Danille, on the contrary . . . we have girls here in dire economic trouble . . . finger pointing for a lot of this can be pointed towards bentonville arkansas.
besides if somebody was to mention a retailer that was a bit uneithical (fraud, slave labor overseas, crooked, bankrupt, et al) one would expect feedback from others pointing out the potenital danger before they lay down their hard earned money. So Danielle, are you suggesting walmart should be extempt from criticism in threads where suggestions are made for buying things at walmart?
What if you had suggested the Raspberry Beret? This is a popular online clothing outlet frequented by many TG people . . . for a while there they were out of business yet money still changing hands and website still operational. If you had suggested this outlet as a source for shoes, would it had been proper for me to inform members of the potiental downside of purchasing from them?
Buying items from either The Raspberry Beret and WalMart puts your pocketbook at risk. Proceed with caution.
Alexandra Talks Economy
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Ridge
- Miss Sapphire Goddess
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Alex:
The US is a democratic republic with a free-market economy. It has neen this way for over 225 years and hopefully will continue this way for another 225 years. In such an economy, supply and demand are the governing factors. If there is a demand for a product, some company will provide it; if the price is too high another company will provide it cheaper to garner more sales. Walmart is the prototype company for this economy.
Having been a small business owner for over 10 years, I understand the impact Walmart may have on a community - good and bad. But no one forced me to start my business; no one guaranteed me an income; no one is guaranteed a job. The Walmarts of the US can dictate certain ways of doing business, but small businesses still account for over 80% of all business.
The American dream for many people is to start and operate their own business. According to Forbes Billionaire list, this concept is alive and well (some examples: Bill Gates (Microsoft)-dropped out of Harvard) Steve Jobs (Apple)- college drop out; Mark Cuban (Dallas Mavericks) do-com; Sam Walton family (Walmarts); Donald Trump (real estate); J.K. Rowling (Harry Potter).
I am a product of the 1960s and Vietnam. Some people protested against the war - that was their right. Others proclaimed "America: Love it or leave it." That was their right.
But not many people can truthfully say that America is not the land of opportunity, and this is because of the economy opportunities we have.
If one is to criticise, then one must be prepared to offer an alternative to improve the situation. If no alternative is offered, then one should remain silent until such time as a positive alternative can be offered. (Paraphrasing an old saying.)
Ridge
The US is a democratic republic with a free-market economy. It has neen this way for over 225 years and hopefully will continue this way for another 225 years. In such an economy, supply and demand are the governing factors. If there is a demand for a product, some company will provide it; if the price is too high another company will provide it cheaper to garner more sales. Walmart is the prototype company for this economy.
Having been a small business owner for over 10 years, I understand the impact Walmart may have on a community - good and bad. But no one forced me to start my business; no one guaranteed me an income; no one is guaranteed a job. The Walmarts of the US can dictate certain ways of doing business, but small businesses still account for over 80% of all business.
The American dream for many people is to start and operate their own business. According to Forbes Billionaire list, this concept is alive and well (some examples: Bill Gates (Microsoft)-dropped out of Harvard) Steve Jobs (Apple)- college drop out; Mark Cuban (Dallas Mavericks) do-com; Sam Walton family (Walmarts); Donald Trump (real estate); J.K. Rowling (Harry Potter).
I am a product of the 1960s and Vietnam. Some people protested against the war - that was their right. Others proclaimed "America: Love it or leave it." That was their right.
But not many people can truthfully say that America is not the land of opportunity, and this is because of the economy opportunities we have.
If one is to criticise, then one must be prepared to offer an alternative to improve the situation. If no alternative is offered, then one should remain silent until such time as a positive alternative can be offered. (Paraphrasing an old saying.)
Ridge
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Ridge
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Yes I understand she is not American but the concept is that she came from rags to extreme riches from merely penning stories about a guy names Harry.
The last time I looked, people don't refer to this type of change as the French Dream or the Spanish dream or the British dream. It is the American Dream no matter where it occurs.
Can anyone explain to me why the American dream, and the economics that drive it, must be trashed? I can understand why those of years past stated: "America love it or leave it." It has been very good to most Americans. If someone believes there is a better place, then please go there and achieve the same results.
Ridge
The last time I looked, people don't refer to this type of change as the French Dream or the Spanish dream or the British dream. It is the American Dream no matter where it occurs.
Can anyone explain to me why the American dream, and the economics that drive it, must be trashed? I can understand why those of years past stated: "America love it or leave it." It has been very good to most Americans. If someone believes there is a better place, then please go there and achieve the same results.
Ridge
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Celia
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The little political and economic debate you and Alexandra are having is neither here nor there, Ridge; but when I saw the proclamation that I've quoted above, I simply couldn't resist putting in my two cents.Ridge wrote:.
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If one is to criticise, then one must be prepared to offer an alternative to improve the situation. If no alternative is offered, then one should remain silent until such time as a positive alternative can be offered. (Paraphrasing an old saying.)
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If someone tells me that he has a means of trisecting an angle or squaring a circle using strictly Euclidean methods or that he has a complete, consistent, first-order theory of arithmetic, then it is quite sufficient for me to say "Hogwash!" and bid him good day. There is no obligation for me (or anyone else in such a situation) to offer an alternative, for there is none.
In slightly less technical terms: if, when someone asserts to me that he can rollerskate in a buffalo herd or put a banana up his nose, I say "Bull****!", then I'm under no obligation to even continue the conversation (though I might kindly suggest the "alternative" of seeking professional help).
If I see someone has a flat tire, is it better for me to remain silent about it simply because I might not be in a position to help him repair it? We can address criticism, ignore it, refute it, etc.; but stifling it by placing an undue burden on those who would offer it is an expensively bad idea. Let's not make a social habit of it.
Yours,
Celia
Only the young die young.
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Loretta Ann
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Ridge you make a valid point there.
All of the people I know of who have visited other countries have reported that we have it better over here. In fact they report that we don't know just how much better it is here.
And I agree with you that it is easier to find things that appear wrong, than it is to present a workable solution to the things they see as wrong.
I also realize that we can discuss this here until we are blue in the face, and will not change other peoples minds, but I do enjoy reading most of what has been posted here about this subject, and have learned some things from it.
PS. The way you word your posts have improved considerably.
All of the people I know of who have visited other countries have reported that we have it better over here. In fact they report that we don't know just how much better it is here.
And I agree with you that it is easier to find things that appear wrong, than it is to present a workable solution to the things they see as wrong.
I also realize that we can discuss this here until we are blue in the face, and will not change other peoples minds, but I do enjoy reading most of what has been posted here about this subject, and have learned some things from it.
PS. The way you word your posts have improved considerably.
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Beauty
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Alexandra
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we have steered off topic . . . my post is an informative inquiry asking if we are to inform members/readers possible negative consequences of buying from retailers suggested in this forum. yes or no?
Darlene, "positive alternatives" exist. Go shopping at Safeway, Albertson, QFC, Ralphs, Fred Meyer and other Kroger-owned stores instead. Our society has an abundence of companies deserving of our dollars.
Sure, businesses can do whatever they wish legally *Alexandra has owned a business for 14 years*, but likewise, society can react in anger (check your newspapers about walmart stories from disgrunted employees, business owners, neighbors, taxpayers, you name it). This a free society for EVERYBODY!
What exactly what is wrong with WalMart some of you may be asking?
Simply this: Their business model, if copied by other businesses would bankrupt our society.
For example, focusing on health care -- 86 to 95% of WalMart employees do not have/or can't afford to buy health care. Yet they do get sick and have emergencies like the rest of us. Who is then paying for their medical treatment? The rest of society. If more businesses copied the WalMart model, soon there would be no society to care of those in dire need of medical attention.
Every dollar spent at WalMart results in an increased cost for health care for ALL Americans. (that $.03 cents you save at WalMart came from somewhere!)
Have a good day!
Darlene, "positive alternatives" exist. Go shopping at Safeway, Albertson, QFC, Ralphs, Fred Meyer and other Kroger-owned stores instead. Our society has an abundence of companies deserving of our dollars.
Sure, businesses can do whatever they wish legally *Alexandra has owned a business for 14 years*, but likewise, society can react in anger (check your newspapers about walmart stories from disgrunted employees, business owners, neighbors, taxpayers, you name it). This a free society for EVERYBODY!
What exactly what is wrong with WalMart some of you may be asking?
Simply this: Their business model, if copied by other businesses would bankrupt our society.
For example, focusing on health care -- 86 to 95% of WalMart employees do not have/or can't afford to buy health care. Yet they do get sick and have emergencies like the rest of us. Who is then paying for their medical treatment? The rest of society. If more businesses copied the WalMart model, soon there would be no society to care of those in dire need of medical attention.
Every dollar spent at WalMart results in an increased cost for health care for ALL Americans. (that $.03 cents you save at WalMart came from somewhere!)
Have a good day!
Alexandra
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Loretta Ann
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Alexandra.
I do not dispute the information you have provided about Wal-Mart.
What I question is will the "positive alternatives" you have suggested work? I have not seen it work in the sixty years that I have been on this planet. Have You? I have run across many who would like to try and convince me that they would if only everyone would get on board, but that never seems to happen.
I wonder why?
I do not dispute the information you have provided about Wal-Mart.
What I question is will the "positive alternatives" you have suggested work? I have not seen it work in the sixty years that I have been on this planet. Have You? I have run across many who would like to try and convince me that they would if only everyone would get on board, but that never seems to happen.
I wonder why?
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Alexandra
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Darlene,
Sure they'll work. Case in point: Kmart.
In the mid-70's Kmart was the nation's largest retailer and retail employer. they carried, and still carry, the same brands as everybody else. They're bankrupt today -- a shell of their former selves. WalMart is K-Mart with a positive spin (the WalMart smilie, the WalMart cheer, et al).
One could argue that Kmart was poorly run, but one doesn't become the largest retailer by being poorly run. Organized labor revealed the extent of Kmart's greed to the public (Kmart would CLOSE any store that became unionized -- sometimes later just open a new one down the block!!!, non-union of course), Kmart misjudged the American people and later their own business model imploded on them when virtually nobody wanted to work at Kmart. The poor customer service reputation nightmare that followed was their own doing.
Sure they'll work. Case in point: Kmart.
In the mid-70's Kmart was the nation's largest retailer and retail employer. they carried, and still carry, the same brands as everybody else. They're bankrupt today -- a shell of their former selves. WalMart is K-Mart with a positive spin (the WalMart smilie, the WalMart cheer, et al).
One could argue that Kmart was poorly run, but one doesn't become the largest retailer by being poorly run. Organized labor revealed the extent of Kmart's greed to the public (Kmart would CLOSE any store that became unionized -- sometimes later just open a new one down the block!!!, non-union of course), Kmart misjudged the American people and later their own business model imploded on them when virtually nobody wanted to work at Kmart. The poor customer service reputation nightmare that followed was their own doing.
Alexandra
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Loretta Ann
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Curly(SO)
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Ridge,
The last time I looked, no successful European I know, has ever referred to their 'Rags to Riches' tales as an American Dream either.
It is very patronizing to suggest that success and wealth anywhere in the world is 'The American Dream.' Just as I would not suggest that corporatism, corruption and greed is unique to America.
While I will refrain from getting involved in a debate about American politics/economics, I would appreciate you bearing in mind that non-Americans are members of this forum, so a bit of respect would be nice. Both you and Darlene have inferred that America is a "better place" to be.
Curly(SO)
The last time I looked, no successful European I know, has ever referred to their 'Rags to Riches' tales as an American Dream either.
It is very patronizing to suggest that success and wealth anywhere in the world is 'The American Dream.' Just as I would not suggest that corporatism, corruption and greed is unique to America.While I will refrain from getting involved in a debate about American politics/economics, I would appreciate you bearing in mind that non-Americans are members of this forum, so a bit of respect would be nice. Both you and Darlene have inferred that America is a "better place" to be.
Curly(SO)
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Jessie
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Alexandra
Just some info to add this may a little off subject but I think it should be mentioned. First Even thought Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard (or where ever) he was by in no was come from a down troden. He comes from a lot of wealth. His father has a large Law Firm in Seattle (a friend of mine worked for the law firm for a while). Second KMART has reorganzied and is now out of banruptcy. There probably was that the opened up to many stores and then the look and the feel of the made many people embarrassed to even aproach them. This has now been fixed some what.
Just to add my two cents in the town I went to college when Walmart opened there store right next door to KMART and people flocked to Walmart because it had a better feel to it. (I believe).
Just some knowledge I thought I would add.
Jessie
Just some info to add this may a little off subject but I think it should be mentioned. First Even thought Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard (or where ever) he was by in no was come from a down troden. He comes from a lot of wealth. His father has a large Law Firm in Seattle (a friend of mine worked for the law firm for a while). Second KMART has reorganzied and is now out of banruptcy. There probably was that the opened up to many stores and then the look and the feel of the made many people embarrassed to even aproach them. This has now been fixed some what.
Just to add my two cents in the town I went to college when Walmart opened there store right next door to KMART and people flocked to Walmart because it had a better feel to it. (I believe).
Just some knowledge I thought I would add.
Jessie
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Ridge
- Miss Sapphire Goddess
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- Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:58 am
We are talking about the American economy, and yes, the rest of the world does have good economies. But none are as dominant in the world village as the American economy.
As to the issue of Walmart, etc. People have many choices in their lives: where to live, where to work and where to shop. No one is forced to work at Walmart - there are many alternatives. If Walmart does not pay healthcare then people know that going in. No one is owed healthcare. I pay my own heathcare, with no drug coverage. Currently my meds for my brain tumor cost about $700 per month- all out of my pocket. I pay $2200 per brain scan out of pocket. But I do not complain because I knew that when I bought the healthcare plan.
If Walmart does not want to have unionized shops, then they have the right as a company to do so. If the consumer does not want to shop there because of this decision, then that is their right. Walmart found the secret a long time ago (as did Marshall Fields in Chicago): the customer is always right. Make the customer happy and your company will flourish, unionized or not. The days of "customer-no-service" by many companies are short because corporate America understands the need to satify the customer. Granted it is profit-oriented, but what isn't these days.
It is my understanding that Bill Gates and the Walton family also give back to the community: they are generous philanthropists. Microsoft and Walmart are generally perceived to be positve corporate models. Many businesses want to succedd as they have. Not a bad goal.
The American economy is not perfect by design. If you want a perfect economy - try communism. But then you see that did not last because people want and strive under capitalism.
Ridge
As to the issue of Walmart, etc. People have many choices in their lives: where to live, where to work and where to shop. No one is forced to work at Walmart - there are many alternatives. If Walmart does not pay healthcare then people know that going in. No one is owed healthcare. I pay my own heathcare, with no drug coverage. Currently my meds for my brain tumor cost about $700 per month- all out of my pocket. I pay $2200 per brain scan out of pocket. But I do not complain because I knew that when I bought the healthcare plan.
If Walmart does not want to have unionized shops, then they have the right as a company to do so. If the consumer does not want to shop there because of this decision, then that is their right. Walmart found the secret a long time ago (as did Marshall Fields in Chicago): the customer is always right. Make the customer happy and your company will flourish, unionized or not. The days of "customer-no-service" by many companies are short because corporate America understands the need to satify the customer. Granted it is profit-oriented, but what isn't these days.
It is my understanding that Bill Gates and the Walton family also give back to the community: they are generous philanthropists. Microsoft and Walmart are generally perceived to be positve corporate models. Many businesses want to succedd as they have. Not a bad goal.
The American economy is not perfect by design. If you want a perfect economy - try communism. But then you see that did not last because people want and strive under capitalism.
Ridge
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Loretta Ann
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Curly
I am not an American citizen, and do not live in the USA, I reported what others have told me, and if you find that offensive or disrespectful I am sorry but I will not apologize for that.
If you have information that is opposite, please enlighten me. I do not intentionally try to be disrespectful, but I have found that no matter how hard one tries some one some where will always take it that way. Quit frankly I do not have enough time to worry to much about that, as I have enough issues of my own that need my attention.
I am not an American citizen, and do not live in the USA, I reported what others have told me, and if you find that offensive or disrespectful I am sorry but I will not apologize for that.
If you have information that is opposite, please enlighten me. I do not intentionally try to be disrespectful, but I have found that no matter how hard one tries some one some where will always take it that way. Quit frankly I do not have enough time to worry to much about that, as I have enough issues of my own that need my attention.