Thus saith the, the, the __________ fill in the blank!

[Virginia]

Well, you can do your own detective work as I will not mention names, but the clues are here on the forum.

SL and I (en drab, for various reasons) attended a memorial service today for the child of one of our members.

The preacher (and I use the word advisedly) had several sheets of paper that he said had been given to him by the mother of the deceased. It is my considered opinion that he had not perused the "document" prior to rising to the pulpit to read it, and perhaps he had.

I will try to be as general as I can about this, but for those of us who have experienced the throes of justice under the adage of "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned." Then you can well identify with from whence I come.

Our sister, who is in the process of parting ways with her spouse, was not only castigated at least four times directly in this manifesto, but the fact that the soon to be "ex" had previously "outed" her to any and everyone that she knew, and the "preacher" is known to have expressed his disdain for "us" as well, all came to a head at this "memorial service" for the now deceased child of this couple.

In another thread I said that few things shock me, well this is the exception, I was actually shocked by what was said, not necessarily written as it was written by the "scorned" party of this pair. That the "preacher" had not read it, or had and was party to this Baptist attempt at excommunication, lends further credence to my assessment of the hypocrisy of the church. Now, following Danielle's "Theory of Beliefs", and assuming that the "ex" had outed our sister to everyone that was there (about 50+ attendees), then they would have had to be complete idiots to not understand what was being said.

The preacher evidently forgot it was a memorial service and started preaching like it was Sunday morning. His tirade about it being good to be a hypocrite for going to church almost made me stand up and yell, "That's something that I would not brag about!!!!!"

Anyway, ladies, there is a moral here --- I will leave it up to you to figure it out.

Love you all,

Virginia

[Jennifer M]

I agree with you Virginia. Organized religion of any faith is nothing more than brain washing. I am agnostic, I beleive something greater than all of us is going on but it is not found in a building once a week.

The really sad part of your story seems to be that the child's death has become secondary to which gender someone identifies with. It turns my stomach to know that some people can behave this way.

[Sally]

There’s so much that could be said about this sort of thing, but I know that the majority of us would all be thinking along the same lines, but my number one concern above all else in a case like this is, where was the respect for the dead, how low can a parent go to score a hate point? I know it’s common place for parents who are separated to sometimes use their children as ‘tools’ to hurt each other, but, I’d suggest one could not go much lower than this. An act such as this says it all about the person who instigated the public outing process, and for a servant of God to be a party to such a public process leaves a lot to be desired about him also.

It’s a sad world we live in, and sometimes one wants to separate themselves completely from those who we should call fellow human beings ( for want of better words at times).

Seeing things like this happen really spoils what was shaping up to be a nice day.

Kind Regards and my sincerest and deepest sympathy to the aggrieved parent.

Sally.

[Penni SO]

Hi ya all,

For just one moment for their lovely daughter you would think that this woman could just let go of her hate and spite.

It takes 2 people to create such a wonderful person, a daughter who obviously loved her parents very much, but also a daughter who loved her Father for who he was.

This is a time that people bond together and forget their own concerns, but concentrate on sharing and showing their love for their daughter.

This behavoiur has saddened me, and my love and support goes forth to your sister.

TAKE YOUR ARMS AND HOLD YOUR SISTER TIGHT, FOR SHE NEEDS YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.

HUGS from Penny, Perth Western Australia

[Merinda]

What an absolute disgrace from a (so-called) man of God

This preacher should be strung upsidedown from the top of the nearest power pole

This is about the loss of a precious life , not time for him to vent his anti TG religious goppltygook .

[Carolynn]

I am sorry that the incident happened. I realize there are people who do believe in and need to believe in the presence of a higher power in order to cope with daily living and sense of mortality. However, organized religion is about power, money and institutionalized bigotry.

Put as simply as possible, Organized Religion is not our friend.

[Maria]

A memorial service to honor the deceased is a time for healing, not a time for spreading the fires of hatred.

I am an athiest, but I respect everyone, regardless of their personal beliefs and lifestyle. It would be a better place if people could set aside their differences of opinion and get along together. Some people, such as the preacher, will never learn. The preacher should be excommunicated for his actions. No one has the right to be condemmed for being transgendered.

Maria

[Anita]

Penni wrote:

For just one moment for their lovely daughter you would think that this woman could just let go of her hate and spite.

I'm seeing that that is not always the case when it comes to transgender. I see it in a TG friend's wife--she hates this so much that her methods of fighting for custody are getting in the way of her being a good parent.

I'm not trying to excuse anyone here. What it made me realize is that deeply religious people may--and I say may--see what we do as so evil that they must do everything they can to fight against us. I suspect that is what my friend's wife may think. If you are fighting Hitler, than nothing is out of bounds. You do whatever you have to do to defeat the enemy. This is the only way I can explain some of the things that my friend's wife does.

No matter what a person might think of organized religions, the majority of people who follow them try to live what they consider 'decent' lives, and that would include respect at a memorial service. So if someone is stepping over the bounds of good behavior at a time like this, it says to me they're being blinded by something--and it may be this "fight evil at any cost" idea.

[SilverLady(SO)]

What an absolute disgrace from a (so-called) man of God

This preacher should be strung upsidedown from the top of the nearest power pole

This is about the loss of a precious life , not time for him to vent his anti TG religious goppltygook .

Hi, all -

Actually, neither the preacher nor the "ex" vented any "anti TG religious goppltygook" and they could have done so . . . in this regard, they were being very proper, courteous, and respectful. However, knowing the background and the current situation between the CD and the soon-to-be-ex wife, it was all the pot-shots that were being taken at the CD (by the "ex") in her "manifesto" that really peeved us to no end . . . that, and all the hell-fire-and-brimstone coming from the preacher (he must have forgotten this wasn't a Sunday service). The pot-shots were subtle, but they were there . . . and I'm sure that we were not the only ones who realized what was going on.

Virginia and I were literally biting our tongues during the service . . . and the only reason we didn't jump up and "call out" the preacher and the "ex" was out of respect for our friend. There was no reason for the preacher to have read what was written by the "ex" verbatim, he could easily have left out those pot-shots without any hardship at all . . . but he didn't, and he has no excuse that would redeem him in our eyes.

The service could have been much worse, but it wasn't . . . for that, we're all grateful.


- SL

[Merinda]

must have mis-interpreted when I read it

thanks for the clarification silverlady

[ShamrockFaerie(SO)]

As the daughter of a United Methodist minister AND the partner of a CD, I am extremely offended by the whole tone of this.

Look, just because one vindictive and hateful woman brought her hate and disdain into God's house and employed some pretty horrible measures to humiliate her partner, that doesn't mean that all organized religion advocates bigotry and hate.

Take this situation for what it is..... a sad, pathetic woman who just lost her child lashing out at everyone around her. And a narrow minded bigot (the preacher) who happened to have a platform for hate that day.

Not all Christians are mindless, bigoted sheep. Most Christians follow the teachings of CHRIST (Judge not, lest ye be judged..... Love your neighbor as yourself.... Turn the other cheek.... etc etc etc.), not those of the "christian right". Unfortunately, there are misguided christians who simply don't get it. But you'll find that in any walk of life. In short, this isn't about organized religion or Christianity specifically, but about one family's pain.

My husband and I don't go to church anymore because this area is filled with intolerance and hate.... It's not about faith, but about community. I still study the Bible every day and I still pray. I sing songs about Jesus to my daughter and talk to her about God and His all encompassing love. I do not allow my daughter to be exposed to Pat Robertson or anything of the sort. But I think it's important for her to have a foundation of faith, so I expose her to "brain washing" as it's been called in this thread by teaching her about my beliefs and my faith. I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. But we should always teach our children the truth as we understand it, and the truth is that God loves us all, no matter what clothes we wear or who we are sexually attracted to or what we do for a living. That's Christianity. Not what was experienced at this memorial service.

-Tiffany

[Virginia]

Since I started the thread, and it was not intended to start a discussion of religious tolerance or lack thereof, I will say that the members of this forum are all entitled to their opinions and in most instances we are able to keep them civil, and most of us actually learn from other view points. They may not "convert" us, but we are open-minded enough to consider other views and that shows the maturity of this sorority!!!!

Tiffany, you are a good mother and I am sure a lot of us admire the way you choose to raise your children. Most, if not all of us, subscribe to the "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" whether you attribute this to the Bible or just common sense. I think that is all anyone can ask of our fellow man. A little understanding, a helping hand with our burden, once in a while.

Thanks to all of you, I love you!!!!

Virginia

[Absaroka]

I thought Anita's insight was very good. There are those who really do think of our ideas as being as evil as those of the Nazis. And we all know how the plea for open mindedness can be abused- look at all the bigots decrying the prejudice against bigots.

THat being said it would seem to me that the minister perhaps just didn't realize who he was preaching to or failed to remember what the occaision was. It's really a shame. A memorial service has the opportunity to be a time of great healing and uplift and it sounds like he squandred that opportunity. I read this post again today and thought of the memorial service I went to yesterday. It was for someone who died at the end of a long and good life (my father in law) and people went away afterwards feeling good about the entire thing. Feeling very good actually. It did wonders for my wife. Again what a shame that the minister squandered the opportunity.

As for hypocrites, well if they were perfect they wouldn't need to go to church now would they?

Be all that as it may. I'm a Christian and I try to avoid situations like that-I've been exposed to enough hellfire and brimstone to open a volcano store.

Absaroka

[Emily Ann Brown]

I have held my tongue till now hoping when I was calm again I could say what I was feeling without being mean spirited and nasty. Let's see if I can now............

Thank you Virginia and Silver Lady. Outside of four of my daughter's friends and my ex-secretary (all who know and give me minor support) you two were the only real supporters I had there. I think you accurately knew how I felt that day. My daughter WAS my biggest supporter, and the EX knows it. She took me shopping and went clubbing with me. She took my side when the hell came (and it came often). She was a member of that church but had not been there to worship in a year because of it's support for my EX and not me. None of that got mentioned did it? Didn't expect it would.

I praise the preacher for NOT reading everything that was written on those pages. When he first announced he was gonna read something my EX had written my ex secretary said she thought "Run fast Em !" I did consider it, but knew that moment was for my daughter's memory, so I sat firm. Character comes out during adversity, lack of character does as well.

God has a funny sense of humor. Six years ago when I finally realized why I was miserable all my life and never felt like I fit in.....I was a minister (still am, just not "official" anymore....you can figure that out for yourself). Imagine one day realizing you are one of the team you have been playing hard against. It has been a long journey to accepting who I am and re-establishing my relationship with my Creator. But, I am here.

Let me publicly state that the EX did me a big favor by outting me. It has freed me from the mental weight of "what will the kids and friends think and say?". I know what they think now....and it isn't all bad, and I am beyond that weight of guilt and uncertainty.

One thing I learned through my daughter's passing.....I had much support and love shown to me when I needed it. And 90% of it came from the CD/TG community. We ARE a family and need to always remember that, and act like one!

I love you all,
Emily Ann

[KathyB]

It's a shame someone can't be adult enough to put aside their personal agendas during such a difficult time. But I understand it all too well. My first wife and her attorney alleged horrible things about me in court during our separation, things that had nothing to do with crossdressing. Of course they were absolutely untrue, and the judge didn't buy it for a moment. He could see my love for my daughter and realized I wasn't even remotely that sort of person. But for years as my daughter grew up, my ex used her repeatedly as a pawn against me. What sort of person puts their personal bitterness ahead of their own children? I'll never understand it, that's certain.

I'm so sorry you lost someone who loved and supported you so deeply. I'm even more sorry you're having to deal with it all. You have all the love, understanding, and support I can possibly offer.