Hi girls,
I was thinking recently in the differences in what people say and what they mean. I was thinking about the differences in how men and women speak, and the meaning of those words. The thing that came to mind was the difference in meaning the term "maybe" had when comparing my mother and father.
When my father said "maybe", it meant maybe. It meant that he was not able to answer at the time for a variety of reasons, but there was for sure a chance the outcome could be favorable. If my father answered "no", that was the end of it. It was not to be discussed further.
But if my mother said "maybe", what she actually meant was "no". When my mother said "maybe", what she really meant was "no, but if I say no you will keep asking me until I get angry or give in, but if I say maybe you won't keep asking me". There was never a time that I recall when my mother said "maybe" and the outcome was positive. Maybe always meant no.
I believe it has a lot to do with the difference between how men and women communicate. Women don't like to close the door by making a firm decision too early. They are more likely to wait and see what benefits them the most. Men are ok with weighing the available information and making a decision and sticking with it, right or wrong.
I realize these are generalizations and many people do not fit into these stereotypes, but at the same time it's not altogether no true either. I mean, I doubt there are many that would deny that men and women think about things differently and deal with things differently.
So it got me to thinking about what I say. Do I say what I mean? Or do I have code that I use to avoid certain subjects, whether it be making a decision about something my kids ask me for, or something else? I suspect I do, but I can't be sure. In some ways I behave like a stereotypical woman, but in other ways I behave like a stereotypical man.
So do we mean what we say? I don't really have any answers but really just wanted to hear what experiences all of you may have had in this regard.
Love Aways,
Elizabeth
Do we mean what we say?
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Elizabeth
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Sylvia H
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Interesting topic.
I cant speak for the yes no maybe thing, But it reminds me of another male female word interpretation issue.
I think it was the Men are from Mars.. books regarding the male / female interpretation of the word "can". As in "Can you do this for me?" A male will respond to this statement as a challenge, rather than as a generic request. Women were advised to use the word "will" in place of "can" so as to remove that challenge and requisite aggressive response.
I can easily see this in practice. Quite obvious if you think about it, but goes unnoticed by most.
xox
Sylvia
I cant speak for the yes no maybe thing, But it reminds me of another male female word interpretation issue.
I think it was the Men are from Mars.. books regarding the male / female interpretation of the word "can". As in "Can you do this for me?" A male will respond to this statement as a challenge, rather than as a generic request. Women were advised to use the word "will" in place of "can" so as to remove that challenge and requisite aggressive response.
I can easily see this in practice. Quite obvious if you think about it, but goes unnoticed by most.
xox
Sylvia
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Elizabeth
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Sylvia,
That is funny because I almost never ask some "can" you do something for me. In fact I have always gone by the saying "can't means won't". I always used to tell apprentices "Don't tell me you can't do it, tell me you won't. Are you telling me that it can not be done? That I need to go tell the owners we are going to leave here without doing it because it simply can't be done?"
To which they would always reply "no". And I would then say "so it can be done?". To which they would reply "yes". To which I always replied "well if I have to do my work and your work, what do I need you for?".
Almost without fail if I am asking another person to do something, whether it's asking one of my kids or wife to get me a glass of tea or an employee to perform some task, it always starts with 'will you please?". Or "would you mind?". First, it sounds nice and more like we are a team. Second I am asking, not demanding. I have found that people respond better to this method.
Now I am not saying that intimidating people and ordering them around under continual thread of layoff or being fired doesn't work. I have seen it work tremendously well. It's just that I always felt that work was something I had to do, so why not make it as pleasant as possible. If people don't feel threatened and are happy at work, they are more productive. Plus , I don't have the stress of having to pressure people all the time with negative energy.
I always was an anomaly in construction. I was not mean and did not try to intimidate people. I was always respectful and tried to make work safe and as pleasant as it could be, sometimes under very difficult circumstances. But when you treat people good, they treat you good back. They build pride in what they do and don't miss important deadlines when asked to step up to meet such deadlines. They do it because you ask them to. Because they like having the challenge and taking the credit.
Every day, I thanked the people who worked for me. I thanked them for their hard work. Even when I knew someone may have not had their best day. I wanted them to be their best, because that is what would make the man the most money. And that would make me look good. And I was never turned down in my entire career when I asked to give someone who worked for me a raise.
My management style was much more like a woman than a man. Many of the "macho" type guys had trouble working for me because I don't really respond to that kind of thing. I was more likely to fire someone for not following safety protocol, whereas many companies reward people with praise when they do something faster by ignoring safety.
I saved one company over $150,000 a year directly to their bottom line by reducing their workman's compensation from 10.5% to 5.5% by not having a reportable accident for two years. That is not to mention the savings of not having any lost time. It also improves a companies credit rating. But $150,000 of free money just by working safe and creating a better place to work. On top of that, because I was known as someone who insisted on working safe, all the top workers wanted to work for me.
In the end, I turned around an electrical contractor that was losing money, into a real money maker. A place with bad moral to a place with good morale. But it all started by saying "will" instead of "can".
Love always,
Elizabeth
That is funny because I almost never ask some "can" you do something for me. In fact I have always gone by the saying "can't means won't". I always used to tell apprentices "Don't tell me you can't do it, tell me you won't. Are you telling me that it can not be done? That I need to go tell the owners we are going to leave here without doing it because it simply can't be done?"
To which they would always reply "no". And I would then say "so it can be done?". To which they would reply "yes". To which I always replied "well if I have to do my work and your work, what do I need you for?".
Almost without fail if I am asking another person to do something, whether it's asking one of my kids or wife to get me a glass of tea or an employee to perform some task, it always starts with 'will you please?". Or "would you mind?". First, it sounds nice and more like we are a team. Second I am asking, not demanding. I have found that people respond better to this method.
Now I am not saying that intimidating people and ordering them around under continual thread of layoff or being fired doesn't work. I have seen it work tremendously well. It's just that I always felt that work was something I had to do, so why not make it as pleasant as possible. If people don't feel threatened and are happy at work, they are more productive. Plus , I don't have the stress of having to pressure people all the time with negative energy.
I always was an anomaly in construction. I was not mean and did not try to intimidate people. I was always respectful and tried to make work safe and as pleasant as it could be, sometimes under very difficult circumstances. But when you treat people good, they treat you good back. They build pride in what they do and don't miss important deadlines when asked to step up to meet such deadlines. They do it because you ask them to. Because they like having the challenge and taking the credit.
Every day, I thanked the people who worked for me. I thanked them for their hard work. Even when I knew someone may have not had their best day. I wanted them to be their best, because that is what would make the man the most money. And that would make me look good. And I was never turned down in my entire career when I asked to give someone who worked for me a raise.
My management style was much more like a woman than a man. Many of the "macho" type guys had trouble working for me because I don't really respond to that kind of thing. I was more likely to fire someone for not following safety protocol, whereas many companies reward people with praise when they do something faster by ignoring safety.
I saved one company over $150,000 a year directly to their bottom line by reducing their workman's compensation from 10.5% to 5.5% by not having a reportable accident for two years. That is not to mention the savings of not having any lost time. It also improves a companies credit rating. But $150,000 of free money just by working safe and creating a better place to work. On top of that, because I was known as someone who insisted on working safe, all the top workers wanted to work for me.
In the end, I turned around an electrical contractor that was losing money, into a real money maker. A place with bad moral to a place with good morale. But it all started by saying "will" instead of "can".
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
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And what are we learning? 
My theory is being slowly, gradually pieced together. We are the next phase in human evolution.
Just the mere fact that there are those of us on the continuum who recognize that our individual thought process varies within our own comprehension of responses, ain't it great.
This does not happen overnight. In keeping with the (one of many) reasons that we are the way we are, that we were born this way and the fact that the complexities of the human brain is far beyond our ability to understand, yet we see responses like this emerge.
Yes, I think it is an acceptable conclusion that men and women think and respond differently to the same stimulus, why can't one brain have a bit of both to draw from in response to a given stimulus?
We could go on for pages like which is more dominate in any given person with "the gift?" But the mere fact that some can recognize that this variance to stimulus can and does exist within one person - that is so cool!!!!
I have on numerous occasions, after something happens, have taken the time to analyse my response to an event. "Why did I say, do, respond like that to that?" In a lot of instances my response was what would be considered to be a feminine response and I love it!
From the movie "The Devil's Advocate" "We're comin' out -- guns blazin!"
Love ya,
Virginia
My theory is being slowly, gradually pieced together. We are the next phase in human evolution.
Just the mere fact that there are those of us on the continuum who recognize that our individual thought process varies within our own comprehension of responses, ain't it great.
This does not happen overnight. In keeping with the (one of many) reasons that we are the way we are, that we were born this way and the fact that the complexities of the human brain is far beyond our ability to understand, yet we see responses like this emerge.
Yes, I think it is an acceptable conclusion that men and women think and respond differently to the same stimulus, why can't one brain have a bit of both to draw from in response to a given stimulus?
We could go on for pages like which is more dominate in any given person with "the gift?" But the mere fact that some can recognize that this variance to stimulus can and does exist within one person - that is so cool!!!!
I have on numerous occasions, after something happens, have taken the time to analyse my response to an event. "Why did I say, do, respond like that to that?" In a lot of instances my response was what would be considered to be a feminine response and I love it!
From the movie "The Devil's Advocate" "We're comin' out -- guns blazin!"
Love ya,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
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Connie
- Miss Golden Goddess
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I know that when some one asks me "Can you do this" I'll think yes, I am able to do it, but WILL I. Being asked "will" means that they are asking my disposition as to doing something.
I also find that people with whom I work start out by asking, "Will you do me a favor" which really is rhetorical as I don't really have a choice but to do what they ask.
Of course there are also those who ask "Can I ask you a question?" To which I will answer, "You just did."
Anyway, since I seem to spend, and have spent, most of my time around women working and whatnot, I know I usually try to approach things like a woman does.
Connie
"I said what I meant and I meant what I said ..."
Horton the elephant
I also find that people with whom I work start out by asking, "Will you do me a favor" which really is rhetorical as I don't really have a choice but to do what they ask.
Of course there are also those who ask "Can I ask you a question?" To which I will answer, "You just did."
Anyway, since I seem to spend, and have spent, most of my time around women working and whatnot, I know I usually try to approach things like a woman does.
Connie
"I said what I meant and I meant what I said ..."
Horton the elephant
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Carolynn
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"You Just Don't Understand: Women and Men in Conversation" by Deborah Tannen
available through Amazon.com. This is a good book and pertinent to the present conversation.
I read this in an autobiography: A director who was well known for making commercials transitoned. She reported that after her transition, on her first project, she walked onto the set and started telling the MEN on the set what she WANTED. She directed that certain specifiec intensity lights should be set in certain places with tracks and bracing, and so forth and certain scenery items, basically micromanaging as she had always done. After two days, they were no closer to shooting than they had been on the day she walked on set, not even the set lighting was properly finished. She went home and thought about it, wondering why things were so different.
When she returned the next day, she walked on the set, called a couple of people over, and kinda waving her arms generally, said she would like to see some lights (no specificity in what lights) covering a given area, it would be nice to have some closeup lights aimed to highlight the actors faces, and some nice scenery background in an area, and some good camera angles to cover the primary shoot area, and then walked over to her chair and sat down. In 4 hours, the set was ready to shoot, lighting was perfect, the scenery was set up to give illusions of depth to the sound stage and all.
She concluded that the difference was that Men were not used to a woman knowing all the specifics and micromanaging and it confused the poor dears, whereas as a woman, she just said what she would like to see and let the crew bosses get the work done, trusting in the professionalism of her crew that it would be done. She said it was much less stressful to get what she wanted that way, and she usually came in on or ahead of time and underbudget. She also, as Elizabeth said, made a point of thanking each member of the crew for a smooth shoot and made sure she knew them by their first and last names and what their responsibilites were.
I usually did the same thing with my division on the naval ship I was on in the 1960's, which really messed with the ex-chief petty officer department head who had "augmented" to the officer rank and was a hands on kind of guy just as he had been as a chief. The men were well trained and well led by good petty officers, and I could best do my job by staying out of their way. Usually worked well, unless he interferred.
Love, Carolynn
available through Amazon.com. This is a good book and pertinent to the present conversation.
I read this in an autobiography: A director who was well known for making commercials transitoned. She reported that after her transition, on her first project, she walked onto the set and started telling the MEN on the set what she WANTED. She directed that certain specifiec intensity lights should be set in certain places with tracks and bracing, and so forth and certain scenery items, basically micromanaging as she had always done. After two days, they were no closer to shooting than they had been on the day she walked on set, not even the set lighting was properly finished. She went home and thought about it, wondering why things were so different.
When she returned the next day, she walked on the set, called a couple of people over, and kinda waving her arms generally, said she would like to see some lights (no specificity in what lights) covering a given area, it would be nice to have some closeup lights aimed to highlight the actors faces, and some nice scenery background in an area, and some good camera angles to cover the primary shoot area, and then walked over to her chair and sat down. In 4 hours, the set was ready to shoot, lighting was perfect, the scenery was set up to give illusions of depth to the sound stage and all.
She concluded that the difference was that Men were not used to a woman knowing all the specifics and micromanaging and it confused the poor dears, whereas as a woman, she just said what she would like to see and let the crew bosses get the work done, trusting in the professionalism of her crew that it would be done. She said it was much less stressful to get what she wanted that way, and she usually came in on or ahead of time and underbudget. She also, as Elizabeth said, made a point of thanking each member of the crew for a smooth shoot and made sure she knew them by their first and last names and what their responsibilites were.
I usually did the same thing with my division on the naval ship I was on in the 1960's, which really messed with the ex-chief petty officer department head who had "augmented" to the officer rank and was a hands on kind of guy just as he had been as a chief. The men were well trained and well led by good petty officers, and I could best do my job by staying out of their way. Usually worked well, unless he interferred.
Love, Carolynn
"It’s not given to anyone to have no regrets; only to decide, through the choices we make, which regrets we’ll have,"
David Weber – In Fury Born
David Weber – In Fury Born
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Sunshine Girl(SO)
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Re: Do we mean what we say?
Hiya Elizabeth...
Just my thoughts on this issue.
Also, by answering you with a "yes", she has left her husband out of the equation. A "maybe" will give her time to get his views on the subject. This thought is not always as up front with men.
Of course, his affirmative answer can always be over ridden with the women's reply of, "Don't EVEN go there!"
LOL.
Sunny
Just my thoughts on this issue.
The use of the word "no" is confrontational and the word "maybe" is a truce. Women tend to be less aggressive than men. They take the same time to make the decision as a man does, but they don't want a fight. The man is willing to take on the fight.Elizabeth wrote: I believe it has a lot to do with the difference between how men and women communicate. Women don't like to close the door by making a firm decision too early. They are more likely to wait and see what benefits them the most. Men are ok with weighing the available information and making a decision and sticking with it, right or wrong.
Also, by answering you with a "yes", she has left her husband out of the equation. A "maybe" will give her time to get his views on the subject. This thought is not always as up front with men.
Of course, his affirmative answer can always be over ridden with the women's reply of, "Don't EVEN go there!"
LOL.Sunny
Just a country girl that's married to a real sweetheart and has come to understand his needs.
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Georgia(SO)
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What I'm curious about is this - why were the men on the lighting crew willing to accept micromangement from a man but not from a woman???
No, I'm not being sarcastic, nor spoiling for a fight. I'm curious why it is easier for men to accept that sort of management style from a man than it is from a woman?
-g(so)
No, I'm not being sarcastic, nor spoiling for a fight. I'm curious why it is easier for men to accept that sort of management style from a man than it is from a woman?
-g(so)
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Sunshine Girl(SO)
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Sylvia H
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My personality too has always been to induce cooperation rather than confrontation. I also struggle with trying to balance my emotional side with this male training to ignore it. Has caused some periodic problems in various situations over the years.
"Maybe" doesn't find its way into my vocabulary very often at all unless I am trying to be oblique with someone on purpose Yes, no,I don't know being preferred.
I know this sounds geeky, but there you have it. I read a lot about brain functions, neurology, behavioral sciences, etc. For those who are interested there is
The Female Brain, by Louann Brizendine MD, 2006, Broadway Books
For a good synopsis of how complex all the "wiring" is I highly recommend
The Ownwers Manual for the Brain, by Pierce J. Howard PhD, 2007, Bard Press. It is thick, and has practical application at the end of every chapter and is pretty easy to read considering the subject material.
Cool thread!!
xox
Sylvia
"Maybe" doesn't find its way into my vocabulary very often at all unless I am trying to be oblique with someone on purpose Yes, no,I don't know being preferred.
I know this sounds geeky, but there you have it. I read a lot about brain functions, neurology, behavioral sciences, etc. For those who are interested there is
The Female Brain, by Louann Brizendine MD, 2006, Broadway Books
For a good synopsis of how complex all the "wiring" is I highly recommend
The Ownwers Manual for the Brain, by Pierce J. Howard PhD, 2007, Bard Press. It is thick, and has practical application at the end of every chapter and is pretty easy to read considering the subject material.
Cool thread!!
xox
Sylvia
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Elizabeth
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Sunshine Girl,
Thanks, you put it a lot more smoothly than me, and it took you a lot less words. But yes, I think it really is about avoiding confrontation. But more than that, it's what you said about making a "truce". Women like when there is no or minimal conflict. And I don't mean kid stuff, I mean the stuff that is stressful.
I hate confrontations, especially with men. Before I came out of the closet, every time I was in a conflict with a man, there is a risk that it could become physical. And it can escalate really quickly. I have found myself looking at the wrong end of a gun, more than once. But I am not a fighter. I become overwhelmed with adrenaline, my mouth goes completely dry and I can't speak because I forget to breath. Even raised voices can cause this.
I am much more of a hunker down type. I want to avoid not just fights, but everything that happens before a fight. The nice thing since I went full time is that no one expects me to be a man. I am no longer challenged by other men. As a woman, I concede physical superiority to men. As a result, men also don't have a problem opening a door for me. I always thank them and smile. I don't want them to feel foolish for opening a door for me. I want it to all seem natural. And here in CA, it really is.
Anyway, thanks for your insights it's always nice to hear the voice of the SO's and GG's.
Love always,
Elizabeth
Thanks, you put it a lot more smoothly than me, and it took you a lot less words. But yes, I think it really is about avoiding confrontation. But more than that, it's what you said about making a "truce". Women like when there is no or minimal conflict. And I don't mean kid stuff, I mean the stuff that is stressful.
I hate confrontations, especially with men. Before I came out of the closet, every time I was in a conflict with a man, there is a risk that it could become physical. And it can escalate really quickly. I have found myself looking at the wrong end of a gun, more than once. But I am not a fighter. I become overwhelmed with adrenaline, my mouth goes completely dry and I can't speak because I forget to breath. Even raised voices can cause this.
I am much more of a hunker down type. I want to avoid not just fights, but everything that happens before a fight. The nice thing since I went full time is that no one expects me to be a man. I am no longer challenged by other men. As a woman, I concede physical superiority to men. As a result, men also don't have a problem opening a door for me. I always thank them and smile. I don't want them to feel foolish for opening a door for me. I want it to all seem natural. And here in CA, it really is.
Anyway, thanks for your insights it's always nice to hear the voice of the SO's and GG's.
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Absaroka
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I usually use maybe as maybe, or I will have to think about it, or I don't want to decide right now. However my children have gotten to the point where they think maybe means no even when I really mean maybe.
I find that I tend to express myself differently to different people. I think you could make a good point that not only do men and women often speak differently, they speak differently to each other as well.
It's funny how there is usually a best way to express things to any given person. If my wife asks if a dress looks nice on her, the right answer is not yes. The right answer is the truth. Sometimes there is after all something obviously wrong with the dress that even on a woman as beautiful as her the dress does not look nice. But all that gets said in the intangibles of speech, not the actual words.
Absaroka
I find that I tend to express myself differently to different people. I think you could make a good point that not only do men and women often speak differently, they speak differently to each other as well.
It's funny how there is usually a best way to express things to any given person. If my wife asks if a dress looks nice on her, the right answer is not yes. The right answer is the truth. Sometimes there is after all something obviously wrong with the dress that even on a woman as beautiful as her the dress does not look nice. But all that gets said in the intangibles of speech, not the actual words.
Absaroka
everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
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DanteCarrie (FTM)
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to me maybe means ......maybe. as in 1)yeh possibly 2) I'm saying maybe cas i didn't hear what you said 3) maybe in that I'm really that indecisive
my male partner can say no and it means NO and other times it means I'm saying no cas i can't be arsed to think about it and I'm probably going to say yes later....conclusion males and females are the same mentally...the best ones anyway.
my male partner can say no and it means NO and other times it means I'm saying no cas i can't be arsed to think about it and I'm probably going to say yes later....conclusion males and females are the same mentally...the best ones anyway.
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Absaroka
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Here's another one. "I'll try". When I say this in my professional capacity, or in work around the house or other physical stuff, it means I'll give it my best shot but it may not work and maybe we have to come up with plan B. However for both my wife and I, for emotional issues it really means I'm going to try to placate or distract you without actually doing what you want. "I'll try to remember" is a surefire guarantee of forgetting.
This caused a lot of confusion for us when we were dating, before we figured it out. My wife still does it, as in "will you do this for me?" "I'll try (no)" as opposed to "can you do this for me?" "Yes I can but I don't want to". Over the years I've adopted the same strategy, for two reasons. One is I often over time tend to chameleon a bit, that is adapt my style to the other person, and two, is a somewhat juvenile tit for tat.
Another is "I'm not comfortable with that" Which sometimes means "I won't do it, but other times I'll do it but I don't like the idea. Lots of confusion there, with my wife tending towards using it as a tactful no and me using it as "I'll do it to show you how wrong you are"
Zari
This caused a lot of confusion for us when we were dating, before we figured it out. My wife still does it, as in "will you do this for me?" "I'll try (no)" as opposed to "can you do this for me?" "Yes I can but I don't want to". Over the years I've adopted the same strategy, for two reasons. One is I often over time tend to chameleon a bit, that is adapt my style to the other person, and two, is a somewhat juvenile tit for tat.
Another is "I'm not comfortable with that" Which sometimes means "I won't do it, but other times I'll do it but I don't like the idea. Lots of confusion there, with my wife tending towards using it as a tactful no and me using it as "I'll do it to show you how wrong you are"
Zari
everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon