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Hi all,

Having just been involved in a thread involving the issue of offensive behavior. I have been left with some thoughts, that I would like to throw out for discussion.

I am aware that we have a tendency to judge what will offend others by the things that offend us. For instance I have had friends say to me that I am upset about a certain event that took place. Where in fact it never fizzed on me. But try and tell them that?

I have experienced one person say some very nasty things to me that were clearly designed to hurt me and in fact get rid of me, from a certain group. Again they were ineffective due to the fact that my security was not dependent upon his evaluation of me. And in fact the group later forced him to apologize to me. or face eviction himself.

What offends one person does not necessarily offend another. Ones persons junk can be another persons treasure.

Do not hurt me by saying something that will offend me can be used as a method to control other people. Preventing a situation from arising where I might need to take responsibility for some of my unhealthy feelings.

What do you all think about this? Lets toss some ideas around. and see what we come up with?

Hi Darlene,

As kids we all learn this simple little phrase to teach us that what others say only hurts us if we allow it to.

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me"

There is some serious wisdom here. And in my opinion, as adults we would all be much better off if we lived our lives in this fashion. However, it is not that easy because of the social setting of our society. Society is set up so that we are segregated for failing to be offended when we are told to, thus keeping the social pecking order in place.

So for many what is at stake is not just the actual thing that may be offensive, but their actual social standing. I have seen this, and it is important to many people that they not offend the person offending them, by not being offended, and accepting thier subjegated role in the social order.

I will give you an example from my own life. I had gone to lunch with my brother who was my business partner, and one of our employees, who then called his wife to meet us. We went to a Mexican restuarant and had a pretty nice lunch. Upon leaving the clerk asked if everything was ok. My brother then complained that he thought it was a little pricey to charge him $3 for what was a dish of about 2 tablespoons of gaucamole. Later that employee told us that his wife told him that she would never go out with us again because my brother embarrassed her so bad by complaining.

Many people eat bad food and accept poor service, and still tip for bad service and not complain when thier food is not prepared correctly, all because they fear that they will be seen as someone who can't be pleased and hence possibly become the subject of talk among others.

I was never liked when I was a kid because I was poor, and I was not good at sports. I guess I learned early not to care what others think. But I know there are many who it is very important to not lose social standing, regardless of what they have to choke down. I would not be included in this group.

Love always,
Elizabeth

I'm with Elizabeth on this, "Sticks and Stones ..." I grew up with kids not liking me, and never had the slightest idea why. I never liked to fight, but am glad my dad taught me how at an early age, as I never lost one to these kids. I can proudly say I never started a fight, but some kids have to get physical if the words don't acheive the effect they are looking for.

As an adult, whipping someones' butt is no longer an option. You never know nowadays who's carrying what kind of weapon.

So, if some one says something offensive about me I simply laugh it off or ignor the fool.

Hi all,

Hmmm. Interesting topic, Darlene. I wonder, though, do you want to make a distinction between intentionally offensive behaviour and unintentionally offensive behaviour? Being rude to someone else is intentional. We have control over that. Being a man walking down the street, dressed as a woman, can be (unintentionally) offensive to others. We have no control over that.

Elizabeth,

I agree with you there. You're entitled to require satisfaction from any good or service you pay for--from restaurants to movies to cars to clothing to ISP's. Maybe the woman was embarrassed because she thought the matter was too trivial to warrant complaining. Your brother didn't do anything wrong. In fact, what he did was necessary, in a way. As someone who's worked in retail for a number of years managing restaurants, I would always sollicit and welcome comments from customers; this kind of feedback is the only way (aside from the daily take) to know how well the business is doing.

About insults and libel and slander, I agree that names will never hurt me, but there are times and situations where words can have dire consequences. "Words are deeds," Wittgenstein once said. There's little difference between what we do (or what others do with and to us) and what we say (or what others say to us). They're both behaviours.

Personally, I don't care what someone calls... just so long as they don't call me in the middle of the night.

Love,
CJ

Interesting topic, indeed.

I'm reminded of a passage from a book I recently read...

Stop being offended. The behavior of others isn't a reason to be immobilized. That which offends you only weakens you. If you're looking for occasions to be offended, you'll find them at every turn. This is your ego at work convincing you that the world shouldn't be the way it is. ... Being offended creates the same destructive energy that offended you in the first place and leads to attack, counterattack, and war. - Dr. Wayne W. Dyer, The Power of Intention

Yes, there will be those who will intentionally try to offend us. They are only showing their own weakness and insecurity. We can choose to ignore them or we could choose to try to help them to overcome their issues. I guess it depends on the situation and the people involved which would be best.

There will always be those who go out of their way to be offended. Confronting them will usually only result in conflict and/or bad feelings. So, we just do our best to just walk away without making a bad situation worse.

Recently there were a couple of cases in the news here involving high school mascots. The first was the Danville Little Indians. This has been their mascot and sports team name for decades. Now, someone comes along and claims to be offended by this "insult to native Americans". The other case was the Brattleboro High School "General". The image of "The General" was of the stereotypical Confederate general with the gray uniform and such. Some person or people declared this to be offensive to "people of color" I believe is how it was stated in the news story.

We seem to be living in an age of over sensitivity with too much emphasis being placed on being politically correct. There seems to be a lot of people out there who are going out of their way to find something to be offended about. Danville High School finally decided to drop the "Little Indian" mascot. I don't remember what they replaced it with. I think it was something like a lion or tiger. Brattleboro kept the "General" mascot but dropped the image entirely. So, they are now the "Generals" in name only.

I mention these stories because they both highlight what Dr. Dyer said about "attack, counterattack, and war". In the weeks and months that these stories were in progress, there were vicious attacks on both sides, both verbally and in print. These two towns were almost literally torn apart. All because one person pointed to a picture on the wall and said "this offends me".

I don't claim to have any answers here. I just wonder if maybe people are just getting too caught up in the little details of their own lives and losing sight of the bigger picture of the world.

I leave you with this final passage from As A Man Thinketh by James Allen:

"How many people we know who sour their lives, who ruin all that is sweet and beautiful by explosive tempers, who destroy their poise of character, and make bad blood! It is a question whether the great majority of people do not ruin their lives and mar their happiness by lack of self-control. How few people we meet in life who are well balanced, who have that exquisite poise which is characteristic of the finished character!"
Yes, humanity surges with uncontrolled passion, is tumultuous with ungoverned grief, is blown about by anxiety and doubt. Only the wise man, only he whose thoughts are controlled and purified, makes the winds and the storms of the soul obey him.
Tempest-tossed souls, wherever ye may live, know this - in the ocean of life the isles of Blessedness are smiling, and the sunny shore of your ideal awaits your coming. Keep your hand firmly upon the helm of thought. In the barque of your soul reclines the commanding Master; He does but sleep; wake Him. Self-control is strength; Right Thought is mastery; Calmness is power. Say unto your heart, "Peace be still!"

Kathy,

That was a great post, and I agree with every word of it. I am a fan of Wayne Dyer myself, and have even talked about those who are looking to be offended in other posts. Granted, there is no shortage of those looking to be offended.

That is the reason I feel it is silly to care what others think. Why would I want to let others decide how I am going to feel?

Anyway, great post.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Needless to say, being offended has become a way of life to a lot of folks and a retirement plan for attornies.
I will take a "leap of faith" here and assume my sister, Darlene would also want the subject of CD/GG brought into the mix. Since I was the centerpiece of the other thread, I want to say that I have definitely learned something from Terri - Hey Earth Shattering News - men and women are different!!!?? Did you know that?? Well we are and my situation was just one minor example. I have however developed, with Virginia's help a lot more empathy for others male or female. We all have our crosses to bear, but as I have said before, if we can help one of our felllow travelers with their cross once in a while, perhaps someone may come along and help us with ours and maybe not! We can try and a lot of us do, but we, and this is somewhat contrary to my theory that we are the next stage in human evolution, we as males just can not totally figure out women. They are not only different from men, but they are different within their own gender, not as much , but more that most of us can understand. They are wonderful, complex. beautiful creatures that we will not understand in our life times.
We as CD'ers may be able to capture the physical nature of the female and even fool other females but it will be a long time before we are able to capture the emotional/mental essence! I will keep trying and Terri SO gave my peek into that aspect and God Bless her, it is a small piece of knowledge that I will cherish/
Love you all,
Virginia

Thanks Sis for contributing here, You are correct I did want that kind of input here. I saw this coming and started this thread because I felt like I was walking on egg shells in the other thread.

And as a result I will be responding here, to some of the things that have been said in the other thread.

Elizabeth honey you have taken some what of a rocky ride over there. I don't think that you missed the point at all. Clearly if you have so have I. along with some other GGs that I know. (note I have said GGs not SOs of CDers) Who have a good understanding of life and have been part of my network of support for the past 18 years.

(even though outwardly you held fast to the "sticks and stones" mantra) and now you have a wall around you which takes the form of the attitude of "I don't need to consider anybody else"

.
For me that statement misses the point. The exact opposite is true, and I do not see Elizabeth as one who dose not consider other people.

I know this is hard for some of you, but it is possible to reach a point or a place where ones security is not dependent upon what other people say. It is not a wall, it is simply not being emotionally affected or disturbed by the reality that some folks will always say and do things that could hurt others.

It is about being free. and when one is free they are more able to be concerned about other people. In direct proportion...The more free...the more concerned.

As cross-dressers most of us are able to realize that it is who we are, and acknowledge the fact that if we are unable to be that we suffer.
Well the exact same principle applies here. If we are forced to live our lives conditioned by others, we will be unable to be who we were created to be, and we will suffer.

Yes we need to hear the words I love you etc. And I have that occurring regularly in my life. But I do not aspire to hear that from everyone. Nor do I want to have a large number of people dependent upon me to meet that need in there life.

It is my wish that others will be able to experience this freedom. and when or if someone refers to you in a derogatory manner that you will simply not be emotionally effected or disturbed by it. (or if you are at least have a safe avenue that will relieve you of that pressure). And it is for that reason that I am the way I am on this forum. Because for me that is a major ingredient for ones happiness.

Love Darlene.

Hi all,

Kathy, Darlene,

Awesome posts. Thanks.

Love,
CJ

Hi Folks

Darlene wrote:

It is my wish that others will be able to experience this freedom. and when or if someone refers to you in a derogatory manner that you will simply not be emotionally effected or disturbed by it. (or if you are at least have a safe avenue that will relieve you of that pressure). And it is for that reason that I am the way I am on this forum. Because for me that is a major ingredient for ones happiness.

I whole heartedly agree

Great post, everyone!!

Myself, I don't get offended very easily, or very often. If I allow someone who may have a derogatory opinion of me to upset me, I feel as if that person holds some control over me. As far as I am concerned, if I like who I see in the mirror, that's the only opinion that matters. I respect and listen to opinions of me, from my family, friends,and Ahzz, but I always take them with a tiny grain of salt As to strangers' opinions of me, I couldn't care less. After all, they don't know me from Eve

*Hugs & Love*

Darlene,

Awesome post. I totally agree with the things you say, and strive to reach a point where I can not be hurt by the words of others. Mostly I am that way, but every now and again I can get very annoyed by a persons self rightious arrogance, and/or unwillingness to accept that other people have other opinions that my differ from their own. The idea that ones own opinion is a fact merely because of believing it, is prevelant in the world in which we live.

I don't feel I took a beating in the other thread, many times in my life I have stood up for the minority point of view, sometimes just because no one else would. I don't fear walking the road alone, because I know there are others out there walking it, even if they are just beyond the horizon and I can not see them. It is quite possible to be in the minority and still have a correct point of view. It's what I refer to affectionately as ENC, or Emperors New Clothes.

I wish I could say that I was to the point of never being offended, that is my goal, and I feel it a worthy goal, but I certainly am not there yet. Unfortunately, I did respond to the other post you mentioned, in a negative way, that normally I do not do, and it was pulled, justifiably so. My apologies to anyone who read it, before it got pulled.

But having said that, I think it does need to be answered when others portray themselves as having the only reasonable opinion, and give the impression that there must be something wrong with a person if they don't see it that way. If for no other reason than to express that there are competing opinions, and that the world can not be painted with one brush.

For a long time now, I have known that there are many decent people who just can not speak against the status quo. Many times in my life I have been asked to address political bodies to speak for my peers. I have addressed City Counsel, I have addressed the County Commisioners, I have addressed the Union leadership, I have addressed the State Electrical Board. I have done these things when asked because of a realization that those who can speak without being emotional, yet can be passionate about what they speak, can be effective. Not everyone has this ability. So whatever your gift is? It is my belief that those who can, should.

I am sure that many of you who have known me for a while can see this philosophy in my posting. I have shared in great detail the most trying events of my life, not because it was pleasant and certainly not because it was not embarassing, but because I could. And those who can, should. It is my beleif that in this way, I can contribute back to all that I has been given to me here by others, that give, just because they can.

My goal personally is to reach a point where I never, ever, lose my composure. Because it is in this way that I am best able to express myself.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth, Darlene,
What can I say ??!! ROCK ON GIRLS!!!!!!!!!!! & GIRL POWER!!!!
Love Love Love -Love is all you need!
Virginia