What Do YOU Think!?

[Virginia]

I do not wish to incite a riot nor do I look to see anyone outside my window burning their bra. I am not nearly as articulate as many of my sisters here, so before you try and drag me off to the wood-shed --- again, or have me banned from the forum, please read and reread this and tell me honestly how you feel. It will go no further than this forum.

Saturday, July 21 is the annual Equality Virginia meeting at Virginia Commonwealth College in Richmond. This is the (to the best of my knowledge) the political aspect of the GLBT in Virginia. SL and I plan to attend. Just this evening I got an Email for a member of the "James River Trans-Sexual" organization. It is primarily a support group for those entertaining or actually in the midst of transitioning and it is "somewhat" a state supported organization. The Email referenced the District of Columbia TG organization which is very politically active and have achieved some landmark legislative goals. She was asking for my support in becoming supportive of such activity in the Commonwealth. I pointed out that the "EV" meeting was coming up this Saturday and I would rather wait and see how "we" = crossdressers, FI's' TS and TG were treated before I would commit. My being a NOTS (yet another slot on the CD continuum), this has great meaning to me as well!

I have thought about this for a while and as I see it, there are two types of crossdressers, all things being equal. Those who dress and go out in public and those that don't!

Now the question and as I see it it is applicable only to crossdressers, not TS, TG, NOTS but just as (sic) my definition above states.

Why would crossdressers need the support of a political action committee??

Case in point as you are all aware, we are making inroads into the Gay/Lesbian community as they make gains now without getting their heads bashed in. A lot of the "old-timers," i.e., the pioneers for "their" movement still hold a grudge against us for riding their coattails but not being willing to "fight in the streets!"

So the question remains, "Why would we, who either "hide in the closet" (no offense intended) or those who dress and go out with the desire just to pass and not receive any recognition, why would we and ONLY WE need to be recognized in a political action committee or even need such support? What would it accomplish??"

Virginia

[DonnaT]

Well, we would like to be free from discrimination based not only on gender identity, but also on gender expression. Imagine being dressed, at the mall, and not having access to the restroom consistent with your gender expression.

Not everyone is comfortable walking into a mens room while in a short skirt and high heels.

Or trying to rent a hotel room for a weekend getaway, enfemme.

Note that there are a number of public 'accomodations' that could be cut off to the CD just based on how they are dressed.

Imagine getting fired because you are a CD, even though you've never dressed enfemme at work.

There are many documented cases where social antagonism against gender variant (including transgender) individuals and their families, has led to many being denied and fired from a job, harassed in the workplace, faced with a “glass ceiling,” harassed and faced with eviction by their landlords, steered away from certain areas when looking for a home, denied rooms in a hotel, refused service in a restaurant, given inadequate medical care and otherwise treated as second-class citizens solely because of their gender identity and expression.

[Virginia]

Donna, Does this mean you will be there with us on Saturday?? You know we would love to have you! Heck, we may even be able to get you elected to some political office! We'd love to see you anyway!!!

Virginia

[DonnaT]

No can do, Virginia. My wife's already got plans for me. Especially after being unavailable the last two weekends.

[ShamrockFaerie(SO)]

Virginia - I am involved with HRC because I am bisexual, and they also work toward equality for transgendered people. I notice that you do note the hesitancy of the G/L community to accept CDers.... They are also hesitant to accept bisexuals. But HRC seems to be rather al-encompassing, so that's the PAC I choose to support with my money and time.

I think gays and lesbians are right to some extent.... MOST CDers are not gay and should not be included in a "gay rights" organization. Just as most bisexual people have different discriminiation issues, so do CDers. But right now, the gay and lesbian community is opening the eyes of many Americans to alternative lifestyles of ALL stripes, and that's important. So yes.... we bisexuals and CDers DO NEED that platform.

Bisexual people recieve discrimination from all sides. We feel as though we belong to both the straight AND the gay communities, but neither community accepts us. Many people argue that bisexual people "try to have it both ways" or simply can't make up our minds about who we want to sleep with. Many TS and CDs hear the same arguments and the same type of ignorance. Obviously, sexual identity is much more complicated than a "decision" one makes. But somehow, even the gay and lesbian community has trouble wrapping their brains around that.

Do I think the transgendered/crossdressing community NEEDS an advocacy group? Absolutely. As Donna previously mentioned, there are many areas where strides can and should be made with respect to gender identity. But I don't think the answer is "riding the coattails" of the gay and lesbian community. Just as I believe bisexuality needs representation seperate from that community, so I also believe that the transgendered community has different issues and different concerns that could be better represented by an advocacy group devoted specifically to them.

Anyone want to start one?

-Tiffany

[Carol Ann]

Virginia and friends,

To me this is a hard one as I really had to think about it. As long as society will not and does not accept any of us I don't care how much support we get, it will never go anywhere.

Now there are a few places in the world were we are excepted or a better word is IGNORED. Case in point, I live 32 years in New Orleans where CDing is as common as the rain and people don't pay you no mine they just ignore you and walk right pass you. Me I want the freedom to walk down any street and go into any store wearing a dress or what ever and be treated like any other person. Oh I'm sorry there are a lot of girls who can do this because they pass with little or no trouble but the average CDer can not and will be laugh at or even run out of town and most likely lose their job and friends.

So I guess I ride the fence on this one as I don't believe any stance will help.

[SilverLady(SO)]

Sorry, Carol Ann, but I have to disagree with you on this . . . just take a look at the gays and lesbians out-and-about in society. They were in a similar position not so long ago, about how society in general viewed them, and look at all the progress they've made! True, it's not the same as comparing apples to apples, but they had to fight to get where they are now, and much more is needed to be done.

DonnaT and Tiffany have said it best . . . we need to fight discrimination based on gender-identity as well as gender-expression.

Virginia, hon, I'm with you on this, because your fight is also my fight!

Love ya all!!

- SL

[DonnaT]

I think gays and lesbians are right to some extent.... MOST CDers are not gay and should not be included in a "gay rights" organization.

The problem, as I see it, isn't the issue of 'gay rights', but instead is an issue of 'equal rights'.

When considering all things that should be equal, we are all in the same boat. Even marriage, as some states recognize the gender change and some don't.

Note also that the gay rights movement started on the coattails of the transgendered by way of the Stonewall riots, and another I can't remember the name of.

As long as society will not and does not accept any of us I don't care how much support we get, it will never go anywhere.

So I guess I ride the fence on this one as I don't believe any stance will help.

Actually, there have already been a number of changes. Legislation that has passed in several states (and most recently: Iowa, Colorado, Vermont and Oregon) as well as several cities that ban discrimination towards other based on gender identity and/or gender expression.

With an additional 80 cities and counties having enacted gender-inclusive nondiscrimination laws, more than one-third of the U.S. population is covered by such protections.

Nearly 200 major corporations and scores of colleges and universities have also adopted gender-inclusive policies in recent years affirming the basic right of fair treatment for all, whether or not they meet ideals of masculinity or femininity.

http://www.gpac.org/gpac/news.html?cmd= ... sgnum=0678

[Tekla]

To the degree that CD has to do with differing perceptions of sex, sexuality and gender conformity, then I think we are a pretty good fit there. Political change is all about gaining allies, people who support you even if that issue is not their issue.

And that is to a large degree the community we came out of, like it or not. The places that accepted us were largely gay - or at least 'gayish' venues. Moreover in both the Compton's Cafeteria riot and the Stonewall riot, the two events that began the gay liberation movement were CD/TG based.

In San Francisco, in the streets of the Tenderloin, at Turk and Taylor on a hot August night in 1966, Gays rose up angry at the constant police harassment of the drag-queens by the police. It had to be the first ever recorded violence by Gays against police anywhere.

The Stonewall riots were a series of violent conflicts between New York City police officers and groups of gay and transgender people that began during the early morning of June 28, 1969, and lasted several days. Also called the Stonewall Rebellion or simply Stonewall, the clash was a watershed for the worldwide gay rights movement, as gay and transgender people had never before acted together in such large numbers to forcibly resist police.

Since that time much has changed. From open hostility on the part of the NYPD and the SFPD, those departments now have gay and lesbian officers, and are trained by TG persons in TG community relations while still at the academy. As noted, many states, corporations and localities have sought to protect TG persons and that is all to the good. Far from the 'special rights' that some claim, they are just everyone's right to hold a job, rent a house, live their life.

[Amanda Barber]

So the question remains, "Why would we, who either "hide in the closet" (no offense intended) or those who dress and go out with the desire just to pass and not receive any recognition, why would we and ONLY WE need to be recognized in a political action committee or even need such support? What would it accomplish??"

Virginia

When your landlord finds out about your hidden crossdressing and evicts you because its falls through the cracks as to what is listed as defined discrimination under fair housing and HUD or when your out and DON'T PASS for whatever reason and get the hell beaten out of you, end up in the hospital and its listed as "agrivated assault" and not a felony hate crime so the attacker is out in 30 days with fines. you can sit and whine about how you don't need any support.

[Virginia]

Amanda, honey, I am taking a leap of faith here in that I am "assuming" you are NOT directing your post to/at me personally.

Since SL and I and a couple of others of our ilk will be attending the political rally on Saturday, and based on the recent advertisements "hundreds of ............... from around the commonwealth with be there to share," I am looking for input as to how to best position us on the forum/agenda and stating where we are coming from, so to speak, and what we would like to have in the manner of support as Tekla eluded to in her post.

I will keep you all posted as to how all this turns out.

Love,

Virginia

PS: Amanda, this girl = moi = Virginia, two things. In my HS yearbook, under my name it is written, "It is not good to wake a sleeping lion."

What I keep inside is simply the quote of Dr. David Banner, "The Hulk" - "Don't make me angry, you won't like me when I'm angry!"

[Tekla]

So, get a copy of a bunch of the TG laws that have been passed and go from there. No need to reinvent the wheel. Some of this is as old as 20+ years now, and it has been researched, been through courts, been worked out in real life and with real people. Learn from them.

[Amanda Barber]

Amanda, honey, I am taking a leap of faith here in that I am "assuming" you are NOT directing your post to/at me personally.

Maybe not at you directly, but directly at the question you asked.