Why are so many unhappy with the forum?

Kerri · Post by **Kerri** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:45 pm

Shannon ,

I dont think of this as a forum, I think of it more as a community.
We may be seperated by a few thousand miles of ocean but I feel at home here, like I have never done before. This is the longest I have stayed in one place in ten years of web surfing.

I trust the people here.

Take care

Kerri

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:46 pm

So where are those of which you speak Shannon?
I agree with most everyone who posted here, A few of the statements in particular are:

I really don't think anybody left because they were unhappy with the forum. More than likely there are other issues as well.

You can't make everyone happy all of the time. All you can do is try to make the majority of people happy. So far it seems like you have achieved that goal.

You're keeping up with requests for change, and you're doing it by consensus. That seems like good administration to me.

Love Darlene.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:23 pm

Hi Shannon,

I have voiced my opinion on this subject on several occasions, most recently in my "Our Soup Kitchen" thread.

http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... highlight=

I also instigated the moving of Mordor, Although i was a proponent for it's removal, I found to eventual solution to be acceptable, and helpful to the forum.

http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... highlight=

And not long after I first got here, I messaged Sharon to suggest that the SO other section be made private so they could talk without being evesdropped on. I was replied to that, that was not a good idea. So for me, seeing the most recent changes to the SO other section, this is a good thing and beleive it will help the SO section to grow into a place that really focuses on the healing of the SO's not just how it affects us crossdressers.

And this is a fundemetal point. The reason being, twice you(Shannon) have been the instigator of what I could best describe as "Crossdresser vs. SO's", when you posted about things that upset you that you read in the SO other section. These were very hostile posts in my opinion. This was my response to the first one back on May 12, 2004.

Elizabeth wrote:

I have to say this is making me very uneasy. I am now afraid this will end in an explosion that could end this beautiful place. I know that I would not want my marriage on public display, but that is just me. I don't know that a couple can separate thier private life from the things that we need to talk about. I must admit I felt that Saron(SO) must be the most secure person on this planet to be able to do this. Not that others have not bared thier soles, they certainly have. Just that to be able to come here and put her marriage, her privacy, and her life on public display so some poor girl like me can find a way to live with myself. Well I would like to think I could be that kind of person some day. I am a terribly insecure person who has really come to enjoy coming here so I can become the person I always wanted to be. But this bickering and hostile tone I hear in the words of both of you, is really scaring me. I would hope that patience, kindness, and empathy could replace anger, frustration, fear. That is why I come here. Thanks in advance
Elizabeth

I remember feeling very much afraid that you and Sharon would end up in a fight that would cause you to end the forum. At the time I was totally lost and in need of the support of this forum. Your anger was so opposite of what I had experienced here. I am sure reading my words up above you can practically hear the fear in my voice.

Then more recently in your "Been trying to word this for a week" post

http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... ght=#47590

While i totally understand the intent of your post, you also made it clear that SO's were not going to be able to say how they feel without being called to account for what they say. The issue was not wether of not what they said was true. the issue was could they say it just because they felt it.
And while your post was friendly in general, it ended up conveying that it was going to be ok to attack each other for what we are feeling, despite the fact that, that was not your intention.

Many times we all have feelings about things that are not the correct perception of what is going on. It does not change the fact that we feel it. In this regard hiding the SO section is a great idea. It allows all the SO's to post what they are feeling without having to worry they are going to offend "their" crossdresser. Sometimes they need to say things that they don't want us to hear. If they didn't ? They would not need support, they could just talk to us about it.

I guess in closing we have seen some members leave or just not post as much. I know for me personally I have felt a lot of the "loving feeling" was missing. For others there have been hurt feelings and the changes to the forum come too late for them. When I look back at what drew me to this place, and why I stayed? It is simple. I felt loved and accepted. I felt like the people here really cared about me. I think there have been some distractions from that, but I do feel the love is still here. I do think there has to be some more changes though. I think every member has to be valued no more than any other member . And lose the attitude that it does not matter if members leave because new members are joining everyday to replace them. I have heard that said. I know I don't want to feel like I am just and attendence number that can be replaced. Because if that is all I am? Than indeed I don't belong here. Having said all that. I have seen significant positive change that I beleive will help restore this place to what it was for me. "A soup kitchen". I welcome the tougher moderating and see all the changes as positive and necessary and if I were to change any other thing, it weould be just to make it the primary mission of this forum "Support". And I would add to the rules one that was removed from your original rules. In your oriiginal rules that you posted in an announcement, which was later removed when you stopped being administrator was "Be Nice". It used to be a rule. I would like to see this rule added back. And any post that is not "nice", removed. There is no topic so serious that it can not be discussed nicely.

I hope this will be taken in the positive way I have intended it. I do not desire to critisize, but admire the changes that have been made, and hope that the loving feeling of this place will continue as it always has.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Kyra · Post by **Kyra** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:14 am

Hey Shannon,

First and foremost are congratulations. What you've done with this forum (with a little help) has been a most saving grace for many crossdressers - myself included. Thank you so much.

I am both delighted and dismayed with the forum as of late. I honestly don't know if there's anything you can do to prevent what is happening. With so many people registered and active, personalities are bound to clash.
Kerri's right, this is a community. Let's face fact: There is no perfect community. We all "live" here and must learn to get along. One might think this to be the role of the moderators. Beauty is a great moderator. But it's my opinion that her job is not to babysit. We should all be adult enough to moderate our own posts. I used to have a plaque on my wall that said "Be sure brain is in gear before putting mouth into motion." I can't simplify it anymore than that. We (ALL OF US) should be considerate of how our posts will affect everyone. There are ways of making a point without being brutal.

So how do we get everyone to "Play nice"? I don't know. Maybe this is what growing pains are all about. I can only hope that this is short lived. This is my home too.

I was sad to see the SO section hidden. Why? I rarely go there. It's not a part of the forum I frequent unless there's something specific I'm looking for. So why did it upset me? The SO section is one of the traits that makes this forum so special. Any lurker can see this section and I'm sure many SOs found comfort in reading it before they actually registered. Now that its hidden, I suspect a drop in new members joining the SO ranks. Just my take on it. (Lurkers lurk for a reason)

Gee, this all sounds so negative. Here's a positive note: We're closing in on 1000 members! Wow!

I remember when I first joined. I remember the relief I felt. I remember that warm feeling of "Not being alone" It still makes me feel good. It make me feel good every time I see a newcomer post for the first time.

Soooo, I guess that's all I have to say. No helpful suggestions, just my point of view. Sorry

Hugs,
Kyra

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:41 am

Well,

I wasn't going to say anything, but with everyone giving you kudos for "running" the forum (with a little help) I can't hold back my feelings anymore. So I could be fired after I post this, but oh well. Holding my tongue sure hasn't helped me get any public respect by you until I've had enough and leave.

Shannon you did start this forum and I am happy to be a member of this community. Though you do seem to mention that you started the forum, it was also partly Sharon's idea too. Without her there's no SO role in this part of the forum. Who cares who started it? All I care about is the people who come here for support and need our help.

I've only publicly left once and the inspiration for my departure was a thread you started that was similar to the last one that turned the forum into a negativity pit. I moved the post to a non-viewable area because of the intense negativity and you publicly yelled and both myself and Sharon instead of asking either of us in private what happened. I would have moved the last one too, but I guess part of me remembers that event and was paralyzed to not take action on the forum.

You did apologize and I came back only after you I believed that apology was sincere. You also promised you would leave day to day running of the forum to myself and Sharon. When you made that promise I accepted the role of Admin. Actually you said you would leave the forum all together and I suggested we create a title of Founder. I felt this would allow people to still have a respect for you, but know you aren't around in the day to day role and that was Sharon and I.

Both events Elizabeth mentioned were completely opposite of what you said you wanted from the forum. I wanted to cry after the last event because the you, founder of the forum, destroyed all of the hard work by the members, mods and admins by flaming those who responded to your post. The replies were very caring and you weren't careful about your responses and you offended the majority (not all) of the SOs. At that moment it felt like all the work Sharon and I did to restore the forum to where it was before your last thread, was lost and we had to start all over. The perception again became, "Why has this forum become so negative? Why isn't it like it was before?" Meanwhile the numbers clearly showed that the supportive posts were more than 100 to 1 in favor of support or having fun in the forum. Still the perception of negativity was alive and I was helpless to stop it, nor was I aided by your replies to the SOs.

It took a lot of will power not to leave then. (I don't want a pat on the back) Instead I decided to ask the members what decisions they wanted me to make. I've been implementing those changes with the help of the loyal members and we are almost back to where we were before your post that had some SOs and members leave. (again, I don't want a pat on the back) I am just starting to realize that no one realizes really what i do here.

Anyway now over 3 weeks later I read this thread asking why people are leaving the forum and what you can do without at least me knowing about it. This thread totally broke my heart and my spirit. You weren't here to clean it up and you weren't here the last time either it was Sharon and I. This time or the last time you never, privately or publicly, gave any thanks to myself or Sharon for ridding the forum of the negativity, but you have accepted kudos from others for running the forum over and over. I don't ask anyone for moral support for being a mod here, but it is not easy doing this job and then having someone who is the founder receiving credit for the hard work I've done. I guess it reminds me of all the jobs I've had in my life where I do everything in my power to make my boss look good and instead of saying thanks they take the credit and then tries to implement new ideas.

The loving feeling Elizabeth talked about being gone I don't agree with, but I do agree with almost everything else she had to say in her post about the two negative events that are associated with you. Elizabeth reminded me of how open you've been about things in your own relationship here and shared things that I would have been uncomfy with so I feel I'm following your example to be open about something that should be discussed in private.

I started my own forum over a year ago because I wasn't sure how long this forum would be around or how long it would be before you got angry and removed the entire forum. I don't promote it or really invite people because I think this place is the best support forum on the web.

So you asked for help. To help I'd like to see two changes. I'd like to see is you giving more credit to the members, Sharon, and myself for keeping things relatively positive if you ever post things that start a heated debate on the forum and I'd also like to see you moderate yourself more and not reply to posts with anger and above all else, also as Elizabeth stated, please "be nice".

I'll borrow from what Elizabeth said above, "I hope this will be taken in the positive way I have intended it. I do not desire to criticize."

Carol Ann · Post by **Carol Ann** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:55 am

Hi Shanon, I like a lot of my sisters am in no way unhappy with the forum.
Now I will admit I don't post as often as I once did but I'm still around. My love to you

Carol Ann

Shannon · Post by **Shannon** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 12:14 pm

Beauty,

Okay.

Violet · Post by **Violet** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:22 pm

I think that this forum is one of the best, and most supportive, places I have ever seen for people struggling with a deep and agonizing personal issue. I think that very supportive atmosphere, with the large amount of moderation it requires, seems to magnify these issues of personality conflict until they lose all proportion. In the very short time that I have been an active member here, there have been at least three instances of a member saying that 'the forum needs to be changed because it's not like it was before' and two instances of a moderator begging in hand-wringing anguish 'what can i do to make you all happy?' In every case, the majority opinion seems to have been that the forum is great and that the mods are doing a wonderful job, and that sometimes people get into catfights and it's a shame but there's nothing more that can really be done than is already being done, and that if we can all just remeber to be adults and think before we slam someone down, that atmosphere of support and freedom can be maintained. Personally, I have never seen what the problem is. Most of the things that get treated as 'flames' here, would pass without comment in a wide variety of other froums I have been a member of - even many other forums professedly dedicated to support. I don't think there is any reason to be insecure. You're doing a great job.

Shannon · Post by **Shannon** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:43 pm

Just to let every one know, I appreciate all the comments and dispite what Beauty implied, I was not looking for "pats on the back".... I truly want to know if there is something that needs to change.....

Because of the comments made, I have realized what needs to change and it shall be done. I doubt you will notice the change, as many have said...

"It ain't broke, so don't fix it"

This will be a very minor change that none will notice, but it should make the forum like "it used to be"

We should all give Beauty the MUCH deserved thanks she has earned for her unwavering dedication to this forum that she and Sharon have turned into the great place it is.

Take care and peace to you all.

Kerri · Post by **Kerri** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 8:17 am

There is a British saying which applies here, "Dont wash your dirty linen in public".

Kerri

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:38 pm

Hi Kerri,

I love the British.

I promise this was the first and last time you'll ever see me do this.

Beauty

Jamie Ann · Post by **Jamie Ann** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:39 pm

In my case, I am not dissatisfied in any way that is important enough for me to leave the forum. In the ideal utopian world, of course, I would wish for a forum in which most of the regular contributors had accepted themselves as TGed and had thought through the implications of that acceptance. A smaller number would be newcomers to CDing who were looking for assurance and support. Here, I would guess that 75% of the contributors are not in either of those categories. Those who subtly or not so subtly indicate that they see CDing as a “sin” or a “weakness” obviously are not in the first category, and probably are not in the second category, either. Those whose political and/or religious views have not been adjusted to accommodate the realities of gender diversity also fall outside what ideally would be the core of a crossdressing forum. Finally, I would ideally want more genuine dialog. There is too much “blind posting” in which the original poster has no serious intention of following up and engaging in a bona fide dialog. In fact, the forum rules (“no converting” and the like) discourage authentic dialog.

Having said these things, however, I also think that any forum has to be evaluated in comparison with other, similar forums; and this one stacks up quite well. Clearly, the moderators are doing something right.

Jadeanne · Post by **Jadeanne** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:44 pm

Beauty,

I read your post in another thread that it you 5 hours to do the wording of your Sunday 6:41 AM post.

If I were in your shoes, it would probably take me a lot longer than that.

I know it helps at least me that what's happened behind the scenes is now out in the open.

We should move on from here and be the friendly, supporting, positive place that I love.

This is my personal view.

Jadeanne

Absaroka · Post by **Absaroka** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:53 pm

I was surprised at this topic. I pretty much like the forum and in my experience I think it is run pretty well

Thanks for all your hard work

Andrea

Lorna · Post by **Lorna** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:05 pm

Hi Shannon,

Like many others here, I have no complaints about the forum. I think that any place on the web where a large group of people come to exchange ideas and experiences, there will often come times when certain folks won't like what other folks have to say or do, and will hit some rough patches every so often. But we always overcome.

Those brief moments of difficulty are forgotten every time we read one another's posts about everything from a new outfit, or a public outing to spousal problems and creative thoughts and ideas.

And it can never be said enough here (or in any message forum on the internet for that matter) but Shannon, I think that you & all the mods here are doing a fantastic job!