Trials & Tribulations of a New SO

A 'round table' for CDs, TGs and GG/SOs to talk with each other. We're all in this together, so let's make the most of it.

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Trials & Tribulations of a New SO

Post by ShamrockFaerie(SO) »

I have chosen to split this topic from the original "Shame and Embarrassment" thread because it has become a topic in its own right. - - {SilverLady(SO), Site Administrator, 11 Jun 2007}

Like some others have mentioned, I should say that for us, my husband's crossdressing is a very sexual thing. It's like a fetish, and I feel that he should only share that aspect of himself with me (and me alone). That said, I embrace my husband's crossdressing. Being a bisexual woman, there's something very exciting about seeing my muscular, hairy, macho husband dressed in pink lace or red silk. And he likes my panties just as much when I wear them as when he does. :lol: Also, he does not identify as female when he is "dressed". He is still very masculine, but more sensitive. He has a femme name (Jennifer) but prefers that I not even use it. He actually likes being called his male name (Joe) while he's dressed and we are in bed together. He also is VERY MUCH a man when we make love. So I have no trouble at all accepting his sexual preferences.... He's still the man I married.

Because of the nature of my husband's crossdressing, and because he identifies it with eroticism rather than comfort or relaxation, we have aggreed that we will keep it between us in our own bedroom. My husband has expressed some interest in going out fully dressed on a date as lesbians rather than husband and wife (which EXCITES me BIG TIME), but again.... We plan to use the whole "date" as foreplay and reap the benefits when we get home :twisted: . he doesn't want to become a woman or even be treated like one. But he does want to dress in women's clothing because it makes him (and me) feel sexy. It would still be a very intimate evening for us, but my husband has made it clear that he would prefer to do it away from our hometown where he wouldn't be recognized. That's his choice. Not mine. I go along with pretty much whatever he feels comfortable with at the time, and since he only came out to me 4 DAYS ago, we still have lots of talking and exploring to do.

For us, I would be embarrassed by my husband going out in public dressed, but not because his crossdressing embarrassed me. It would be because he was bringing something intimate and private from our bedroom out into the open. It would be like him masterbating in public or something. I'd be mortified. But that's just our specific situation. Hope my experience helps shed some light on your situation. It may just be something that your wife wants to keep between the two of you as an intimate secret, and what she says about your kids is right. Kids are CRUEL, and explaining crossdressing to them is certainly tricky. You wouldn't want them going to school and hearing "My mom saw your dad dressed like a woman in the grocery store". Even if your kids know and understand, most other kids they socialize with don't, and they would ruthlessly attack your kids because their dad is "different". It's just the way things work. So if it's NOT something private or sexual for you, you still have to acknowledge that it's probably not something the rest of your family is willing to broadcast from the rooftops.

I don't know what to tell you except that patience is a virtue. The TG issues certainly complicate things quite a bit, but I believe you can make it through. Good luck.

-Tiffany
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Post by Stacey »

ShamrockFaerie(SO) wrote:I don't know what to tell you except that patience is a virtue. The TG issues certainly complicate things quite a bit, but I believe you can make it through. Good luck.

-Tiffany
Yes, I am still trying so hard. And I fear I will be dead (of natural causes) before I ever have peace.
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Post by ShamrockFaerie(SO) »

Kathy - I just want to be clear on something......

Even though you don't view your wife's embarrassment as your own baggage (and you certainly shouldn't.... you're right on there), you still respect her feelings on the subject and try to comfort her when she is upset, right?

You might not fully understand you're wife's embarrassment or her fixation on trying to protect you when you don't want or need protection, just like she probably doesn't understand your compulsion to dress as a woman, but compromise is about mutual respect, and to me that means carrying your spouse's baggage sometimes, just as you have asked her to carry yours.

Just a thought. I haven't read alot of your posts, so I'm not sure exactly if you have this type of arrangement with your wife, so if I'm way off base or something, just ignore me.

-Tiffany
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Post by KathyB »

Tiffany:

I won't ignore you because after reading my other posts, you might understand my personal situation better. I told my spouse about my cross-dressing and transgender nature BEFORE we were married, in fact before we ever had sex. At that time, she was a very different person. Several years after we were married, she went through her second bout of drug abuse and chemical dependency (the first was with her first husband) and regressed to the psychological and emotional levels of a twelve-to-fourteen-year-old. This is not my layman's estimation, it was provided by the licensed psychotherapist who counseled us for two years.

Mature agreement is not practical in our relationship. She is not capable of mutual respect because her life is based on fear and insecurity and mine is not. Comforting her numerous irrational fears is not an enabling activity I pursue. I have not asked her to carry my emotional or psychological baggage because I dropped it many years ago.

I don't consider my cross-dressing as any kind of compulsion. It is an expression of who I am and how I feel. After finally learning to love and experience the complete person I am, I was able to move farther ahead in my life than ever before. It was extremely liberating and beneficial. I stopped drinking, started taking medication for my depression, and achieved more in my professional life.

I'm glad you joined the forum and happy to hear you're learning more about the wide spectrum of gender expression. We're a diverse collection of individuals, with varying levels of comfort and understanding. What's important is we're all seeking to understand ourselves better. We all benefit from sharing our experiences and supporting each other. I wish you and your husband nothing but a better and more exciting relationship. Keep having fun and enjoying yourselves. :dancing:
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Post by ShamrockFaerie(SO) »

Kathy - Sorry to hear about your situation.... Truly I didn't know about everything. I'm glad that you told her, but very sorry to hear that she has been struggling with addiction.

I'd like to say more but have no time. Just wanted to offer my support.

-Tiffany
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Post by KathyB »

Your support is greatly appreciated. I was glad to see you did Jennifer's makeup this weekend. Hope you both had a great time sharing the fun.
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Post by ShamrockFaerie(SO) »

Sort of.

We are in a fight right now..... I just have a feeling there's something he's not telling me. And considering how understanding I have been, he must think whatever it is is REALLY bad. It's more than a feeling really.... It's too much to go into in detail here, but there are LOTS of things that tell me something's wrong. The main factors that lead me to believe there's something I don't know are -

1) Whenever I ask him about his CDing and how often he'd like to do it, etc.... He gets all uncomfortable and just aggrees with whatever I say. He doesn't really elaborate on much and if I push him, he gets angry and defensive.

2) Last night he waited until I went to work then put on a thong and started shopping for breast forms and lingere online. When I got home and went to check my e-mail, he acted all sketchy, so I checked the history and sure enough, he had been shopping. I asked him if he bought anything (a pretty innocent question) and he said "NO".... Just a 1 word answer and crossed his arms.

3) When I asked him today if we could talk about his CDing and how important it is in his life (I am trying to figure out how best to meet his needs) he got mad and said he didn't feel like dealing with my sh*t today and he actually threw the remote control. He also said that I "make his life miserable".... Apparently just because I asked a question.

His behavior is suspicious and I am starting to think that maybe all his talk about Transvestic Fetishism is a bunch of hooey. Maybe he's a full on TS and doesn't want me to know. Or maybe he has some other secret. The fact is I don't know, and I can't trust him. So I'm sleeping on the couch tonight, because I just can't bring myself to lie down next to someone who is lying to my face after everything we've been through recently. Plus I'm pregnant and really really pissed off that he refused to talk AGAIN tonight (at 8:30pm) because he was "too tired and going to bed" and I should "leave him alone". he actually went to sleep, and I am so angry I could spit. I'm the pregnant one. I'm the tired one. And I'm the one who got all this crap springed on her and is being lied to. And yet I seem to be the only one who gives a damn about this relationship. And I'm the one sleeping on the freaking couch.

He has just been feeding me what he thinks I want to hear and he is holding something back. I am absolutely positive of that. I need to know what it is. I will never be able to trust him again if he is not honest with me, and if I can't get that trust back, then the marriage WILL end.... There is no doubt. If he is honest with me we can possibly work through whatever it is he is hiding. It would give us a chance. But right now it looks like he doesn't care about that. It's enough for him just to keep his stupid secret and avoid the awkward conversation. Sad..... He's willing to trade our marriage for his own pride. Pathetic.

I could seriously throw up right now.
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Post by Virginia »

Tiffany,
Honey, you have most of us concerned! I don't know what we can do, but to listen to you and offer suggestions and lots of nice shoulders to cry on.

You do know that some of us have been on each side of your situation, although, the "guy mode" would have difficulty in admitting to the fact that we were being total assh....! But that comes with the territory.

I am not a counselor and there are only a few of my sisters here who would qualify as being professionals; however, that being said, it still behooves some of us to at least offer our layman's (lay person's) opinion and/or advice.

Step back, take some deep breaths. You are an intelligent, well-spoken woman. I know you are upset and concerned, but you know as well as any of us - this stress you don't need to be putting on yourself right now and a lot of stress is self-induced. No, it is not easy, but just think of your own mental and physical well-being - that should come first. You are living for two right now, one of whom does not even begin to understand, and really can't handle the potential hormonal distress that you may be introducing.

"Joe's" situation is not going to change, least ways in the immediate future. Remember our mantra, "baby steps, just baby steps" If you must talk or feel the need to say something just a simple comment right now. "Honey, I am only concerned about your well-being and our family!" and let it go, let him make the next move. I would not bring up anything about sexual diversions unless he does, then respond only up to your comfort level. Don't get into any arguments. Remember the old adage, "Don't try and teach a pig to sing -- it wastes your time and irritates the pig!"

Please know that you have lots of concerned friends here and we will support you however we can!!!

Love ya,

Virginia
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Post by ShamrockFaerie(SO) »

Well, when he woke up this morning and saw that I had not come to bed, he seemed genuinely concerned. I'm putting the emphasis on SEEMED, because he has also SEEMED to be honest with me and that has not been the case at all.

He told me that when he gets home tonight, we can talk about whatever I need or want to talk about. Not sure how much good that will do, unless I can hook him up to a lie detector test.

It's not fair. He tells me things and I stupidly believe them and adjust everything to try and accept what he has told me, and then it turns out he's lying AGAIN (or still, however you want to look at it). The way I see it, he's purposely keeping me in the dark to save some semblance of his precious secret. He is torturing me so that HE can be more comfortable.

How much clearer can I be? I told him "I love you and will work through anything with you, but I refuse to be made a fool..... If you are honest we have a chance. If you keep secrets or lie, there's no chance for our marriage." I told him that THE DAY I FOUND OUT ABOUT HIS CDing! Does he not "get it"? What is his friggin' problem? I don't think I'm asking for much..... Just a little respect. If I don't start getting it, I WILL end this marriage and raise my children alone. I won't raise them in a home filled with lies and distrust, and I won't teach them that respect is a one way street. I don't care if Joe wants to dress in full drag with giant elaborate wigs and "To Wong Foo" makeup..... Our children would grow up in an alternative home and would learn acceptance and love. But if he keeps sneaking around, they will grow up thinking that families are about lies and shame..... They won't learn about unconditional love. They'll just learn to keep secrets. I refuse to let that happen. I'm not afraid to do what's best for my kids, and if that means removing them from an environment that I think is harmful for them, I will do it in a heartbeat.

Maybe Joe needs time to figure out what exactly he wants and where exactly he is in this process. But I am his WIFE..... He chose to marry me, and in doing so, he accepted my help and support. If he refuses to allow me to give it, then I can't hold up my end of our marriage vows. I don't break promises I make to God. So if he prevents me from being his wife, I have no choice but to leave.
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Post by Chris P »

Dear Tiffany,

Whoa!

As in speaking to a spirited horse who is about to fling me out of the paddock.

Your S.O. is going to need some space to process his/her incorporation of you into this most intimate need of hers, and to overcome her personal fears of sharing this secret with another.

Go slow about getting him/her to open up.
Let him have some secrets for now....he needs them for whatever reason.

Find some quiet, intimate times (not in the bedroom) where you can make some (seemingly) innocent inquiries about her needs.
Like sitting on the sofa, enjoying a glass of wine together.

This was hard for me to reveal to women I loved too. And sometimes their questions only drove me deeper towards secrecy, and heightened how "different" I was.

You want to create a relaxed, open atmosphere of trust where he feels he can can safely open up to you.
But, that also means (for time anyway) that you have to suspend judgement. In otherwords, when things surprise or shock you, you can't react.

I'm not suggesting that you hide or suppress your own feelings, only that you remain neutral during the initial process of discovery. There will time for you to react later.

This is one of the most difficult things to do in any mature relationship, no matter what the issue is.
What you are doing is creating a space, an intimate place in terms of emotion and affection, where he can say whatever it is that is currently haunting him (and it won't always be about crossdresseing!), and feel like there is someone who loves him, waiting to listen. And in turn, someone he loves as well.

The majority of couples don't ever find this place, and they are the poorer for it.

Good luck!

Chris
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Post by Lydia »

Hi Tiffany,

I’ve been reading your posts and my heart goes out to you. Obviously your whole life is in a turmoil, and you need help. Perhaps a counsellor would be a good idea, however, you have to be careful, since most marriage counselors have little understanding of crossdressing and its problems.

I am far from being an expert in this field, and I have no right to offer any advice whatsoever, but I can’t help wanting to reach out in some way. So here goes:

I am sure that, like most of us here, Joe has been crossdressing to some degree since early childhood. He has been hiding this - again, like most of us. I am sure he has been going though the nagging feelings of guilt, shame, self-deprecation, and all the baggage that comes with crossdressing. After years of suppression and, indeed, deception, he finally has the opportunity to open up. He cannot do it all in one fell swoop. This opportunity is given to him by you, and he should appreciate it. In my view, he should get down on his knees and thank you for your acceptance.

From what you have said, especially in your earlier posts, you have made a significant effort to cooperate with him. You have been honest and open with him, and, by rights, he should be the same with you, no matter how hard it is for him to overcome the years of concealment. If there is a true loving relationship (sexual aspects aside), then compromise and adjustment is possible, on both sides. What you are going through now may be the acid test of this relationship. If mutual compromise is not possible then a break becomes inevitable. In my opinion, the chances for happiness where two people live together in antagonism and distrust, is less than winning the lottery by not buying a ticket.

Of course there is the other major factor: the children and, especially, the one on the way. If you read some of the posts on this forum, the problem of informing the children is a difficult and serious one. No easy solutions are available, and each case is an unique situation - different from all others. Most of these problems are “solved” by limiting the crossdressing in time and place. Perhaps that is just sweeping the problems under the rug. Not having children of my own, I haven’t a clue as to what I would do.

Perhaps this is not really advice, but it may give you some food for thought. Whatever you do, stay on the line here. You have an immediate source of empathic friends, many of them having been through similar situations. Don’t be hesitant to ask for help here.

Love and Hugs,

Lydia
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Post by ShamrockFaerie(SO) »

Chris - That is exactly what I have been doing. I've tried to be nonchalant and even cavalier about the whole thing. I've tried not to push him or rush him. I'm not getting that same respect, and it's wrong.

When I saw that he had been shopping, I simply asked if he bought anything. Since money is tight right now, I figured that was a fair question. I got the stone wall.

When I asked him about how often he'd like to dress, it was simply so that I could try to help accomodate his desires. Since he has gone to elaborate lengths to hide this from me, I have no idea what I'm dealing with..... I need information, and I figured the best way to get it was to go straight to the source, rather than reading anecdotes from other CDers and making assumptions about my husband. Stupid me actually thought he'd appreciate me not making assumptions or judgements without asking him openly first. HA!

I can't help him OR ACCEPT HIM unless he is honest with me about what he wants and needs. Frankly, I dont care if he "needs" his secrets. He's had them for the entirety of our relationship. I NEED honesty and truth. I need it desperately. And I haven't had that AT ALL in our relationship. It's time for my husband to start taking care of ME and STOP BEING SO SELFISH.

In short..... If he wants or "needs" his secrets, then he'll have to find someone else to keep them from. If he "needs" to lie, then he must not "need" my help, support, or acceptance.

I can accept CDing, but not secrets and lies. All secrets do is breed mistrust. In a partnership there are TWO (count them.... One TWO) people involved. One person should not be asked to sacrifice the things that are important to them (in my case, honesty and trust) just to accomodate the other person. ESPECIALLY when the choice was completely denied to me. It wasn't until we had a family that the bomb was dropped so to speak. And if I hadn't found out, he would NEVER have told me. I would never even think of telling my husband not to dress. I just wouldn't ask him to change himself or his values to fit mine. So why in the world should I be the only one who has to try to understand? Why is it that it's OK for him to have secrets and to lie, but it's somehow NOT OK for me to ask questions and get answers for myself? Why, exactly, is EVERYTHING about HIS feelings and HIS process?

He made a choice to marry me even though he was lying constantly about just about everything. Now, why should I simply accept everything he says as truth or accept that his secrets are part of his "process"? Explain to me how I should just turn my head the other way when I know I'm being lied to for the GAZILLIONTH time.

I wonder what would have happened in our relationship if I had not told my husband I was bipolar or bisexual. I wonder if HE would sit back and "give me time" to "sort things out" if he found out I had spent thousands of dollars in a manic episode and he didn't even know I was bipolar. I wonder if he would "go slow" if I put up a hypersexual myspace page looking for a girlfriend when he didn't even know I was bisexual. I wonder......

The truth is, this is completely one sided, and it's wrong, and I am sick and tired of it. That's just all there is to it. I'm expected to just accept everything in stride, while he gets to do whatever the hell he wants to, with no regard for his family or our feelings, just like he has been for the last 5 years of our relationship. Not only that, but he gets to lie and steal and secretly spend money with absolutely no consequences..... This CDing is NOT a free pass. He still is responsible for being a good husband, and keeping secrets from your spouse is unacceptable, IMHO.

I have a feeling that our talk later today will end up being a moot point. I just don't believe anything he says anymore. I hate to say that, but it's true. He had an opportunity to earn my trust by making himself vulnerable and being honest with me, but he has chosen a different path, and it's time for him to understand that his choices have consequences.... Very very real ones.
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Post by DonnaT »

Well now. It's been something like 5 or 6 days since the talk you had with Joe/Jennifer following the talk you had with SilverLady.

Seems something happened in that 5-6 days. My guess is the loss of Joe's beard and the following makeup session. I'm only guessing here, mind, but it may be something to talk about tonight.

Let's say, for conversation's sake, that he discovered, realized or feels that it's not simply a fetish.

I remember the first time I was fully dressed and made-up, and especially after my wife gave me a wig she had. I was ready to go out right then and there, and wanted to go shopping for more clothes.

Now, I can imagine the kind of affect this new feeling would have on someone, like Joe, who's never been out. Who believes himself to be quite masculine. Who's been adamant that the dressing was a sexual thing. Who's told you, only a couple of weeks ago that it was only a fetish.

Who might now have to tell you he felt something different.

Or who may now realize the two week waiting period to be Jennifer again is simply too long.

It may now be eating at him, that there may be something more he has to say. Or it may be eating at him that he simply doesn't understand his feelings, and has been trying to work them out by himself.

What he hasn't figured out yet, is that you're a team. That personal issues are no longer personal. That any concerns/problems should be talked about as soon as they arise, or they could erode at the foundation you've been trying to build the marriage on. That foundation was weakened once, and may soon not be strong enough to support the marriage unless he can be open and honest to help rebuild that trust. And that his not talking and being moody stresses you out, which is not good, especially when pregnant.

Now, the question is, will you be able to handle it if he did say its more than a fetish, or he says he wants to dress more often. And can you discuss it without getting upset.

Remember now, the foregoing is only a guess. Something to think about. Something to prepare for.
DonnaT
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Post by Absaroka »

Hi Tiffany,

A lot of good stuff has been said here already. The main point being that it will take him time to come to terms with having let you into this part of his life. It hasn't been very long.

What this can mean is by you accepting it he is forced to accept this on a very different level. And that can be scary. Add to that the fact that for some of us our mantra for much of our lives has been "no one will know" or the variation that only a few people know. This can take a long time to let go of and the process can be very scary.

I'm put in the mind of a recurrent dream I used to have whenever I got into a serious relationship. A few months into the relationship, when it was one that mattered and was going somewhere, I would have a recurring dream that this new person I was falling in love with was the devil. It would be a very scary dream and I would typically have to get up out of bed and calm myself down. Eventually I realized this was about fear and that I was turning the other person into the scariest thing my subconscious could come up with.

I went through this process several times with my wife, both while we were dating, and after we got married. It was always during a period of increased closeness, such as after we bought our first home together and after our first child was born.

Above all what has been repeated here over and over is that these things take time. No matter how trusting and open and accepting you have been it takes time. Period.

Onto pregnancy. One of the most common times for a man to have an affair, right up there with the 50's midlife crisis. All the attention is on the pregnant woman. Which is after all where it should be. Not to diminish being pregnant in any way, which is something I can really have no conception of, I can tell you that pregnancy is a very scary time for men. What kind of a father will we be? How will this affect our life? (Profoundly, more than we can imagine) What if we don't like this child? How do we talk about any of this with this pregnant woman who we love and are trying to care for and protect?

So here we have two situations, either one of which is a big deal. And they amplify each other. Do you think it's a coincidence that Joe told you all this stuff now? Impending fatherhood.....Time to get all the other stuff out of the way.

I really don't have any idea what might be going on with Joe. This is just my own experience.

Hang in there, keep talking and listening, and try not to make any big decisions (like wether or not to continue to trust Joe) too quickly.

Keep us informed.

Absaroka
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Post by ShamrockFaerie(SO) »

Donna - I wanted to respond to you in particular, because you asked an honest question.
Now, the question is, will you be able to handle it if he did say its more than a fetish, or he says he wants to dress more often. And can you discuss it without getting upset.
If this is more than a fetish, I'm totally fine with it. All I want is for the lies to stop so I can get my head on straight. I just desperately want to be able to trust what he says again. If there's more to the story, I think I deserve to know.... And if he's struggling with this, I want to help him. But he's not letting me. And not only that, but I'm still struggling with trust, so MORE deception and secrecy really is only aggervating the problem. What you said about being a team is right on point. How can I possibly accept him if he refuses to tell me what he really wants? How can I help him if he won't discuss what he needs with me? How can I reassure him and help him grow if he refuses to talk to me about it? And most importantly, how can I ever trust him again if he won't tell me the truth?

I have an 8 month old who needs alot of things but can't tell me what they are. I deal with my daughter's needs every day. I have to be a mind reader. I have to use my deductive reasoning skills to determine whether she needs food or a new diaper or just sleep. I do this all day long every single day because she doesn't have words to use to tell me even her most basic needs. So you can imagine how ridiculously frustruating it is when my husband, a grown man, regresses to behaving like an 8 month old. He has words to tell me what he needs. But he refuses to do so. So I have to be his "mommy" too...... ARGH! Where is someone to be MY mommy? Oh yeah, that's right..... I'm not allowed to talk to MY mommy about this. So there's no one to anticipate (or care about) my needs, whether I voice them or not.

Abrasoka - you said
So here we have two situations, either one of which is a big deal. And they amplify each other. Do you think it's a coincidence that Joe told you all this stuff now? Impending fatherhood.....Time to get all the other stuff out of the way
but that's not exactly accurate. He never told me. If I hadn't gotten suspicious of him cheating on me and consequently went behind him and checked things out, I would never have found out this secret, and I believe that he would never have told me. Plus, we already have 1 child together, Devy, who Joe totally dotes on and adores. I don't think he's concerned about the impending fatherhood so much as just his own personal feelings. Also, my first pregnancy was REALLY difficult. I was hospitalized with hyperemisis for alot of the time, and then my emergency c-section went really bad because I have chronic low blood pressure. I almost died. With Joe right there next to me, watching helplessly while the doctors did everything they could for me. This pregnancy has been MUCH easier and I haven't wanted or needed any special attention for it. I hardly ever talk about the pregnancy with Joe (or anyone for that matter.... physically it's just been very unremarkable) and I still do everything I used to around the house. There's really NO focus on me or my pregnancy. So in our particular situation, I doubt that my pregnancy has much to do with HIS feelings, although it has an aweful lot to do with mine.

I feel abandoned.
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