I'm sad today...

[Georgia(SO)]

You know what makes me sad? It's not that my sweetie wears dresses sometimes. It's that there is this woman inside him that makes him choose between one side of himself and the other side. See, he's only interested in women; but she is only interested in men. (Which I suppose makes him sortof bi-gendered straight if one is looking for labels, but I digress).

He's having a hard time right now. This week, she needs to be up front, she needs interaction with men, attention from men. No matter whether I was turned on by the dressing or not, it wouldn't make any difference, because I am not a gm. OTOH, he doesn't want to lose or hurt me. Because his guy side needs me in his life. (Will I leave if she goes out courting men? Well, I won't like it, that's for sure - bi-gendered or not, it feels like cheating...).

Most of the time it's under control, and he does whatever he needs to do to balance the two sides of him. But just now, it's crazy-making for him and there's nothing I can do to help. It makes me sad to see him sad and slightly psycho. It makes me sad that my attentions won't help because she's not interested in women. It makes me sad that because she's on top just now and pitching a fit, he is not going to be open to my advances either because the guy side that is interested in me is sorta sublimated at the moment...

It makes me sad because it doesn't matter how much I accept - or even if I enjoyed it - there are these two sides of him that are a condundrum and a couple of times a year it makes him crazy. I do know that he has chosen that, in the end, his male side and I have top billing. But her need to be paid attention to is palpable and I hurt for him, and I'm jealous of her taking *his* attentions from me, and in general I just feel crappy because I can't do anything to help.

So I'm sad today.
-g(so)

[DonnaT]

Sorry to hear that Georgia.

Is it cheating if there is no intimate contact?

If its not cheating, then can she get the attention she seems to be craving and have no intimate contact?

If it is cheating or she wants the intimate contact, then the marriage comes first, and she should not be going out looking for attention.

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

that sucks mate. have you explained how much that hurts because it feels to you as if he wants to cheat on you.
I gotta say mate to a certain extent most people have different sides to themselves. different traits that are expressed at different times. i can be super fem or butch at different times. i suppose thats like your partner.
I am also bisexual however i am always attracted to my partner even if when I'm butch i feel particularly like a sexual predator to women. I am 100% monogamous and would never ever cheat in my partner anyway. not just because i'd loose him but because i have no desire to cheat. we all like attention to how we look from the sexes we like but acting on it is totally different. i must say i would find it cheating too if your partner wants to sleep with other people regardless of what clothes he wears or which sexual mood he is it would be cheating. i think you need to make that more clear. even if he doesn't find you sexy when hes dressed which is a tad bizarre i can't understand how one can just stop finding someone attractive especially if you love them but still even if there are two people in your partner's brain if they love you they shouldn't have any desire to hurt you. you should explain how upset that makes you to b undesired when he is dressed and him wanting men.

[Elizabeth]

Hi Georgia(SO),

I'm sorry, but cheating is cheating. All bisexual people have to make a choice, just as the rest of us who are married. Committing ourselves to someone is no guarantee that we will never have any other desires, just that we will not act on them.

I see his situation as being no different than the middle aged man, who is married, that is attracted to younger more attractive women. That attraction does not justify cheating, no matter how much the desire.

I feel bad for both of you, but i have no solution. We all have desires that go unanswered. That's life. It part of the choices we make.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[KimberlyS]

I ditto Elizabeth as she said it better than I could have.


kimberlys cd
joe in a skirt

[Carly]

Just because she desires male verification it doesn't mean the vows made are to be ignored. It should be the same as interactions with females in the male mode. Where is your SO's self control?

[Georgia(SO)]

No, he didn't go anywhere or do anything. He was just feeling pretty upset... And he made it clear that he didn't go anywhere *because* of his feelings for me. I was just sad because he was so clearly unhappy that night - and because no matter what I would do, I couldn't make it better. Also just needed to talk about it to folks who wouldn't freak out at the mention of a dress!

-g(so)

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

I think he needs to know hurt it made you though too. he shouldn't really be upset hes got you that should be enough.

[April Rose]

Georgia I don't think he's being fair to you. Commitment to a partner implies that you don't make that the partner feel inadequate in the process. It seems to me that there are some head games going on here. Don't give in to letting him cheat, actually or psychologically. You have been open minded and wonderfully tolerant of him. Make it clear that you have needs that must be met as well.

[Anita]

Hi Georgia—
I really feel for both of you in this situation. At least you’re talking about it—it may be painful, but the two of you are being honest about what each of you are experiencing. I have been on both sides of this issue, and there is no easy answer for it.

When I was on your side of it: I had one girlfriend who I lived with for almost three years. We had a lot of attraction to each other’s way of thinking and communicating—that is a strong draw, when you find someone who understands you consistently. We both got a lot out of being together as a couple.

But at times, she had to acknowledge that I was not her ‘type,’ physically. She missed being with big, bear-like men. I was tall and slim. There was nothing either of us could do about this. We remained monogamous, because that was important to both of us. But at those times, she couldn’t pretend that it was OK for her.

So I have experienced what’s it like to go through periods where your monogamous partner is just not interested in you—and it has little or nothing to do with your attractiveness; it has to do with what they need or want at the moment. It feels unfair, it hurts, and it can drive you crazy. At the same time, my then-girlfriend was an honest person who was doing the best she could with the feelings that she had.

I’ve never cheated on anyone in a relationship, and probably never will at this point. But with my current girlfriend, I’m on your husband’s side of it.
I did not spend a lot of time in relationships with men, but I did have them, as a woman. I willingly became monogamous again to be with LeeAnne, but ‘willingly’ doesn’t mean that there’s no strain involved in maintaining that. There’s a part of me that is not going to be able to surface again. Can I live with that?

I see his situation as being no different than the middle aged man, who is married, that is attracted to younger more attractive women. That attraction does not justify cheating, no matter how much the desire.

I would disagree here, Elizabeth. I’ve been in the above situation, and it’s not quite the same for me. My attraction to men is a validation of my girlself. My male persona does not need that validation. So it’s two different needs. I’m not arguing that this justifies cheating; only that it is a harder issue to resolve than the one above.

And I dislike that this brings up the issue of: are you a different person when you’re presenting as a woman? I am, and I’m coming from that point of view. I know others do not agree that that is necessarily true for them. My girlfriend happens to like me in both of my genders, and she also acknowledges the problem of giving up the woman side of myself. LeeAnne would not want to have to do that, and yet we both see that it’s necessary for me to do so. No ready answers here! I’m sorry that you’re having to go through this, Georgia.

[Georgia(SO)]

Thank you Anita. I have been rather surprised at how people have reacted to my post. You said what I didn't have the words for...

My attraction to men is a validation of my girlself.

I have known people who are single-gendered bi-sexual and this is not the same thing. I also have known both men and women who just couldn't keep their zippers zipped - who just had to have someone new or different. This isn't the same thing either.

My sweetie chose to forego the sexual part of his girl-self in order to be with me. It's a helluva compliment, but it's also difficult to know that someone is giving up something that significant. And to know, as you said,

There’s a part of me that is not going to be able to surface again.

And while it may not be so for all bi-gendered people, there *are* two very different people in him (ok, possibly not clinically, but then again I'm not real sure about the clinical explanation for any of this). And what it means is that one of his people must be celibate in order for the other one to have the relationship with me that he wants.

That's a biggie... apparently he thinks I'm worth it but that doesn't make it easy for him,, nor does it make it particularly easy for me. (That's a big ol' pedestal to be sitting on). And it doesn't obliviate my very quiet feelings of knowing that there is nothing I can do to help. Nor of knowing that when *she* is on top - uh - how to say this - that I'm just not going to fill the bill...

After his last marriage went south (apparently for other reasons), he had decided to stay single... His boy side and girl sides could do their own things and nobody got hurt. But he up and fell in love with me. What's a body to do? Give up a partner that makes you happy - or just accept the conundrum and struggle through it as best you can? Ditto for me - I had no intention of getting involved again - but I up and fell in love with him. He was very up front about his two selves - (I'm not sure I had enough info of my own to really understand then, but he did tell me about it). If I were to go out and choose someone, it would not be someone who has these conflicting needs. But what am I going to do - give him up totally? It's not like he's a jerk or anything...

I know there is no answer. It's just a bit crazy making on both sides, ya know?

thanks for listening...
g(so)

PS - I thank those of you who were watching out for me.

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

perhaps thats two that some people feel like two different people.
although bigenderism is about feeling both male and female does not mean your male and female part aren't the same person.
but it does sound like your partner has two seperate sides to himself.
I consider myself one whole person but with different side. a butch side and a femme side (and many other sides too) but both those MEs or presentation of MEs are bisexual. I love and fancy the pants of my male lover even when I'm butch even though my attraction to women seems exaggerated in its preditoryness when butch and when I'm femme I still find myself sexual aroused by women even though i feel like my male partner's adorable sex slave (in a good way LOL not abusive way)
so I always like both.
But whether you always like men and women or only when dressed or cas you have two persons in you the issue is the same theres a part of you you can't live anymore.
I thought i was gay, on average i prefer women and find so few men attractive, i lived the lifestyle too. so being with my lover monogamously means i can never hold a girl again that way, feel masculine and dominant during sex etc etc. I'll never experience that side of myself again properly..............SO WHAT! I love H all other things pale in comparrison. yes occasionally its a tad hard when i see two girls together but then i think sod them what i have with H feels better than what anyone has had ever. I love with with all my heart and mind and physical attraction. i mourn for my other side very very little as I'm smart enough to know i like plums and peachs but there is this certain kind of peach that makes all other peaches and plums just so worth throwing out into the trash. sod them.
monogamy is about investing one's well everything into their partner. I suppose its different because there is a side of your parnter or a person within your partner who is not attracted to you yet i feel this different again from Anita's sitation as her partner was with someone who was not her type at all but you are your partner's type or at least one of his personalities type.
I dunno its complex but i knows theres part of me that would want to express or valid myself by sleeping with a women but sod that i have H. anyone else would be so meh in comparison. and i think thats how your partner should feel about.
Everybody scarifices when they enter love. monogamy means sacrificing the ability to have all those different tastes fullfilled but you get something better and more special instead. you get to own your partner and be loved to the exclusion of all other. i think maybe people need in general need to focus less on what they sacrificed more on what they gained. and hey we all miss the old days thats what porn is for LOL.

[Anita]

Georgia wrote:

After his last marriage went south (apparently for other reasons), he had decided to stay single... His boy side and girl sides could do their own things and nobody got hurt

After my four-year relationship with a close woman friend who was also a musician, I also decided to stay single. I had given that career vs. relationship battle my best shot, and it didn't work, even with another competent musician. I had no more fantasies about some dream lover who would solve all my problems, so I was prepared to go the rest of my life single. This took some getting used to, but I made the switch, and I went eleven years this way.

The point is, when the inner woman made herself known, I could experiment all I needed to to make it work. There was no SO to get upset by my dressing, my going out, and my trying on different behaviors. My present gf got to know me during this period, and she probably even judged me for things that she heard me talk about in group.

Neither one of us could have ever imagined that we'd be together. We were just members of the same support group. To even become friends took an enormous amount of trust on both our parts.

But he up and fell in love with me. What's a body to do? Give up a partner that makes you happy - or just accept the conundrum and struggle through it as best you can? Ditto for me - I had no intention of getting involved again - but I up and fell in love with him

I thought I'd be single indefinitely, and never saw having to make any more choices in that area of life. But I saw the signposts that indicated that LeeAnne was going to become an SO. I wasn't entirely happy at this development, but I knew that it had to be acknowledged and dealt with. Attraction doesn't just 'go away' on its own, even if it's not convenient and totally upsets your current lifestyle.

So that's what happened to me. Sounds like it happened to you and your husband, too. You try not to involve anyone in a seemingly no-win situation, but commitment has a life of its own. You just can't get all the pieces to fit in at times.

[Absaroka]

I'm sorry to hear of this Georgia, and hope it will pass for a while, soon.

I can't improve on the words of wisdom here from others and won't try. Hang in there.

Zari

[Georgia(SO)]

Oh, it's better now. It's a cyclical thing - apparently related to the coming on of the full moon. dunno why. Somebody somewhere used the term "gender flare". Man, that describes it.

Sometimes the gender flares are really fairly moderate - sometimes they are pretty fiery. I know what it's like looking at them from the outside - can't imagine what it's like to be inside that volcano.

thanks for all kind words... this is not the end of the free world - just gets to me from time to time. Nice to have a place to come and speak...

-g(so)