Been trying for a week now to word this.... (Strong Topic)

A 'round table' for CDs, TGs and GG/SOs to talk with each other. We're all in this together, so let's make the most of it.

Moderators: KimberlyS, Eileen (SO)

Loretta Ann
Permanently Banned
Posts: 2199
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by Loretta Ann »

Hi again Shannon,

I respect you for bringing this issue to the front, and in all fairness I believe some CDs have contributed to this, with statements like;
We feel that SO input is solid gold!
I have never thought that way, although some SOs have indeed contributed very much here, and I would hate to see those who do leave. And I am not implying that those who don't should. I acknowledge there are some who need to feel welcome enough here, so that they will stay and receive the support they need.

There have been times when I have felt like I was walking on egg shells when responding to an SO. And quite frankly with some of them I have waited (some times a long time) until I was able to find other ways to confront an issue that I believed was important. And I am all right with that, As there seems to be an unspoken rule that says don't hurt an SO they might leave.

I can see where some CDers could feel like that is kind of like holding them hostage.

Just some more of my thoughts about this. I do not personally have an issue with any of them (SOs) here.

Love Darlene.
Kay(SO)
E-mail address not valid - Contact Admin
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:03 am
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kay(SO) »

I'm not sure where to start but feel compelled to say something here. There's so much to this thread and so many things that have already been offered. I feel that I want to be honest and forthcoming yet like I might need to tread lightly. I hate that feeling... okay here goes.

Shannon, I guess I feel a little bit confused. Are you upset because Sharon's words/feelings (and I'm assuming she is expressing true feelings that she has) are something you weren't aware of?

Or are you upset because of how other's here might view you based on her words?

Perhaps it's both, plus the fact that other's have made comments about you when they don't know you? The responses we give are usually based on the information we're given.

I think you stated that there's no truth in what Sharon wrote as to how you treat her or whether or not you "force" anything on her. I'm just wondering if at times that's how it FEELS to her.

I know for myself, I can't blame my husband for my position when it comes to CDing and I would never blame him for being a CDr as I don't view it as being his fault. It just is what it is and he didn't ask for it. And I do know the shame and guilt he experiences. He hasn't ruined my life. If I'm here it's because I am choosing to be here.

Do I sometimes do things regarding CDing that I'd rather not do? You bet. Do I feel it's like I'm being dishonest? Absolutely not. It's all part of the give and take. All part of the compromise and trying so hard to meet each other's needs, which is what relationships are about.

Could I easily live without CDing in my life? In a heartbeat. Most of us are here because of all of the other qualities that you possess that we love so very much. Some of us do hate Cding but still choose to be here and live with it and you. Because we love you. I know that my husband doesn't love EVERYTHING about me either. It's not realistic to think that he would. God knows that we all have our own faults and oddities.

I'm sorry that you felt hurt by Sharon's and other's words. If that's how your wife feels then perhaps you two need to talk about it some more. I know you said it in anger and hurt but your last comment about not seeing any reason to CD again reminded me of a child who gets mad on the playground and says, "Im taking my ball and going home." I had to smile when I read that statement. And I'm not making fun just saying that it wasn't really a realistic comment anyway since CDing is a part of who you are.

To close, I want to thank you for having this forum. I love being here and have always treasured the fact that we're all here together to learn from each other and to see different perspectives, from CD'r to SO. It has helped me and I hope that I have in turn helped others here. Oh yea, one other thing. I am assuming your point of bringing up that you started and pay for hosting this site was another dart to put out there since you are hurting. It was kind of like you were trying to throw it in someone's face. I'm not sure who's? Anyway, I for one will be forever grateful that you started this group and hope that it stays in place. I also hope that you and Sharon can mend whatever happens as a result of this whole incident. It is obvious to me that no matter how difficult the journey, you both love each other greatly. Hugs to all,

Kay(SO)
User avatar
CJ
Miss Diamond Goddess
Posts: 3562
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:12 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Post by CJ »

Hi all,

Okay, here's a trick question: what's the purpose of blue?

The answer, of course, is: there is no answer, because this is a non-question, a question with no debatable answer.

Shannon was expressing himself, sharing his own feelings, in much the same way Sharon does, in other threads. The fact that he did so in a somewhat petulant tone doesn't invalidate what he's feeling. His feelings are neither right nor wrong (and neither are those of Sharon nor of any other forum member). How we choose to act upon our feelings more often determines how successful we are at living with other people than does the mere "feeling" of those feelings.

A few things have been said in this thread that bear repeating. We ought to make an effort in letting others know how we feel and, especially, in inviting others to let us know how they feel. Anita has a point; mindreading is the stuff of fantasy. We will not know how another person feels if he or she does not let us know--by telling us. Behaviour is an unreliable guide to another person's feelings. What we do is often at odds with what we feel... sometimes because we can't sit on our own anger, sometimes because we deliberately want to hurt another (even though, deep down inside, we don't want to), and sometimes because we think we can make others understand our pain by spreading that pain around. This doesn't usually work very well. Not if honest and open communication is our intent.

Shannon,

You're right. We don't really know who you are. But it's certainly not because we don't (or wouldn't) want to. My take is (and this is certainly not a criticism) that we'd get a better idea of the fullness of you if you participated more often on the forum. Not just in "defensive" mode, but in "offensive" mode, as well (and I'm sure you can "offend" with the best of us :P ). There are at least two ways in which this forum can be yours. One, because your name is on the founder's list. Two, because you gave it the flavour of your own being, not just by making the guidelines we must follow, but because we have a much clearer sense of who you are, as a person. This implies that you actually make an effort to let yourself be known. Contrary to what you may think (and to how things may look), there aren't that many people here who are so judgmental as to dismiss out of hand your own story, merely for not having heard it yet. We ask nothing better from the founder of a CD forum than for him to share with us what being a crossdresser means to him and how he tries to incorporate his singular nature in his daily life (his marriage included).

I know you don't dress often (or haven't dressed in a while). You're still one of us. By saying this, I'm not trying to drag you down; I'm raising you up. Your experience of your own self matters every little bit as does Sharon's of her own self or as does that of anyone here regarding their own understanding of themselves. In the matter of feelings, there is no right and no wrong. On the other hand, if you want us to have a clearer picture of the details of your life (and that's a huge "if" on a public forum), then participate, for land's sake! Again, Shannon, please don't take this as a criticism. It isn't.

As for the matter of the inaccessibility of the SO's Only section, well, it's accessible to anyone who has eyes to read. Yes, there are times when I'd like to comment directly on stuff that's being said in there but, if I really need to, I know that I can start a new topic as a response in the "Togetherness" section. This kind of "tennis match" is open to all; all you need is a keyboard. There's a very good reason the SO's section was segregated: CD's continuously intruded on the conversations SO's were trying to have amongst themselves. I know the point of this forum was to bring us all together (to a certain extent) but men and women haven't really changed over the centuries; they each sometimes need their own space. We should consider it an awesome privilege already that SO's continue to post even while knowing that we CD's are looking over their shoulders. Isn't this the greatest opportunity to know and to find out what many of our loved ones truly feel about us? Take this ball and run with it, folks. Rather than be incensed and try to censure what happens in the SO section, we should welcome it (this, by the way, is what the person meant when she wrote that "SO input is solid gold here"); it's another way in which we can come to make certain necessary realizations, not only about who we are, but about the ways in which who we are affects those we love. Who the heck wouldn't want that? That Kay, for example, or Darlene, feel they have to walk on eggshells when expressing their feelings regarding CD-SO difficulties is unfortunate, I think. It's a bit like having a conversation where the two participants have their backs turned to each other; there are things we'll miss, for sure.

Too often, we (and, yes, I include SO's in this as well) "react" instead of acting; we go towards another with our shield raised and our spear at the ready--even in conversations we want to be a part of. Go figure. Instead, why not just reach out and say, "here, take my hand; even though I don't know, at this very moment, whether you want to caress me or slap me silly, I want you by my side... just because I love you."

Trust me, sometimes this single soul pines for the vicissitudes of couplehood.

Love,
CJ

P.S.
Nobody is screwing up anybody else's life. We do that all on our very own, to our very selves, by refusing to make the choices we should in order to become happy. Gosh, I sound like Darlene. :wink:
Image
Jassmine(SO)
Miss Golden Goddess
Posts: 626
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:13 am
Location: Irving

Post by Jassmine(SO) »

Howdy Y'all ..o)..

CJ Wrote:
Nobody is screwing up anybody else's life. We do that all on our very own, to our very selves, by refusing to make the choices we should in order to become happy.
!!!yes!!! The only person responsible for their own happiness, is themselves. Noone can make anyone else truly happy. True happiness and contentment comes from within.

*Hugs & Love* @->->- *^^*
Blessings Eternal, Jassmine

"Love is unconditional acceptance. That quality is also our essential nature, who we really are."
--Peter Shepherd
Loretta Ann
Permanently Banned
Posts: 2199
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by Loretta Ann »

Hi again everyone,

I stand in support of what Shannon has attempted to accomplish in this thread. This is one of those issues that I have waited a long time to confront.
Are you upset because Sharon's words/feelings?
I think she has made it quite clear that is not the situation, by her statement;
Believe me I am not at all upset by your comments in particular Honey(SO)..... I am however surprise and hurt by my impression that when ever an SO here says anything, it is taken as Gospel.... there is no doubt that the CD is wrong and the SO is right..... The CD is immediately considered to be wrong. Is that not the tone you set in your reply to Sharon(SO)'s post?????
Sorry ladies but some of you do tend to come across like that IMO.

Shannon's contributions in this thread particularly have given me a lot of insight into her that I did not previously have. I suspect that she is wiser than most are willing to give her credit for.

Although she has had some excellent help in running this forum, It takes more than meets the eye to pull off what she has been able to accomplish with this forum. That kind of thing does just not happen by itself, yet she gives us much of the credit for the quality of this place.

I view what Shannon has attempted to address in this thread as being done in an offensive" mode. I get that impression from reading between the lines.

I am not one to chase after solid gold, I am more interested in the little nuggets that I have received from both CDs and SOs on this forum. Both have equal in put in my mind. After all what is equality all about anyway?

Hi CJ,

Seriously... you have thrown some little nuggets into your post here.
Less seriously :wink:
Okay, here's a trick question: what's the purpose of blue?

Okay here is your trick answer, Blue is for boys.

*;*;* Darlene.
User avatar
Celia
Moderator and "Princess of Chat"
Posts: 1832
Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 12:32 am
Location: Western Washington

Post by Celia »

I do understand the need, CJ, for for the SO's section to be exclusively for them. It doesn't take any imagination to see how much CD partication (and how relatively little SO participation) there would be in the SO forums if they were open to CD posting, and a support group generally caters to people in a common predicament. The restriction is a necessary compromise.

It does feel a little strange, nonetheless. The website is called Crossdressers-Forum.com. Formally, though, SO's have privilege here that crossdressers don't: they can generally post where we can; we can't necessarily post where they can. I should emphasize that I'm not complaining - I don't think there was any intention of giving SO's privileged status, and they didn't ask for it: the privilege is an unavoidable side effect of something that needed to be done. Yet I do feel a little strange about this situation and always have. If only in a relatively superficial sense, things seem just slightly out of balance. Am I simply noting that we live in an imperfect world? Probably. :)

Yours,
Celia

PS-
I hope no one interprets this as some sort of twisted cry for a CD-only subforum here: we don't need one. 8)
Gelinda
Miss Platinum Goddess
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:31 pm

Post by Gelinda »

Maybe it should be that CD's can't see the SO section. Gee
* * Email address not current as of 05-05-2009. Please contact SilverLady(SO) immediately! See http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... php?t=9237 for further information. Thank You!! * *
Missy
Miss Silver Goddess
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:54 pm
Location: US

Post by Missy »

Hi Shannon,

Being a relative newcomer to this forum, I have tried to avoid controversial posts, but I guess I'm over that now. In view of the fact that I consider this forum to be a second home and those here to be friends, I feel it necessary to post my views. Some who read this will, in all probability, not like it. There's nothing to agree or disagree with -- it's just my opinion.

First, my wife and I thank you very much for creating a place that has been of immense help to us. It was largely due to this forum that she went from "almost throwing up at the sight of me putting on high heels", to a person who insists that I CD on a regular basis, and drags me to the sales to try to find me something new. I try to reciprocate in as many ways as I can. I believe this was one of the purposes of the forum. It has, apparently, not been very successful with some of the other SOs. Sharon may be included in that group.

I agree with others above who have spoken about the SOs, and the interactions between us and them on this forum, that problems do exist. It appears to me that the SO section has become a welcome place mostly for those who want to complain (hereinafter referred to as the "negativites") about having unknowingly married a CDer. I suspect if the truth were known that they would probably have married them anyway, even if they had known in advance. It has not been, for some, a learning place but a venting place with no attendant learning, adaptation or apparent attempt to adapt. As soon as an SO complains about something, others are quick to jump in and try to validate that person's complaints. There is very little discussion between them and the accepting SOs, because they don't want to hear anything positive. A case in point which has bothered me for two months now is one involving my wife, who is a very positive person. In the beginning, she enjoyed the forum very much, posted a lot, and hoped to contribute to helping others adjust to their perceived problem. In order to do this, she was trying to stimulate an increase in the activity and participation. While doing so, she received a pm from an administrator, stating that one of her comments was "out of bounds" for this area, apparently because she mentioned something I had said. That was offensive and insulting. Administrator or not, he should not be passing judgment on what an SO wants to post in her area. After thinking it over carefully and deciding not to make a public issue out of it, she responded via private message, expressing her indignation, and also sent two successive copies to Sharon to get her comments. As of this date, she has not heard a single word of apology or comment from either one. Considering the rapidity to which the negativites get apologized to, I think she has a right to be insulted, and I believe that this is because she is not considered "one of them". She is perfectly happy, so she tells me, being married to a CDer, and so it appears to her that she does not belong there. She is no longer interested in posting in the SO section, and will only participate in the section for CDers. She is the true “solid gold” referred to above.

Now to the comments made by Sharon that have created this latest firestorm -- I remember some time ago, an innocent comment by a CDer, about having been called a slut by a GG in public. It seems that I added fuel to that fire, by saying that I found his situation humorous. The reaction from the negativites, who took those comments out of context, was immediate and forceful. Their position was further advocated by one or more of our CDers who apparently felt the need to appease them in any way. The irony of these two situations is, that some SOs want to jump on anything that seems to back up their feelings but have completely avoided the fact that Sharon's comments were extremely inappropriate for a forum that is read around the world. Sharon obviously knows that others who read her comments will know the person whom she is talking about. And they were extremely personal comments. I, myself, was embarrassed upon reading them. When I first read her post, I couldn't believe that she was saying those things publicly. I made the brief but obviously erroneous conclusion, that these were things that you and she had discussed previously, and you both were comfortable with her saying that -- apparently not.

I am airing the above in the hope that pointing out these things, though painful for some, will help others see some of the hypocrisy of their actions, and to hopefully, in the long term, improve the atmosphere between SOs and CDs, although I am sure that this post will not do so in the short term. I expect this post will create a lot of steam from the collars of some, but so be it. I personally can take a lot of flak without it bothering me, and I'm sure I'll be hearing about some of what I have said here. That's ok.

Shannon, I don't know you very well, but from what little I have picked up here, I suspect that we have a lot in common, maybe more than you might think. I wish you all the best in your marriage to an obviously fine person who is having a problem adapting to her situation. I would like it very much if we could help Sharon adapt as well as my wife has, and I assure you that we will always be ready to try.

Warmest regards to you and Sharon,


Missy


P.S. Just as I was getting ready to post this I read Gelinda’s latest post, and I believe that Gelinda’s suggestion that the SO section be unviewable by CDs would only promote the delay in acceptance and adaptation by SOs, and probably would not be effective because most CDs and SOs use the same computer anyway.
Kersten Lee
Miss Platinum Goddess
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:05 am
Location: Central Nebraska

Post by Kersten Lee »

Hi All,

This is such an important matter, not only for Sharon and Shannon but for us all.

Gelinda, I have to disagree as I did about Morder. Our journey on earth is about growth, to me. I understand "that" is a personal reflection of my mind alone. It reminds me of a movie quote, "The truth? You can't handle the truth!" What are we if not but children. Are we to remain in grade school forever? (I am speaking of my past). And Sharon and Shannon these comments are not directed at you.

The greatest good about this forum for me is the free exchange of ideas and information. I have been in therapy for 2.5 years now and really am beginning to grasp what seems to be a mundane statement by Jasmine. That is, our happiness and well being is only controlled by the individual. Defining ourselves by what a therapist, wife, friend or evangelist says to us is defying our nature. My happiness whether here, at work or here with friends, is up to me. It has nothing to do with fighting battles, believing one's self is infallible, or being self-centered and arrogant. Believing in myself means to be able to accept happiness and adversity. Believing in myself allows me to listen, learn and understand. Having confidence in myself means I can accept that my wife will be very angry at times with me and talk to friends and neighbors. Friends at work say bad things about me to others, but I know now that none of us are perfect. I know others need to vent at times and so do I, but it does not mean that our wife or husband or friend loves us less or us them.

Hiding SO talk would be such a terrible thing. Talking and reading other wives has given me more help about understanding my wife's feelings. Open and honest talk, freedom of expression here and elsewhere are the only way for each of us to get out of our shells.

I had a bad fight with my wife a couple weeks ago. She said, as have I to her before, You always, since we were married, did da da da. By learned communication techniques in therapy, I was able to draw my wife out for her to explain the behavior that she hated in me. She told me of a terrible thing that I said and did to her in 1982, 3 or 4. It was bad and I appologized to her sincerely. I asked her to forgive me and asked her to put it in the past where it belongs. I also asked her if she got these feelings again, to please talk to me if she felt like I was demeaning her. She told me she would. No guarantees, only the future will tell for each of us.

From my own knowlege and growth, I knew what Sharon was writing about Shannon was not the whole truth. Shannon, Sharon was obviously feeling bad about some things and also the burden of your feminine desires. With the life long social stigma attached to cross-dressing, it will never be the desirable choice for male behavior in the short term. Again how we each deal with the fact that our mate cross-dresses depends on our choice of how we each treat the reality, male and female alike.

Sharon's friends flocked to her side to relate similar feelings to share and know and comfort or give advice to each other. I don't see this as bad. I see the same thing in so many conversations in the CD topics. Every body take a look. Male, female, we really aren't so different. We all want so many of the things in the same ways. How many times have we had discussions about how SO's just don't want to understand us CD's.

What has to be so painful for Shannon and Sharon is the now public nature of their successes and failures. I believe most of us understand and know both of you well enough that these problems are only temporary. I believe each of you are good people and love each other. It has always seemed very clear to me this past year. I don't believe a few words said in pain by Sharon defines Shannon and neither is the obvious pain that Shannon now tells, define all the feelings he has for Sharon.

I do remember many of the loving things you have said about each other.
Be kind and forgive each other.

Love to you both, Life and love are complicated,
Kersten
User avatar
Raven(SO)
Miss Emerald Goddess
Posts: 215
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:01 pm
Location: Lancaster, CA
Contact:

hey

Post by Raven(SO) »

The only person responsible for their own happiness, is themselves. Noone can make anyone else truly happy. True happiness and contentment comes from within.


I agree with jassmine


Raven
Kay(SO)
E-mail address not valid - Contact Admin
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:03 am
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kay(SO) »

This has turned into something that I was hoping it would not and I have to say that I am extremely disappointed yet again. I left this forum awhile back after having been here for some time due to the blatant criticism used rather than the expression of someone's own feelings. There's a huge difference between expressing one's own feelings vs. bashing someone else for having or expressing theirs. Yet, here we are again. For some reason, there are those who simply can't help themselves and feel that's how they need to share their opinions; by putting down others. So, I will say my piece and then decide if I need to leave again or not.

I am extremely bothered by this reference:
It appears to me that the SO section has become a welcome place mostly for those who want to complain.
In fact, this actually makes me quite angry and offended to have my feelings and posts referred to as "complaining". This may simply be expressed as an opinion however it is also extremely judgmental. It also discounts my feelings and every SO who has expressed negative feelings about CDing. I for one, am not here to be judged by anyone, though I guess that's the chance I take in posting at all. The question then to ask myself is; how can I feel safe to share my true feelings in a place where I feel I'm being judged for voicing them? It seems to me that there are some here who haven't a clue what a "support" group is all about. And how we support one another is not through judgment but through trying to understand and validate one another's feelings, whether they are positive OR negative.

It is my understanding that this is THE place where I should be able to "complain" if that's how I'm feeling. What I find difficult is that if I'm not the CDing cheerleader of the year, my feelings are viewed as complaints. The really comical thing is that those who know me here, SO's and CD'rs know how truly supportive I've been to my husband. Just because when I'm having a difficult time, I choose to express it here doesn't mean that I'm not growing or learning from the process.

Okay, let's say I buy that. Well, then I feel that I have every right and reason to complain. And I won't let anyone here or anywhere else for that matter dictate to me how I should or shouldn't feel or how, where and to whom I should or can express those feelings.

I resent this implication as well:
It has not been, for some, a learning place but a venting place with no attendant learning, adaptation or apparent attempt to adapt. As soon as an SO complains about something, others are quick to jump in and try to validate that person's complaints. There is very little discussion between them and the accepting SOs, because they don't want to hear anything positive.


I don't know one single woman on the SO board who hasn't learned or grown from having the opportunity to "bitch" about her experiences or situation related to CDing. Just because I CHOOSE to be with my husband doesn't mean that I always feel good about CDing or that I don't struggle sometimes to find anything positive about it. In truth, there are days when I hate it. Not him but it. So what if those are the days I come here to vent, complain or whatever, as a means of reaching out for support or dealing with my negative feelings?? Other's "jump in to validate the so called complaints because they can or because they have at one point felt the same themselves.

As the for last sentence in that quote, it's simply ridiculous. The discussions the SO's have here are not limited to the "whiny group", excluding anyone who has a positive attitude. I can say this because I have posted here with both attitudes, feelings and moods. If an SO is supportive and positive, she is more than free to express that attitude, feelings and opinion. If she feels left out or not a "part of" the group then she should continue to offer support to those who are continueing to struggle to help them achieve some new level of acceptance. Again, that's the point of the group. How would anyone but me know if I want to hear anything positive or not? Unless there are alot of clairvoyants here, I would expect that unless I've stated this outloud, no one has a clue as to what I WANT to hear or what kind of support I'm looking for.

This whole incident has disgusted me. I have tried extremely hard to understand and share my thoughts, feelings and opinions here because I have been asked to do so on many occasions and been told that I am a valued member of this group. Yet, here I sit devalued by others who cannot possibly begin to understand what I go through on a daily basis being married to a CDr. At least I try to find compassion and comprehend what it's like for all of you and my spouse. I always thought that the point of having a joint group was that it put us all in the position of it being a two way street. Without reciprocity, it leaves me with little else to say here.
I am airing the above in the hope that pointing out these things, though painful for some, will help others see some of the hypocrisy of their actions
Ditto. And the biggest hypocrisy of all is that the majority of your SO's have probably felt just like those of us who "complain" at one point in time.
I expect this post will create a lot of steam from the collars of some, but so be it.


Count me in. -,,-

Kay(SO)
Loretta Ann
Permanently Banned
Posts: 2199
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by Loretta Ann »

Thank you for this post Kay,

When I read Shannon's reply to Honey SO I thought this will be interesting to see where this all goes. I have actually expected an SO to reply as you have here.

First off let me state that you stand out some what from most SOs here, and have been able to contribute in ways many of them appear unable to, and some of us value that contribution.

Before I get into the more serious intent of this post I would like to share something with you all.

A friend of mine recently shared with me that his wife told him that women don't sweat and they don't fart, therefore if she was not allowed to bitch she would explode.

He thought that was precious.
It is my understanding that this is THE place where I should be able to "complain" if that's how I'm feeling.
That is a beautiful Statement Kay one that I agree with. And where is the room for Shannon to do exactly that? Or is that just an exclusive right of SOs?
There's a huge difference between expressing one's own feelings vs. bashing someone else for having or expressing theirs. In fact, this actually makes me quite angry and offended to have my feelings and posts referred to as "complaining"

I wonder how Shannon feels about this very thing happening to her here?
It seems to me that there are some here who haven't a clue what a "support" group is all about.
Sadly I have to agree with you Kay How much support has Shannon received here for her thoughts and feelings?

Or would we rather push her into a corner and say shut up your feelings are not important to us?

Now the rest of this post is to every one. Is Shannon not the same as the rest of us? Does she not have the same right as the rest of us to not be perfect?

Stuff her into a corner and prevent her from expressing herself? Put her into a place where she can not share her feelings with us so that she can not grow? Is that the appreciation she receives for providing this place that we all claim to be so important to us?

It indeed seems that some of us have a lot to learn about support? #-o

Love Darlene.
Kay(SO)
E-mail address not valid - Contact Admin
Posts: 294
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:03 am
Location: North Carolina

Post by Kay(SO) »

I agree with all that you have said. Shannon has the same rights as anyone else here with regard to expressing her thoughts and feelings. My post was not meant to discount that in any way, simply to express my own feelings. I'm glad that Shannon shared. It's the aftermath that I'm disgruntled and disappointed about.

Kay(SO)
User avatar
DonnaT
Miss Great Goddess
Posts: 8222
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:04 am
Location: No. Virginia

Post by DonnaT »

One well known Author recently commented how she and her CDing hubby continue to have arguments related to his CDing. From her writing a book about her and her husband, you'd think that issues we see here all the time would rarely come up. Not so. She still has issues.

But you know what? It is their love for each other that gets them passed the hard times.

Shannon and Sharon have expressed a similar love, so lets not denigrate it by arguing or flaming someone else's posts.

I've found the SO's section to be immensely enlightening and would not want to see it hidden. Nor would I want anyone, anyone, to drop out of this forum just because of one or two non-contructive comments.

It was in the reading of the SO section that I started to also post on this forum.

There is much more good, than bad, in what is written in this Forum, and it has been a big help to many. And probably many many more who have never posted, but instead have dropped by just to read, such as my wife.
DonnaT
User avatar
CJ
Miss Diamond Goddess
Posts: 3562
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:12 pm
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada

Post by CJ »

Hi all,

Hmmm... okay. :-k

Kay,

I totally understand what you're saying. This is what communication is. We have to be receptive, open, and eager to know what another person's needs are and what he or she is feeling at any given point in time. Like you mentioned, reciprocity is key; we'll be more receptive to another's feelings the more we feel we're given the honest opportunity to share our own feelings in manner that's safe, not necessarily from criticism (criticism can be good, if offered in a friendly way), but from the self-righteous judgments of others.

In all the time I've spent on the forum (some 16 months, now), I've often seen SO's tell of the hardships (amongt other things) of being partnered to a CD. But rarely--make that extremely rarely--have I seen an SO being self-righteous and judgmental. Quite the opposite, in fact; even through their own pain, SO's are only too much aware of their partner's own shame-induced suffering, and they never fail to acknowledge it. I, myself, have learned so much from having had an opportunity to peek through a crack in the wall that often separates SO's and their CD'ing mates. The SO sections--and the things that are said therein--are absolutely indispensable and they're what makes this forum truly unique. To put it plainly: we need you.

Which brings me to my central concern. Threatening to leave the forum because you feel that you're not being "heard" here may be the path of least resistance... but is it the most fruitful one? So what if certain people think some SO's are whining? For that matter, so what if certain people think some CD's are whining? One person's whining is another's emotional sharing. Most of us here are here precisely for that emotional sharing--regardless if it should sound whiny to some. Your leaving the forum, Kay, would be as perplexing as, say, Shannon, leaving the forum. Please don't.

When what we say is not being heard as we intend it to be, the answer may reside in our saying it in a different way rather than merely clamming up. If, after having tried this, from several different angles, some people still don't get it, chances are they never will. You can do little else but walk on by. But don't walk out. Or walk away completely. Rest assured that, in this imperfect world, there will always be someone who will take exception not only to what you say but to how you feel, as well. In the end, this is just another wonderful--yes, wonderful--example of our rich diversity. No two of us look alike; no two of us think alike; no two of us feel alike; and no two of us understand, and give meaning to, life in quite the same way. This is a cause for celebration, not despair.

Please hang around, Kay... I've yet to hear fashion tips from you! :wink:

Love,
CJ
Image
Post Reply