Crossdressers-Haven.com

Alright, I need some thoughts and opinions other than my own, because I’ve been chasing circles in my mind.

As I mentioned in my introduction, my boyfriend recently told me, very open and honestly, at the beginning of our relationship, that he enjoys wearing lingerie and other women’s clothing. It took me some time to process that, but once I had that time to understand my own thoughts, I found that it really wasn’t a huge issue for me at all. Still, I felt like I needed someone to talk to that would understand what I was experiencing. Afterall, there aren’t but a few people that would understand how I first felt when my boyfriend told me he wanted to buy inserts to wear in a bra. That is not something I’d feel comfortable talking with my friends about, nor would in good conscience, because it would violate his trust.

I joined this forum for support and I have been amazed at the friendship and understanding I’ve received. I was having a conversation through private message with a board member last night and this person mentioned that s/he thought I should tell my boyfriend that I was a member of this forum. I admit it sounds like a wonderful idea and that one would think he would appreciate my sincere attempt to understand him better.

That being said, my boyfriend has never used the term “crossdresser” when having a conversation with me at all. When he shared that he liked to wear women’s clothing, I was the one that went off in search of answers and discovered the definition of that term, and ended up here. Though he is a crossdresser, judging from past conversations I think he might balk at that label. In his mind I think what he would envision when he thinks of a crossdresser and himself are very different things. He's answered my questions about his dressing, but those questions have mainly related to why, and not so much what he calls himself.

Aside from that, I’m a little concerned he’d misinterpret me joining this group for support. Most people, myself included, have typically thought of support groups as something a person joins to work through a problem, like an addiction. He’s not something I want to work through and he’s not a problem, he’s the man I care about. I came here to be able to talk with likeminded individuals that are experiencing the same things I am. I’m afraid he might misinterpret my intentions and believe that what he told me was so offensive and disturbing that I had to join a support group to work through it.

Does this make any sense to anyone? I feel like it made sense in my mind, but not so much so when I typed it out. It could be that I’m tired from work, or maybe that it really doesn’t make sense. Maybe I’m making mountains out of ant hills.

Is it possible to crossdress and still not see yourself as a crossdresser? Aside from accepting the behavior in yourself, do you have to go through a period of acceptance before you use that term and identify with it? How would you feel if your significant other joined a support group?

I know none of you can answer these questions for my sweetheart, since you’re not him and you’re all different, but any and all thoughts are welcome. Thanks!

well, if you have reservations about him joining, that's OK. You're the one looking for answers/support. If he needed support/help, then you could point him here or another forum. I see no proplem being on separate forums. However, he doesn't sound like he needs help/support, especially since he came out to you straight away.

Yes it possible to crossdress and still not see yourself as a crossdresser? Aside from accepting the behavior in yourself, do you have to go through a period of acceptance before you use that term and identify with it?

It's just a label, and there's no requirement we accept the label. Any label. Many don't.

But anyone who crossdresses is a crossdresser. No period of acceptance required.

How would you feel if your significant other joined a support group?

She did, but never posted. I asked her to post, to talk to other SO's, but she had no interest in doing so.

Since the SO's have a private section, she could easily say what she wanted without me knowing, but she still had no interest.

She did learn a bit from reading, however.

Hi Mary Beth--

Aside from that, I’m a little concerned he’d misinterpret me joining this group for support. Most people, myself included, have typically thought of support groups as something a person joins to work through a problem, like an addiction. ..(edit)

I’m afraid he might misinterpret my intentions and believe that what he told me was so offensive and disturbing that I had to join a support group to work through it.

You know, I've never looked at support groups as a negative thing, but they are where you go when you're troubled about something. I'm thinking of 12-step programs, but I had to run to a TG support group when I first discovered a girl within. I was 49, and had never dealt with such a thing.

So maybe your boyfriend's revelations aren't disturbing, but they're unusual and different from anything you've ever known. That's a reason to go where there are others who understand.

Also, another point comes to me. It may not be disturbing to you, but it's also not something you can talk about to anyone around you. SOs have said this in their posts--the people they confide in, like mothers, close friends, or sisters--they can't talk to about crossdressing, because it's almost always a secret when first disclosed.

So that's a reason to seek like-minded people--this is unusual, and you need others who understand just how unusual it is. I would think your boyfriend might understand that way of looking at it. After all, he knows that he can't talk to anyone else about it, and he knows how isolating that is.

It doesn't have to stay that way, I'll add. Plenty of us on here do talk about it to family and friends. But we don't start out that way.

As for the word crossdresser--yes, he might be touchy about that. It may be an accurate description of what he does, but it's not necessarily what he wants to be known as. You may be sensing that.

Hi Mary Beth,

First, I applaud you for your efforts and your boyfriend is to be held in high esteem for sharing this with you. It is a way of building a strong relationship.

As you know, very few of us are "certified" counselors, we do have a few here but we do have "street smarts" and the been there done that education.

I will take a different tact from my sisters in that perhaps, just perhaps, your boy friend may be having trouble "accepting" this "gift." There are a multitude of things that can contribute to a roller coaster ride for both of you. You are smart enough to start to figure some of those out for yourself.

The, what we refer to as "The Cross Dresser's Continuum" is a very broad and accepting format. My sis, Donna says the term Cross dresser is all encompassing and I guess that can be true to a degree, like a big umbrella, but under that umbrella there are many variations and lots of terms that surface, like "transgendered" "transsexual" and even those have variations. It can take quite a while for some to find where they "fit in" on the continuum and some are not static, but change and move from one place to another as they come to find out more about this "gift."

For lack of a better term I have cooped the term NOTS to describe myself.
NOTS = Non-op transsexual. I feel I have found a balance in my life and it works for me. My feminine aspect and my male aspect seem to get along quite well. When Virginia wants to express her self by dressing there is no arguments she dresses and goes where ever she wants and she is also able to express her self and the feminine characteristics that most of us here admire. That being, the softness, gentleness, kindness, caring, loving, touching, sharing, listening. As it expresses itself though a male, it is amazing to see the responses from people's lives that I touch. I have no plans to have SRS but Virginia is able to express herself as well as most GG's both in her appearance and her attitudes toward others so again I have found that balance.

As for your boyfriend, he may be satisfied to dress at home, never go out and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just give him time to try and accept who he is and learn more about this gift!

Just a question, does he wish for you to call him by a feminine name?

Thanks for sharing with us and hope we can help you both on your ?Magical Mystery Tour!"

Virginia

What we might have here is a problem with labels, one label being the word cross dresser and the other label being support group.

This forum might very well be a support group, but I look at it differently. I see it as a place where people with similar interests come together and socialize. In turn we become friends and as friends do, we help each other when a problem arises in ones life or just answer a question that a friend needs answering.

The word crossdresser can have different meanings to different people. To some, it is an accepted word to describe who they are, this person accepts the word crossdresser and lives his life content. There are some who feel a negative reaction to the word cross dresser even though they themselves wear clothes of the opposite sex. Your BF might be one that views the word cross dresser as a negative term and might not be happy joining a cross dresser forum, even though this forum isn’t used solely by cross dressers, I for one do not use the term cross dresser to describe myself. As Virginia said, there is a transgender continuum where different people fall along different points on the transgender spectrum. I dance in the area of being a transsexual,, being transgender to me is more than just the wearing of female clothes, I want to be a woman,,, well,, inside my head, I am a woman.

I would ask your BF questions about online CD forums, see what his views are. If he’s hostile to these types of forums, then it might not be a good idea for him to join. Just because your BF wears women’s clothes, doesn’t mean that he wants to chat with other Cds. Maybe he is content with dressing as a private matter between you and him. We are all different in our tastes and styles,,, putting us all in a box called Cds just won’t work, some of us live outside the box.

So yes. One can crossdress and not consider themselves to be a cross dresser,, it all depends on how the person uses the labels. One can accept themselves fully and still not consider themselves cross dressers, as long as the person is happy, there is no need to stick a label on them that they don’t want. I am not a crossdreser but I accept fully who I am.

Amelie-Laveau wrote:This forum might very well be a support group, but I look at it differently. I see it as a place where people with similar interests come together and socialize. In turn we become friends and as friends do, we help each other when a problem arises in ones life or just answer a question that a friend needs answering.

Our wonderful 'street philosopher' does it again!!

How did you get to be so smart, Amelie?

((Hugs))

- SL

How did you get to be so smart, Amelie?


When I was young, I'd sit in Tompkins Park in NYC and while there I'd talk to the homeless people, being dressed as a girl sitting in the park was like being a magnet to all sorts of people that wanted to talk. Some of these people were quite smart,, they had no home but they had a brain, why they were there was beyond me. Choice? I learned stuff from them. Well, I hoped I learned some things. They had a keen ability to use reason in their thoughts. But like me, we are all gone from that area, high rents and the Mayors policy to gentrify the area pushed as both out. Maybe they went back to their jobs on Wall Street.

Anyways, I ain't all that smart, people on this forum amaze me with their intelligence.

I agree with Amelie. While I do consider this a support forum it is also a meeting place of friends. A place where people can come and gather that have some interest in Cross Dressing.

Heck if large numbers of football fans can spend large amounts of money to gather at a football game, get drunk and act stupid, i think it is ok for us to gather here.

And Amelie being smart is a very relative thing. Having worked in higher education and working one on one with many professors, it is surprising at how some highly educated people can have great trouble doing basic and everyday things. We are all smart in different ways.

Aside from that, I’m a little concerned he’d misinterpret me joining this group for support.

I commend you for joining. I have asked my wife to join on numerous occasions. She accepted me for a while but lately has turned tables 100% and may leave me because of my dressing.

I had to join a support group to work through it.

I think just being honest about the reason you joined would be acceptable. I know if my SO told me the same, I wold like that. My wife has had many questions about crossdressing, mostly dealing with being gay or bisexual. I am neither but she looks at all forums as being a place to find another person for sex. I have tried to tell her otherwise, especially this wonderful site, but it is useless.

Is it possible to crossdress and still not see yourself as a crossdresser?

although I've dressed on and off for 35 years, sometimes spacing years between dressing. I always considered myself a crossdresser even if I wasn't wearing anything. As I grew older it became stronger.

How would you feel if your significant other joined a support group?

I would embrace it and hopefully it could become a springboard for future conversations. This forum is awesome and without a doubt an asset to me and many others here.

The reason I joined this, and a few other forums, was to make new friends with a common interest. I've had no problems with my being a CD so support was far from any need. However, I've learned quite a bit, especially when the SO section was open to reading for a while.

Sorry to hear things on the home front aren't cool right now Carla. Been on that trip a few times. Next weeks our 33rd anniversary. Talk to her, about everything, especially why y'all fell in love in the first place. How being trans made you the person she fell in love with even if she didn't know it.

I hate labels!

Sunny

Mary Beth SO wrote:I’m a little concerned he’d misinterpret me joining this group for support. Most people, myself included, have typically thought of support groups as something a person joins to work through a problem, like an addiction. He’s not something I want to work through and he’s not a problem, he’s the man I care about. I came here to be able to talk with likeminded individuals that are experiencing the same things I am. I’m afraid he might misinterpret my intentions and believe that what he told me was so offensive and disturbing that I had to join a support group to work through it.

Hi all,

Mary Beth,

Taking the quote above as being your main point, I have a couple of ideas for you to consider.

First, your concern that he might misinterpret the reasons for your being here, on this forum, are a wonderful opportunity, I think, for honest conversation between you and your DH. Misinterpretation is often the result of lack of communication or "noise in the signal" (as linguists sometimes call it when the message that was "emitted" is different from the one that was "received"). Be clear with him--in the eventuality you actually tell him, that is--as to why you're here. It seems to me you could copy and paste your original post in its entirety and that would do the job very well.

Second, regardless of what either of you think about support groups, there are many good reasons for their existence--not the least of which is to give individuals an opportunity for self-disclosure. I'm not talking about self-disclosure around a given issue or problem or addiction but, rather, self-disclosure around a given set of feelings or emotions. Talking about your feelings with other people--again, regardless of where people stand on any given issue--is the surest path to the clarification of your own thoughts and feelings about something. Talking about your feelings is a healthy thing to do (and a possibly lucrative one, too, if the popularity of "reality TV" and talk shows are any indication ). As in "real life," there are many people here, on the forum, who have vastly differing life experiences and viewpoints on gender and sex or on matters totally unrelated to either. You can see this forum (or any other) as being part of what I like to call "The Great Conversation." Its subject, of course is, and always has been, this: Being Human. Which brings me to a third point.

The following inscription was written in the forecourt of the ancient Greek temple of Apollo at Delphi: γνῶθι σεαυτόν (gnothi seauton)--"know thyself." It's purposefully ambiguous, I know; it can mean "know who you are" or "know for yourself." The quest for such knowledge can never be, in and of itself, a bad thing, I think. You come here, Mary Beth, not just to know about crossdressing (or whatever you or your partner choose to call it when a man likes to dress up as a woman) but to know about your own thoughts and feelings about the practice. This desire to know, again, can never be faulted by anyone else. If someone, even someone you cherish, would seek to keep you in the dark about such things, you'd then need to ask yourself why (and, eventually, to ask him why). There's much wisdom to be gained on this (or any other ) "support" forum. It's not a wisdom you gain by dint of the knowledge of others but by dint of their lived experience. The lived experience of others is (or can be) a treasure chest--as much as your own can be to others--when the issue is how to live and act in the world, and to live and act well, on the road to self-fulfillment and growth.

On a more personal note: my SO, Roxanne, and I have a disagreement about everything I just wrote here. She keeps saying that she's not as interested in the experience of gender variance she'll find here as much as she's interested in my own such experience. Hence, she only very seldom pops in to the forum. But I tell her this: there's much about being gender-variant that does reflect my own views and experience that's been said here in a much more eloquent or poignant fashion than I ever could express. The downs. The ups. The purges. The self-loathing. The despair. The little joys and triumphs. The suicidal moments. The moments of pure bliss and elation at being accepted, not just "tolerated." Etc., etc. In the forum, and though I have only one brain, I have access to a "greater consciousness," a wider range of expression of what it can mean to be who and what I am--both to myself as well as to Roxanne. She misses out by refusing to see this. But it's her choice and I accept it.

Anyway, Mary Beth, anything I said above can also apply to your DH. While there may be some value in avoiding labels, there's greater value, I think, in first moving through, and then beyond, them in our search for self-definition and in our quest for some authentic form of personhood (two things labels are powerless to interfere with, despite sometimes frantic attempts by others--read: the world at large--to label us). Personally, I find nothing "offensive or disturbing" in your being here, trying to get a grip on all this. In fact, quite the opposite; it's a good sign, I think. If your DH is even half as open and "curious-human" as you seem to be, Mary Beth, then I'd think he would see this, too.

Whichever way this goes for you, I wish both you and the man you love much happiness and fulfillment.

Love,
CJ