Decisions

Talk about anything else: your pets, your car, movies, celebrities, or other things you like. As a reminder, political and religious discussions do not belong in here, nor any other topics that may incite a heated debate! As always keep it clean, please.

Moderators: KimberlyS, Celia

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Violet
Miss Platinum Goddess
Posts: 300
Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:24 pm
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada

Post by Violet »

the persons who are served will more often express themselves when they are dissatisfied than when they are satisfied. That asymmetry is hard to avoid, but it surely makes a moderator feel less appreciated than she really is.
!!!yes!!! Be aware that for every person who complains and harshes you out, there are ten or twenty who are entirely satisfied with what's going on.

I am aware that sometimes I skate 'close to the edge', if not straight over... I don't feel that I have ever been unfairly stepped on, but then, I don't make a practice of arguing with the moderator. If I weren't happy with the way this forum was controlled, I wouldn't even be here. I also have never yet seen anything I would consider to be an overt flame or troll here (and in over 15 years of netizenship, I've seen some doozies!) I think you are doing a great job, Beauty; keep up the good work.
"There's something wrong with him. He should be mine, but he's not. His madness... his madness keeps him sane..."
Delirium, 'the Sandman', Niel Gaiman
INSANE GOTHIK DIVA SYNDROME
Elizabeth
Miss Ruby Goddess
Posts: 1878
Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am

Post by Elizabeth »

Hi Beauty,

Since I have been here I have been totally supportive of your moderating. In fact I have PM'd you on several occasions to thank you for doing a thankless job.

And even when you pulled posts of mine, that you said were not in violation, but just out of character for me, I deferred to your judgement to keep them out, even though you told me I could put them back. And of course, once the emotions subsided, it was clrear to me that you were correct.

For me this is not a question of whether or not you are a good moderator. You know I think you are. Do I think there is favoritism? At times I certainly do. Perhaps you don't feel that way, and maybe it's all in my head, but I do feel that certain people are allowed to act in a manner not consistant with the rules of this forum.

But it is more than that. I am not looking to see if someone followed the letter of the rules and is in a grey area. I have made it very clear that I would like to see the mission of this Forum stated as being about support. Not about trying to spread some political ideology that never changes anyone's mind.

I am not saying there is not room for politcal or religious discussion, I think it should be limited to personal experience. For instance, if you are not permitted to use a women's restroom that would be permitted, but if your City passed a law banning such use, that would not be permitted. You get asked to leave church for being in female attire? That is permitted, however discussion of how some national church was voting to ban such things would not.

I have watched since before the American elections as this political chat started. I have been against it every step of the of way. And I predicted what it would lead to, and it has.

I have seen no benifit from it, other than to satisfy the needs of a few people to debate. It has not helped anyone heal. It has not advanced the cause of crossdressing. What is has done is led to lots of hard feelings, and many members leaving. I guess I just need someone to show me what benifit this forum gets from it, that makes it worth the cost.

I have talked to several of the SO's, some of whom have left, and they told me it is nothing more than men doing what they always do. Mindless arguing and competing or subjects that none of them have any control over.

This is not about moderating, when I came here it was rare to see the moderator have to ever take any action. People were nice. They did not try to pick apart what others were saying. They did not look for what was wrong with a post, they looked for what was right about it. There was not an attitude about being right at all cost. There was an attitude that we can each have our own view and still support each other in a loving and caring way.

It is disingenuous to come here and offend someone on a politcai thread and think you are going to be able to offer support later. Perhaps those who think this debate is so important should spend the $10 a month, and the $14 to register a domain and start up "Crosserdressers-Politiical-Debate-Forum" and let everyone who is interessted in it go there. I mean if their feelings are so strong about it's importance to the civil rights of crossdressers, let them back that up with the effort to support such a cause. As opposed to hijacking this forum.

I really love this place, there is no equal. But I would rather leave than to feel the anger and upset that I have had to feel watching it dissinigrate into the continual arguing, backbiting, and picking at each other that it has become. The status quo is not good enough for me. I really do want the rules followed, and the negativity to be stopped. I would like to see it stated that the mission of this forum is support, not political and religious discussions.

For those of you who I have offended or hurt, I would like to extend my deepest and most sincere apology. I can't excuse myself for that, but I can say that it was only my heart felt emotions for this place that drove my emotions.

I would love nothing more than to stay in this wonderful place, but I can't if it is to stay the way it has been lately. It just makes me feel bad to come here and see what it has become. So I guess I will just lurk for a while and see if any real change comes about. There is nothing more for me to say. Everyone knows how I feel.

Love always,
Elizabeth
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Anita
Miss Diamond Goddess
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:55 pm
Location: Burlingame, CA (San Francisco Bay area)

Post by Anita »

Hi Beauty--
I have no bones to pick with your moderating. It's been quite some time since I got edited, and I had no big objections to those edits at the time.
You have a big job to do, and I think you do it well.

I'm not aware of your deletions, so it's hard to judge the fairness of that. Only those who get deleted argue with you about that. I said in another post that I'd like to see more warnings as opposed to deletions. With warnings, we all get to see what the content in question is about.

However, it's easy for me to say that--after I thought about it, I saw that it takes more time to issue warnings, because you have to explain them publicly. Deletions, you only need explain to the one who posted it.

That's all I have to say about it right now.
Beauty
Retired Site Administrator
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Post by Beauty »

Since I have been here I have been totally supportive of your moderating. In fact I have PM'd you on several occasions to thank you for doing a thankless job.

You're welcome Elizabeth :)

For me this is not a question of whether or not you are a good moderator. You know I think you are. Do I think there is favoritism? At times I certainly do. Perhaps you don't feel that way, and maybe it's all in my head, but I do feel that certain people are allowed to act in a manner not consistant with the rules of this forum.

I apologize if it sounded like I was asking about if I'm good or not. The point of this thread was to talk about removing posts that are flames. I feel almost everyone who has chimed in, by a majority told me they trust my actions as you said you had before.

But it is more than that. I am not looking to see if someone followed the letter of the rules and is in a grey area. I have made it very clear that I would like to see the mission of this Forum stated as being about support. Not about trying to spread some political ideology that never changes anyone's mind.

This is not going to happen Elizabeth. :? The top of the page says it all, "Welcome to the Crossdressers-Forum, A friendly place for all" and it also says "A place to talk about crossdressing for CD's, SO's, Friends and Family. That's all the statement stuff we're going to do. No one is trying to persuade anyone else. Those who engage in debates are usually trying to say their idea/point is better. I think it was said several times in the Soup Kitchen thread what you're trying to do is change forum member's minds. Like I said earlier in this thread it's all the way you view your own actions as a forum member. Everyone thinks they are right and each has a really good argument that is the case. Those who oppose those ideas think they have the perfect rebuttal. John Thomas disease on both counts. ;)

I am not saying there is not room for politcal or religious discussion, I think it should be limited to personal experience. For instance, if you are not permitted to use a women's restroom that would be permitted, but if your City passed a law banning such use, that would not be permitted. You get asked to leave church for being in female attire? That is permitted, however discussion of how some national church was voting to ban such things would not.

I'm sorry again, but I don't see how that relates to the forum other than your idea of what you feel the forum should be. I respect what you'd like it to be sweetie, but it's going to be whatever it wants, but it will not digress from the two statements I quoted above.

I have watched since before the American elections as this political chat started. I have been against it every step of the of way. And I predicted what it would lead to, and it has.

Cool I wasn't alone. :)

I have seen no benifit from it, other than to satisfy the needs of a few people to debate. It has not helped anyone heal. It has not advanced the cause of crossdressing. What is has done is led to lots of hard feelings, and many members leaving. I guess I just need someone to show me what benifit this forum gets from it, that makes it worth the cost.

The benefit is someone gets to speak their mind. Now we have a place called Mordor where people can have these discussions.

I have talked to several of the SO's, some of whom have left, and they told me it is nothing more than men doing what they always do. Mindless arguing and competing or subjects that none of them have any control over.

That's odd. I've talked to them too and they support change and don't have a good bye forever attitude, but more of an I'll be back when things tone down and some who are gone for ever. Hopefully they will change their minds and come back when I go back to removing flames.

This is not about moderating, when I came here it was rare to see the moderator have to ever take any action. People were nice. They did not try to pick apart what others were saying. They did not look for what was wrong with a post, they looked for what was right about it. There was not an attitude about being right at all cost. There was an attitude that we can each have our own view and still support each other in a loving and caring way.

When there were less people, yes it was easier to moderate. However I guess you didn't know about the time I had to beg Shannon and Sharon not to shut the forum down because of the bickering. It was days away from being shut down. This kind of upsetness happens in phases and almost every forum I've been a part of. :(

It is disingenuous to come here and offend someone on a politcai thread and think you are going to be able to offer support later. Perhaps those who think this debate is so important should spend the $10 a month, and the $14 to register a domain and start up "Crosserdressers-Politiical-Debate-Forum" and let everyone who is interessted in it go there. I mean if their feelings are so strong about it's importance to the civil rights of crossdressers, let them back that up with the effort to support such a cause. As opposed to hijacking this forum.

The forum is not being hijacked in my opinion. More people don't mind about these kinds of discussions that those who do. It's just that everyone feels everyone could be more polite to each other regardless of the kind of debate.

I really love this place, there is no equal. But I would rather leave than to feel the anger and upset that I have had to feel watching it dissinigrate into the continual arguing, backbiting, and picking at each other that it has become. The status quo is not good enough for me. I really do want the rules followed, and the negativity to be stopped. I would like to see it stated that the mission of this forum is support, not political and religious discussions.

We love you and are happy to have you stay. The forum isn't disintegrating it's changing and evolving. I kind of already said before that these kinds of discussions have happened over and over. You remember when you went through the spell where your home life made it to the forum? We were all here for you, but some of the things you said to others were really not kind and everyone forgave you and we moved on and grew together. The forum didn't change though. We've had tens of thousands of posts since then. It's all subjective for me. I didn't understand what you meant by the status quo statement though? :? If you'd like to see the negativity stopped stick around. The mission is stated and it is a support forum. I don't think anyone thinks it's not a support forum. We've taken steps to isolate the topics you talked about in Mordor. If you were a member of Mordor I would have moved your Soup Kitchen thread there. That was a mistake by me not to.

For those of you who I have offended or hurt, I would like to extend my deepest and most sincere apology. I can't excuse myself for that, but I can say that it was only my heart felt emotions for this place that drove my emotions.

That's the Elizabeth that I like the mostest.

I would love nothing more than to stay in this wonderful place, but I can't if it is to stay the way it has been lately. It just makes me feel bad to come here and see what it has become. So I guess I will just lurk for a while and see if any real change comes about. There is nothing more for me to say. Everyone knows how I feel.

I'd be sad to see you go, but if you're not happy here please lurk around and see if you think things change? The forum hasn't become anything more than it's ever been. I've heard how bad the forum is getting after 3 months of being here and it continues a year and a half later.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Love you too

Beauty
Beauty
Retired Site Administrator
Posts: 3662
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:30 am
Location: Northern VA
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Post by Beauty »

Anita wrote:Hi Beauty--
I have no bones to pick with your moderating. It's been quite some time since I got edited, and I had no big objections to those edits at the time.
You have a big job to do, and I think you do it well.

I'm not aware of your deletions, so it's hard to judge the fairness of that. Only those who get deleted argue with you about that. I said in another post that I'd like to see more warnings as opposed to deletions. With warnings, we all get to see what the content in question is about.

However, it's easy for me to say that--after I thought about it, I saw that it takes more time to issue warnings, because you have to explain them publicly. Deletions, you only need explain to the one who posted it.

That's all I have to say about it right now.
Hi Anita,

I agree with you and unless it's a repeat offender I do generally remove or edit posts and notify the user. It's a high ninety percent kind of thing too that I notify someone.

The fairness part is subjective. Some think I'm out to get them personally and as you can still see some think I have favorites, even if I don't know it. #-o That's one of those I can't win scenarios. :)

You're right if I remove a post and say why publically I think, especially if they agree with me, it wasn't handled correctly or I wasn't as polite as I could have been.

Thanks for your input!!!
(--)
Beauty
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KimberlyS
Site Administrator
Posts: 3341
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:01 pm
Location: North Central USA, SD

Post by KimberlyS »

Beauty and the rest of the moderators; I think that all of you are doing an excellent job here. Just remember that you will never be able to make 100% of the people happy 100% of the time. Just moderate how you believe the Forum rules guide you. And if you question your self you only need to answer to or ask the other moderators for help or guidance.

Because even if you would give everyone here a new femme wardrobe, some one would complain about some thing. wrong colors, wrong season, wrong size, no place to put it, what would i do with my old one, ....

Doing a great job all of you !!!!!!!!


KimberlyS - CD
Site Administrator

I am a physically male person that likes to wear feminine clothes at times.
Just trying keep a balance for my self along with keeping my wife and kids in mind.
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Jadeanne
Miss Ruby Goddess
Posts: 1059
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:19 pm
Location: Western NY, USA

Post by Jadeanne »

On the very front page of this website is a link to a page entitled entitled About Us. It is easy to just pass it over, but I think it should be read by every member who visits here. I'm going to take the liberty of quoting what I consider the most important parts here:
Our Goal:

To provide an open, honest, and respectful web based forum for people to discuss issues relating to crossdressing. We want to welcome crossdressers (MTF and FTM), spouses and Significant Others (SO's) of all ages, backgrounds and beliefs.

We want this website to be a friendly and warm place where we can all get together and share our experiences. A place where we can laugh and cry, teach and learn, and lend a helping hand when needed. A place where we can all grow into better individuals who can better accept ourselves and who we are, and for the rest of us to become more tolerant and open minded.
and
For years we have searched the internet to find a place that we could get support and call home but we came up empty handed. So that is the main reason that we started this forum. This is our home now and we hope you will make it yours.

We want to welcome all to participate in this forum as long as you follow the rules listed.

Rules:

* No bashing or flaming

* No dating service

* No pornography

* No commercial postings unless permission is given by the Administrators

* No "converting" those who haven't accepted what you believe
There was originally a 6th rule, which restricted membership to heterosexuals only, but that rule was soon removed by Sharon and Shannon upon requests from the members, so our Administrators definitely listen to us.

Beauty,

I think you are doing an excellent job as an adminstrator and moderator.

I am comfortable with your decisions and the decisions of all of the other administrators and moderators in keeping this the place I call my Internet home.

Jadeanne
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Kyra
Miss Ruby Goddess
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Post by Kyra »

Doin a great job, Girl. =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

I think your moral compass is "dead on, balls eye, accurate!"

My input: Find one of those doctors who are doing secret cloning experiments and duplicate yourself 3 or 4 times! :lol:
No, seriously, I know being a Mod is no easy job. I don't envy your position at all. I honestly don't know how you do it, sometimes. I've a pretty good temperament, and there are times when I have wanted to just scream.

So to you, Beauty and CJ and Love and Sharon and Shannon... I bow in admiration and respect. Y'all are doing the very best job in the world.

My dearest hugs,
Kyra
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. - Leonardo DaVinci
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