Fear of the Unknown - To SO's

[Josey]

Hi,

Ok, before I start, I know I maybe stepping on the toes of some of the SO's so please pardon me before hand.

As many of you know, I no longer have an SO in my life to contend with. I wish I did, but that's another story. I have been reading the post in the SO section, "Fear of the Unknown", and found myself very disturbed by it. I was disturbed because I could feel the fear and unhappiness of most of the SO's who posted there. The common thread of all was the distrust of their mates because of past lies. Lies are funny animals. One lie opens the door for future suspicion of everything that is said. Your fears are very easily understood. Now, let's look at it from the other side of the fence.

I've been in the shoes of your mates. I didn't tell my wife of the CDing until we had been married for about a month. I didn't do this to hide it. I was naive enough to feel that, since I had such very strong love for this lady, certainly I would never CD again. Yeah, right!!! After a month, I told her because I was going crazy. It almost ended the marriage, not because of the CD but because I had not told her before. I had lied, even if through ommission. OK, now you have my credentials to be writing this.

Over the next few years, I tried to be very careful to not lie about anything. Every so often, I would get what most every husband and some wives, gets. Something would seem to be bothering her so I would ask what's wrong. Her answer, "NOTHING!!!" If I asked her to talk to me about what ever was bothering her, she would simply tell me there was nothing bothering her. Now, in all fairness, how many of you have used those same or very similar terms when you really were not in a mood to discuss (spelled a-r-g-u-e) something?? Most everyone does. I have learned from these forums that most every CD'er has a certain amount of guilt in their lives attributed to the CDing. Now, if he feels something is wrong, and you don't admit what it is, just what do you think he will figure is causing the problem? Could it be the thing he is already feeling some guilt about? Duh!! And, since you and he have already discussed this topic and now you won't talk to him, perhaps he had better not tell you about the other things he is up to. You obviously aren't in the mood to hear them. Two days later, you discover something and there he is lieing to you again.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is your fault. I'm not trying to place fault anywhere. I am only saying that you already have a little black cloud following you around and the only way you are going to keep sunshine coming through it is to have a better than normal communications path. This type of problem exists in every marriage but every marriage doesn't have to contend with these guilt feelings. Those that have guilt in them about other subjects face the same problems. Lack of good communications is why we have such a large divorce rate in this country right now. My wife and I finally sat down and discussed this. Once we both realized the potential problem these communications voids would produce, we never again let each other off the hook with that type of answer. The problems went away.

This type of problem almost disrupted our marriage and both of us spent over 30 years in a communications company. Believe me, it can get anyone.

I hope I have made some sense here and, perhaps, have helped a few of you by giving you a different way to look at things. I wish my SO were here to add her thoughts to this because she was always smarter than I was but you're going to have to put up with just mine for now. I hope I didn't annoy any of you, SO or CD, and I would love to discuss it farther if anyone wants to. For now, I have taken up enough space. Please pardon me for being so drawn out.

[Loretta Ann]

Josey.

What an inspiring an introspective post. You have just touched on one of the major differences between the sexes. Didn't you know that we men are supposed to know what is wrong, and shouldn't have to ask. because if we don't already know, we wouldn't understand anyway? So there is really no point in telling us.

That is clearly the way it was during the years of my marriage. It certainly serves as a controlling mechanism, one of which I want no part of any more. And is probably one of the major reasons that I do not aspire to remarry.

I am very interested in seeing what other kind of responses you get from this post. Perhaps I need to be enlightened, I will be watching.

[Honey(SO)]

Over the 30 years of our marriage, there have been alot of ommissions. I will not call them lies. The biggest ommission being cross dressing. We also fell into the trap of 'nothing' is wrong. Mostly there was nothing wrong to talk about.
When I did catch my husband wearing my dress, we were both shocked and again'nothing' was said, but clearly 'something' was wrong. We just both chose to ignore it and I think maybe it will go away and he things maybe she will get used to the idea.
Again no communication on either side. But we were still happy and loved each other through it all.
When he finially deceided it was time to say something, we were both ready for it. We were in a place and armed with knowledge and understanding of cross dressing. we were both able to accept it. He did not understand it in himself either. Thanks to the internet we both understand what this is all about and we are both enjoying it. And we are always talking about it. Being in several groups for SO and CD we get lots of information daily and we use it to bring up different subjects, some of them uncomfortable for us but why wonder it is better to just ask and get it out. Wondering is always worse than the knowing.
Now do I consider my husband not telling me about his cross dressing a long time ago a lie-NO, a secret yes, but then secrets always come out in the long run, they are just waiting for the right time.
Honey

[Josey]

Hi Honey (SO),

I read your post and smiled very large. You have an absolutely wonderful attitude and remind me so much of someone who was very important in my life. Your hubby is a very lucky man. I love your differentiation between a lie and a secret. In most instances, you are absolutely correct. Most spouses do not want to lie to each other but rather they hesitate to discuss something right now because the time doesn't feel right. "Right now, she's mad so I'll wait until she calms down" Of course, when she (or he) has calmed down, then why bring it up and get her mad again??? A real vicious circle that hampers good communication. Still, it is a secret rather than a lie.

Thank you so much for your replay. I do hope more SO's will add their comments to this thread.

[Josey]

Hi Darlene,

I'm not sure this a difference between the sexes. I am looking at this from the point of men talking about their CDing but think of how many times we here of the wife who doesn't want to tell her husband she went out and bought a new dress because the time isn't right. How many men come home from work in a bad mood and when their wives ask them what's wrong, they tell her "nothing". The wife then starts trying to figure what she did to upset her hubby. I really feel it's something that most of us do which can be very damaging to a relationship regardless of which side initiates it.

I also would like to see more opinions along this line.

[Loretta Ann]

Josey.

At a place where I spend some time once or twice every week, there are more women present than men. Around the lunch table, I have heard one women (not the same one each time) make the comment that men would not understand anyway so why bother to tell them.

These are women who have been married for 40 - 50 years, to the same man.

I guess the difference that I see is that men are more inclined to try and find a solution, while not all but most women choose to remain silent. which serves to sabotage those efforts.

The wife then starts trying to figure what she did to upset her hubby

The wife is not responsible for that. If someone says or dose something that upsets me, that is my responsibility. being hurt in this world is unavoidable, and one needs to accept that reality (the same as we have had to accept the reality that we are gender gifted cross-dressers) and learn how to live with that.

Thats the way that I see it.

[Kay(SO)]

Interesting thread here.

Darlene wrote: Around the lunch table, I have heard one women (not the same one each time) make the comment that men would not understand anyway so why bother to tell them.

The women you are referring to may have been married for 40 or 50 years however this doesn't mean that they are "healthy" nor does it mean that their relationships are.

In healthy relationships, people do not omit things because they are stuck in fear about how the other person is going to take it.


And yes, most men think on a more logical, need to fix whatever's wrong level. Unlike women who sometimes just want to be heard, whether you understand us or not. My husband is guilty of this and is working on it through our couples therapy. He thinks I'm either somehow putting him down when I say ANYthing at all (his own low self-esteem issues) or he thinks he needs to be responsible for making "it" (whatever it is at the time) better.

Continued communication, compromise, compassion and honesty are the keys. If you don't have those things then you (not you personally) need to find a way to get them.

Kay(SO)

[Loretta Ann]

Kay(SO)

I agree with every thing you have said. It is so good to see a woman write like you have hear. I have only one question for you.

Can you explain what a woman needs from her husband in order to understand that she has been heard? When men speak to each other there dose not seem to be a problem, they simply speak to each other and they are heard.

I have had a woman tell me something while standing 3 - 4 feet away from me, looking each other in the eyes. When she is finished she then says Darlene ! Did you hear me? I have felt like saying lady how could I not have heard you?

I am not being critical I would just like to understand?

[Kay(SO)]

Darlene,
I completely understand what you're saying. I think it depends of the topic that a woman is talking about as to how to respond but I can say this. Any expression of empathy will do nicely. Whether it's to take her hand, rub her back, hold her or saying something to the affect of " gee, that must be awful for you, feel terrible, I can't say I know how you feel but I can see you're hurting, confused, upset..l." Now if it's something good or positive you just turn it around and say something lovely such as, "that's wondeful, how nice (be sure not to sound patronizing) or great". I know it sounds stupid or simple but my husband has asked in agony the same question and yelled, "I don't know what to do!" I told him to just listen and love me. He's getting better all the time. I love that you are interested in trying to comprehend our complexities! Hugs,

Kay(SO)

[GalicianGirl(SO)]

And yes, most men think on a more logical, need to fix whatever's wrong level. Unlike women who sometimes just want to be heard, whether you understand us or not. My husband is guilty of this and is working on it through our couples therapy. He thinks I'm either somehow putting him down when I say AnYthing at all (his own low self-esteem issues) or he thinks he needs to be responsible for making "it" (whatever it is at the time) better.

Continued communication, compromise, compassion and honesty are the keys. If you don't have those things then you (not you personally) need to find a way to get them.

Well stated Kay(SO)...Most of the time I want Shannon to just sit down and hear what I have to say. I don't necessarily need a response but it's nice to know someone is actually taking the time to really listen. But Shannon also thinks I'm putting him down whenever I say or suggest something. I also get the old "turn the volumn up on the remote control to drown her out" response. Our communication was good for a while but after the responses that I was getting, I just learned to keep my mouth shut. That way there are no arguements. This is an example of what not to do in a relationship.

Sharon(SO)

[Loretta Ann]

Kay(SO) and Sharon(SO)

Thank you for your response. I have taken some time to process this information before replying. While it is helpful, and also helps me understand women better, it still leaves some questions.

If women need that in order to feel loved, then love has to have two definitions, one for men and one for woman. because that is not what I need to feel loved.
If women need that in order to feel loved, where dose that leave women if they don't get it....helpless???

This conversation has just opened another window that allows me to understand my need to cross-dress from a different prospective. Cross-dressing supplies what I need in order to feel loved, cherished, and special. It is a basic human need that can not, will not be denied, and for me that is the driving force behind it.

I know people who have lived there whole lives and have never understood this.

A friend of mine who was a counselor, once told me that he told a person who was his client, that he was there to love him until he could get to a point where he could love himself.

Because men and women do not require the same thing in order to be loved, it is impossible for any of us to ideally meet the needs of others, therefore my being loved is not your responsibility it is mine.

I don't know where that leaves you, as all this is very new to me, but now I understand better, Thank you ladies.

[Josey]

Hi Darlene,
Looks like I have started something here, which is good because I see communication in progress.

You said:

When she is finished she then says Darlene ! Did you hear me? I have felt like saying lady how could I not have heard you?

I maybe wrong but I believe that you should substitute the word "understand" for the word "hear" in your statement. Perhaps, her statement would make more sense. My first wife would often swap those words around, particularly when she was mad!

Thank you all for your input here.

[Kay(SO)]

Darlene,
The truth is that we do have different needs but one thing I want to comment on is this: If women need that in order to feel loved, where dose that leave women if they don't get it....helpless???

Yes, sometimes. What we do is either learn to live without it, end up miserable or find other ways to get our needs met. Everyone does, not just women. The latter being the healthiest response.

You also wrote: Because men and women do not require the same thing in order to be loved, it is impossible for any of us to ideally meet the needs of others.

I disagree with this only because the way it's stated. We CAN meet each other's needs if we are aware of them. We don't have to have the SAME needs or even understand someone else's needs. We just have to have knowledge of those needs. Once that happens, negotiation and compromise can begin.

I know for myself, this relates to many areas of our relationship, including CDing. It's how we function as a couple.

I agree with what your counselor friend proposed and as a therapist myself, I use the same motto often. Recovery of any kind is what I view as a journey for self-love. No matter what the issues you're dealing with. Anyway, this has been a really good thread and it seems it has made us all think and reflect. Thanks.

Kay(SO)

[Loretta Ann]

Kay(SO)

I can't thank you enough for your response. Your input in this conversation has helped to made a huge difference in my life. Finally I believe I now have a very truthful explanation to why I am a cross-dresser, and will probably continue to need to be one for the rest of my life.

In a perfect world our needs would have been adequately met since child hood, and there would not have been the need for one to cross-dress, or as you have stated find alternative ways to get our needs met.

Alas this world never has been perfect.....and never will be. Once that is understood, negotiation and compromise can begin.
Yes you are right.

[Josey]

Hi Kay (SO),

I have very rarely agreed more with a statement than the one you just made. You said:

"We don't have to have the SAME needs or even understand someone else's needs. We just have to have knowledge of those needs."

This so very true. The problem I have encountered, even in an almost perfect union as my late wife and I had, is that those needs are often not expressed. Both male and female seem to have the idea that their partner should just understand their needs. This is probably a little more prevelent in the female mind for some reason. The problem with that is the fact that the male mind is a little thick (sorry guys)! It most often doesn't understand the feelings of the female without being told, and sometimes it takes multiple tellings. This often leads the female to feel that the male doesn't care or love her which is usually anything but the truth. Once more, I find myself pushing communications, but what can you expect from someone who spent 30+ years in a communications company! soap

Kay, I thank you so much for your wonderful posts. You have given me a lot of information which I may get to use if I ever find another to share my life, or what's left of it.