Crossdressers-Haven.com

Hi all,

Yesterday, I spent my half-day a week at the office. It had been an uneventful afternoon. Then, around 4:30, as I was getting ready to leave, I fielded a call from one of my colleagues' clients who had just made a suicide pact with her husband, a man on my own caseload. I won't go into details for obvious reasons; suffice it to say that, given her situation, I completely understand why she feels the way she does. Still, killing yourself is not an option. It only looks like an option when you believe you've exhausted all other methods of either alleviating your pain or increasing your coping skills. Remaining alive hinges on whether or not that belief is accurate. I spent a half hour on the phone with this woman and later got my colleague (whose client this woman is) to phone her as well; I'll find out later today how things turned out.

It occured to me as I headed for home that, though the subject is mentioned in passing, here on the forum, it's never really been addressed head on. Well, I want to talk about suicide a bit. But first,

If you're feeling suicidal, read this:

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/spagebw.htm

Read the page the link above sends you to; it's chockful of helpful information. Also, you can just do a search on Google, using the keywords, "suicide prevention." It's important to remember that there's always someone out there you can talk to; there's always someone out there willing and able to listen. You need to find that person. Talking about your pain brings a bit of relief, even if only temporarily. For example, in the first few pages of any phone directory, you'll most likely find the number to your local suicide prevention hotline; call that number; talk to someone.

Having said this, I want to highlight some of the material included in the link above in order to emphasize it. It bears repeating. There are harmful (and potentially fatal) myths surrounding suicide. They need to be dispelled.

MYTH: “The people who talk about it don't do it.” FALSE. Most completed suicides gave warning signs that this is where they were heading. Take such talk seriously. Many people think that a suicidal person is trying to emotionally blackmail or manipulate others. Always first assume that this isn't the case.

MYTH: “Anyone who tries to kill himself has got to be crazy.” FALSE. Someone who tries to kill herself is in pain, not crazy.

MYTH: “Those problems weren't enough to commit suicide over." FALSE. Let the person who's living through those problems be the judge of that. We all have our own levels of coping.

MYTH: “If someone is going to kill himself, nothing can stop him.” FALSE. Suicidal behaviour is a cry for help. The person wants to live. It's the pain they want to put an end to. This ambivalence is the key to helping that person.

MYTH: “Talking about it may give someone the idea.” FALSE. That person already has suicidal ideations. Not only do you need to talk about it, you need to ask the person, flat out, if she has a "plan" and if she has the means to carry it out. If both plan and means are present, consider this person at high risk of taking her own life. Do not leave this person alone until the moment of crisis has passed. Something that usually works well is asking the person to enter into a contract with you (verbally or otherwise) whereby she promises to do herself no harm. Insist, if you must.

Suicide is a taboo subject, unfortunately. I think there are many reasons for this. For one, as a society, we're not particularly comfortable with death. We avoid not only talk of it but we actually try to postpone its inevitability by locking ourselves up in a youth-obssessed and anti-ageing culture. Yet, suicide is death come knocking prematurely. Another reason, perhaps, is the ethical environment in which suicide occurs. Our religious or moral beliefs sometimes muddle our thoughts to the point where we're unable to see plainly the raw, naked pain the suicidal person is feeling. That inability costs lives. And we know it. Finally, suicide is taboo because it's a finger pointing to what we suspect (but dare not admit) are failings, both in ourselves, as individuals who knew the completed suicide, and in ourselves, as a society that doesn't do all it can to ensure that life and growth are promoted rather than violence and destructiveness.

That's it. That's all I have to say.

Be well, people. And if you're not well, talk about your feelings to someone.

Love,
CJ

Thanks CJ.

I had to talk a fellow comrade in the Army out of suicide and to talk to the Chaplain, so I know somewhat of how you must have felt. Probably a bit more fearful than I did, because you were on the phone and I was right there.

I sure hope things worked out. If not just remeber you tried your best.

I saw a brief story in yesterday's (11/30) paper (I think it was the LA Times, but might have been the San Diego Union-Trib) that a recent study of high school students had found over ten percent of them had attempted suicide. Attempted. Not considered, ATTEMPTED! Could that be true, or do you suppose the kids were playing mind games with the surveyors?
Ten percent! [shaking head]
.......Tamara Segunda

Hi CJ,

As many of you know, I have had several bouts of suicidal thoughts this year, and even attemted to kill myself on one of these occasions by overdosing on vicodin.

Here is the related thread when I told everyone here, what I had done.

http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... ght=#19434

I very much wanted to be dead. I have an illness with the primary symptoms being pain, fatigue, the inability to sleep very much and most importantly, depression. In addition to this I knew my marriage was coming to an end, and I was overwhelmed with all kinds of emotions caused by facing my crossdressing, accepting I was a transexual or at minimum a transgenderist. My life was nothing but emotional and physical pain. It just became too much. I started thinking about the inevitablity of my death anyway, and quicky rationalized that there was no point in living this incredible life of pain, with what I seen as no payoff. Fortunately my beleif that taking the entire bottle of vicodin would make me throw up, saved my life, as I took a dose that was not enough to kill me, but enough to make me very ill for a few days.

I came here for support and told my therapist, and my brother and managed to get through the crisis. But it was not long until my beleif that my wife was having an affair, was confirmed, and I was again feeling very suicidal. I took off walking in the middle of the night, with the intention of throwing myself in front of a large vehicle on the freeway, about a mile from my house. I was crying uncontrolably, and everything felt very hopeless. I climbed to the top of the freeway and hid just below where any driver would be able to see me. My intention was to time it so they would have no chance to stop, ensuring it would be over quickly and certainly. However, I just could not overcome my basic survival instinct. This made me feel even more hopeless. I truely wanted to end it, was not even "man enough" to kill myself. I sat at the bottom of the freeway for a while, still crying, and eventually walked home.

I still wanted to kill myself, and considered taking more pain meds, which I had plenty of, to finish the job. However when I arrived home, everyone was aware that I had left was were looking for me. They had taken my pain meds and hidden them. I felt like a total loser. I now wanted to be dead more than ever. I went to my bed and laid down but could not stop the uncontollable sobbing.

My children were all very upset, and one at a time came in to tell me they loved me, and that I needed to get some help, which I refused. My wife finally came in and told me that I had to get some help, that this was really hurting our children. I finally reluctanty agreed to go to the hospital.

Here is a link to me telling the forum about this.

http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... ght=#28721

It is difficult to talk about my feelings about this, because I know that so many out there do believe it is just emotional blackmail. That if I really wanted to kill myself, I would have. All I can say is that, I really wanted to be dead. I kept thinking of the movie "they shoot horses, dont' they" where a woman finally talks her dance partner into killing her, because she wants to be dead, but can not overcome her instinct to survive. That is what I needed, someone to kill me.

I considered suicide by cop, forcing the cops to kill me. But when the opportunity came, my son would not leave my side, protecting me. This is so hard to talk about, I am crying just trying to tell you about it.

And again in September, which I was too ashamed to tell any of you about, again I became dispondent and left the house with 180 pain pills with the intention of killing myself, in the middle of the night. I woke my wife up in the middle of the night, at her boyfreinds house to tell her, so she could go and get my son. I told her not to bury me in boy clothes, and to take my life insurance money and buy a house. She tired to tak me out of it, she was telling me how much my kids still needed thier dad, even diasabled, even as a crossdresser. That even with all these disadvantages, even if I did not want to live, I owed it to my kids to live, that I had no right to abandon them. Finally I hung up on her, and turned off my cell phone, because I knew she would call the police, and I did not want them to be able to find me.

But it was too late. the crisis was subsiding, she got to me. I was already thinking about what she said about me not having the right to be selfish, that when I had them, I had decided that they came before me. And it was wrong for me to cash in my pain, and give it to them. And that became my reason to live. That is what I needed. a reason. I had it rationalized that I was making thier life worse. Now, I know that is not true.

I don't kid myself anymore, I know that I have depression, and that trying to deny that has been part of the problem. Learning to recongize when my depression is talking, and not me. Learning to talk to someone when I first start having these thoughts, before they snowball. There are triggers, you can learn to avoid this whole line of thinking. As soon as my thoughts start containing "infinitives", words that have meanings the brain can not comprehend, like "always" and "never" I realize my thinking is incorrect. There are other triggers too, almost all negative thinking is generally unrealistic and leads to inccrrect thinking.

I have been feeling much better lately. I watch for the triggers, I don't hold in my emotions any more. When something makes me sad, I allow myself to feel that, then I feel better and don't have these huge downs where I experience all my sadness that I have been holding in at once. I feel sad, maybe cry, then feel better.

In one of my dispondent moments I wrote the online suicide prevention. For those of you who may be suffering in silence I will share with you what that very kind person wrote me. I did not save the email, but I will try to quote it from memory.

"Dear Rudy,

I am sorry that you are feeling so sad but I do need to make clear that I am not here to talk you out of killing yourself. In fact I fully admit that if you intend to do so, I will make no effort to stop you. I am here to tell you that when you are having feelings of suicide it is because you have reached a point of hopelessness. And again I am not here to give you hope. What I am here for is to tell you that no one can save you from yourself except you. You need to find something that give you hope, or I fear you will kill yourself. There is help, you can go to a hospital or you can seek other professional help, you can find hope.

Sorry if that is not the answer you wanted to hear, but that is the only anwer I have."

I have to admit I was somewhat stunned by this response, I was not expecting to be told to help myself, if I could do that, I would not be writing a helpline. I was angry and thought that I had accidentally went to a site that was run by inexperienced and very unprofessional people. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized he was right. No one could save me. But how could I save me, when I was the one that wanted to be dead. It seemed like a paradox. Well, the only way is hope. You have to find one thing. One thing that you can hope for. It does not have to be a reality right now, but just one thing that could be. That is all you need.

I am sorry this is so long, but as we approach the Holidays, I know this is a time when people become depressed, having to have contact with people they normally don't have to, and expectations they normally dont' have, that suicides are higher this time of year. If you are having these feelings, find someone to talk to. Anyone, even a stranger. It may surprise you what little thing can give you hope. and that is all you need.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth--
Those were harsh times you lived through. Takes some courage to write about them here; as you noted, you felt ashamed of them at the time.

I have never been able to believe that suicide finishes it all; that is, the pain ceases and you stop existing. If I had been able to think that was true, suicide might have been more tempting in years past. I have no hard data to back up this belief, but it's always been strong for me. Drug trips and near-death accidents showed me that consciousness seems to go on, and that what's happening in this life is but a small portion of a larger whole. That larger whole is not heaven or hell, as far as I can tell--it just exists.

Please don't put me in Mordor. I'm just explaining how I came to this feeling.


That said, I spent a good portion of my life doing slow suicide: being apathetic, doing chemicals in potentially lethel doses for sport, and other foolish stuff that I don't care to talk about.

To deal with my own depression, I found that I had to pay attention to even the smallest setbacks. CJ's post is to the point--what seems trivial to you may be overwhelming to me. I have to always be on the lookout for that seemingly small disappointment that begins to snowball if I don't catch it at the beginning. It took years for this point to sink in. On good days, it doesn't matter so much. I've got lots of energy, and I can just ride over the little potholes in the road.

But on the bad days, I catch each negative thought as it comes, and I label it, and then set it aside. Sound tedious? It's not as bad as just letting it all pile up, and then dealing with it. "That is an attack on my peace of mind," I say, and then I drop it. If it's a legitimate threat, then I take the time to write down a couple of sentences about how I'm going to deal with it. Then I drop it. If the thought comes again, I look at the paper. "I already dealt with this as much as I can for now. Drop it."

I assume that everyone deals with some form of depression, so I don't claim special status there. What I know is that it's bad enough for me that I have to recognize it, and deal with it everyday. I do not feel ashamed of the seemingly silly things that have the potential to take me into deep depression. I just know I have to keep recognizing them, and not letting them take me wherever they want to go.

I to have thought about sucied espicaly when I was young living with my father. I felt unloved if it was not for my cat (zack) I would have done it or at the very least ran away from home. As I got older I kept thing about it but then I started worring about how much a funnerl would cost the family or the something to that fact. Now and days it is just a passing thought. I had one friend many years ago would commited sucied He shoot himself with a gun. I never really saw the warning signs as we where not close but I sometimes wished that we where closer so that I may stopped him....

Jessie

I know the feeling. I deal with it from time to time. I have planned it with the car a few times. I want it to pay off bills and the like. So it can not be detected making it harder to do. Some nights I lay awake and plan it to the super deal so that no one would know. Even once went in to the plan but stopped. Some times the nightmares from the past could go away but I have not done the full plan as of yet.

Gelinda.

I used to say that suicide was the coward's way out. I honestly believed that anyone who committed suicide simply wasn't strong enough. Then I started thinking about it myself. You just don't know until you're in that place yourself.

This is going to sound totally, greedily mercenary, but I have to say it. One of the thoughts that has kept me from killing myself is this: if I die before my divorce is granted, my ex will still be entitled to everything that I own. I don't own much, but it's enough that I want her to have no part of it. She got more than enough when we separated. I tell everyone that we parted on friendly terms, but that was one bone of contention. My mother's been pushing me to file before our tenth anniversary, so that she'll have no access to my Social Security benefits. Luckily, I've got six months to go.

CJ, I just wanted to say, I read your thread. Suicide is a very sensitive subject and on another forum I have said the wrong thing to some one who was contemlating suicide. So I can't go into to much because I have a fear I would hurt some one.

I do know firsthand, the effects of suicide. While it might be an option for the one commiting suicide. it will be devastating to the loved ones left behind. The hurt can be so bad, that the ones who are hurting, even consider suicide as an option for the pain that was given to them.
Amelie

Elizabeth, This is sad to hear that you were in such pain. It must have been unbearable,I feel so sorry, but also glad that you are doing better.
Like the on-line person said, you must find something to focus on. For you this would be your children, this must be in your mind when feeling down.

I had a best friend who help me greatly when I was down and out. She was very strong, but was also in a lot of pain. She could not cope with living, she commited suicide. This has left me devastated ever since. I think about it constantly, everything I see reminds me of her. I will never be rid of these thoughts.

This is what you must think of, your kids will be in this pain for the rest of their lives, it doesn't go away. Everything will remind them of you. I know you were in a lot of pain, but if you did commit suicide, your kids will be in a lifetime of pain. This is why you must focus on your kids when you are ever feeling down. I know you are doing better now, I just thought this could be something to think about if the feeling returns.
Love Amelie

Suicide is a subject that I now group with so many others. As Jaye said about how she used to think that suicides are cowards and weak, is how most that I know think. Some even believe it is a direct trip to hell.

I truly am sensitive to picking out hurt people, even strangers. Once in the dentist chair this summer, I could see the loss, hurt and pain in the hygenists eyes. I told her of myself always wanting to commit suicide but never following through and how I was getting better through therapy. She opened up to me and told how her step father repeatedly raped her. Her own mother would not and has never acknowledged it. She was outcast by all the family because of all her "lies". She told how she got into another abusive relationship and finally went to a therapist and found why she behaved the way she did. She got rid of the abuser and is raising a daughter and son on her own. She never got child support after he disappeared. It had been 12 years. She said she still thinks of suicide and then of her kids. She said she still suffers almost nightly nightmares. I told her that the EMDR therapy I have been going through has all but stopped my regular nightmares and that she may be helped by that method also. I gave her a clinic card. I don't know if she gave it a try or not.

A man I had worked with for 22 years, commited suicide a few years ago.
He was a loner and had no friends, like me. He was a great guy, but was kind of anti-social like I used to be and was still at that time. One Friday I was passing by his machines and asked how he was doing. He was weird. It was awkward and I left. I said to myself I would stop back later and try to see what was going on. I was concerned. I was busy and never stopped back to try to talk. On Saturday morning he didn't show up and he never called in. He was always super reliable. The first thing I thought was, I hoped he didn't do something stupid. I remembered how he had disturbed me the day before and remembered I never got back to talk to him. Then someone said they just heard on the radio that there had been a suicide. I knew it was him and it was. I used to suffer terrible guilt over this too, that I did nothing when at the time I knew he wasn't himself.

A lot of people that had known him at work talked so bad about him. Everyone had a different reason for running him down after he was dead.
Generally people said he was a coward. After the fact we found out that his wife was screwing everything that could walk. One week after the funeral, a man moved into the house with her and her high school age daughter and son. She married a different man about two months after his suicide. Quite by accident I found both kids ended up in therapy for depression and problems in school. Our examples help or hurt our children. No man is an island. As independent as we think we are we do affect some around us. Both these parents affected these children's ability to grow to have a positive outlook about their futures. It would have been much better if he had divorced and stayed in his children's lives.

The thing is, none of us should judge him or each other. We are all unique. We will never be able to know another person's soul entirely. Judge not that you may be judged. Whether fat, skinny, tall, short, bi, gay, straight, Republican, Democrat, Independent, happy, depressed, black, white, brown, yellow, Hindu, Catholic, Lutheran, Muslim, wife beater, husband beater, sadist, masochist, doctor, attorney, electrician, plumber, janitor, fighter pilot, how can we know enough to judge guilty and condemn? Sometimes judgements must be made, but they should be made through considerable consideration.

Too many are condemned today through automatic responses. It always feels better for a short time when I feel superior to another being. For me I have found that hate has more to do with it than love. I feel much less superior and a lessening need to feel superior, as I work much harder to know more about those around me daily.

Also by knowing all of you, who have helped and supported me through so many troubles, I have learned more about accepting myself and in turn about others in the world.

Thanks to all of you writing in this thread about suicide and personal experiences. It is so important having friends who know and share the feelings I have had when thinking suicide.

Kersten

"The man who, in a fit of melancholy, kills himself today, would have
wished to live had he waited a week." - Voltaire

"We have no more right to consume happiness without producing it than
to consume wealth without producing it." - George Bernard Shaw.

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." - Eleanor
Roosevelt

Suicide is man's way of telling God, you can't fire me, I quit.-Bill Maher

Hi all,

Amélie (or rather, Bill Maher) wrote: Suicide is man's way of telling God, you can't fire me, I quit.

The tragedy is when people quit because there's something they don't understand about their job more than they do over dissatisfaction regarding their working conditions.

Love,
CJ