Crossdressers-Haven.com

An open letter to the forum:

My recent reply to an email on [censorship].

Quote:
There are many subjects that I am very easy going about. [Censorship] frankly is not one of them.

History repeats itself as humans fail to learn what censorship really is. Frankly, there can be no specific word by definition, that can be considered objectionable. For one to [self-pleasure] themselves or to [edited] is one in the same. If this were 1950 and the McCarthy "communists in the government" hearings were taking place, I could understand one's distorted postion on this subject.

How did [edited] become taboo? We speak about this directly on any number of current cable programs that deal with the subject of [sexual intercourse]. I must ask, why the censorship? It is one thing to separate people and put them back into their perspective corners for round 2, but another to apply [censorship].

The WEB is not maintained nor governed by civil servents for just that reason. To prevent [censorship]! To permit the free flow of ideas and their content. To change what another says, by definition, is to [censor] that persons ideas and expression.

If this is to "hide" from a younger generation the purpose of [edited] then we are doing a very bad job. Recently, a survey was completed among 14 year old children that indicates 1 in 4 are having oral sex. It is considered "safe sex" among this age group.

I think we are going down a road of [control] and [censorship] is that road. I ask that this be considered with great concern. I teach part-time at the University level of education and we have been down that road in the past. Freedom of speech and choice of appropriate words including [edited] should not be abridged.

A word, by definition, is a string of characters placed into a specific order, then so recognized by a speech pattern and attached to a definition.

There are [abuse] words such as [edited] meaning to engage in [intercourse] and then there are places like [Intercourse, Pennsylvania]. How can we [censor] such applications?

If you are to monitor and then define the definitions of one's intent, we are going back to NAZI thinking. What is good for der Furer, is good for the people!

Argumentation is a science taught at Universities of Law. It is a required course for all freshman law students. We are not qualified by any stretch of the immagination to start defining what is a valid argument and what is a valid description of that argument.

[Comtrol] is and has always been by definition a problem for some people. Power to the people! Freedom of speech!

Dr. Danielle Marie LaBelle, Ph.D.
University of Central Florida, Southeast
unquote:

Dear Members:

Internaltional law states that the laws that govern the forum on the internet shall be those that spring forth fron the home location of the forum. Not verbatim but close enough. This forum is based in Texas, USA. Our first amendment rights pertain to [freedom of speech]. This does not abridge our choice of words.

With 640,000 words in the Oxford English Dictionary, we should not be required to [replace] words with what some consider suitable replacements. After all, what is suitable for one, may not be for another.

There are words that are currently in use that is employed by one race on another, it is considered hateful and imflamatory. While, the opposing race, will use the same word among their own kind, it's meaning, while negative, is now considered acceptable among those in that community.

We cannot be jousting over [Wordsmith] applications when for the most part I am sure, we have no certified "Wordsmith's" among us. [Censorship], plain and simple has been lowered on this forum. I wil wait to see the outcome of this matter before I decide on my continued support.

[Censorship]. NO! Social referee, yes. We do not want to go down this road friends. It has been well traveled before in history with the thankful demise of those that would control and dominate entire cultures with their morbid, mindless control tools.

No Censorship!

Dr. Danielle Marie LaBelle, Ph.D.
University of Central Florida, Southeast

Well Dr.

If you want a forum without control try CDDF, and there is even some censorship on certain words that the software automatically rejects, on that site. I doubt you will find another forum that does not censor some words. I personally do not have a problem with what they are doing here, and fail to see the reason for your concern.

Love Darlene.

Fine.

Darlene, the first issue is:

01. Whom will be in charge of the appropriate words?

02. What words will be deemed inappropriate?

03. What phrases, and other lexicon will we be controlling.?

04. If the words are in another language other tham English, to whom will we direct our inquiry about such things?

You just gave up your first amendment rights to free speech. The government will now speak for you. Rules have their place. Rules are designed to provide order from chaos. There are even "rules of order" for holding formal meetings. There are informal rules on this forum to show courtesy for an example. One that "belches" after a meal in Japan is showing good form, while in the USA, it is considered in bad form.

We have an internaltional community here Darlene. How does one go about this? As usual, Americans expect everyone else to adopt their philosophy. We have a bigger hammer, so, do what we say or do without.

I would like to think that you can see just how far this can go. Rules of common courtesy, not [censorship]. Frankly, if you do not know the difference, then I am concerned on a general population level. I think we need to hear from others this coming week before taking a position. After all, I am free to move on I suppose. We were also free to let Hitler run all over Europe and Africa as well. If you really do not see my point, I do not think you are wrong. I think that you might be more willing to go along with the status-quo than to rock the boat.


Hugs

Danielle Marie

I am relatively new here, has this been a problem on these forums? I am vehemetly against censorship but I am in favor of decorum.

aeryn

as with many things in our society, the censors do not think (or even realize) they are censoring . . . especially if they think they're doing it in behalf of God -- in that case, they're literally blind, unaware of the chaos they've caused to other humans, now and in the past.

Danielle,

You just gave up your first amendment rights to free speech.

I think not.

Microsoft operating systems and the English language both provide different ways of accomplishing the same task. There are many different ways to say the same thing (to get your meaning across). And that is all that communication is about. Communicating ones thought.

I often look for less offensive ways in which to communicate. I continually go over my posts and look for ways to say what I want to say that will lessen the opportunity for those who are negative to read into it what they will. Thank fully we have a word bank that provides us with a choice of words that can help us get our meaning across.

As for rocking the boat...There is a time to do that in certain situations. I am sure it is easy to see that I don't have a problem doing that (from my past performance here) And that is when I will tend to use words better designed to that.

My freedom of speech which translates into freedom to express my opinions has not been restricted here in the least.

And yes Danielle this post is designed to rock your boat.

Love Darlene.

Darlene wrote:My freedom of speech which translates into freedom to express my opinions has not been restricted here in the least.

     Those members whose views are agreeable to the censors will be the least aware that there is any censorship. But let me point out something. The “Off Topics - Non-CD issues” area of this forum originally was created for discussing “anything else ... your pets, your car, or other things.” At some point, “Land of Mordor” was created, and a moderator routinely moved posts she did not like to “Land of Mordor.” This could be called “editorial judgment” except for the fact that only about 25 of the roughly 900 members have access to that area. Effectively, something that is moved there has been removed from the forum — most people cannot follow it to its new location. And posts that respond directly to another post in another area of the forum often are moved to “Mordor.” Logically, that makes no sense, because someone reading the post in “Mordor” (assuming they have access to it) is unlikely to be able to intuit the context underlying it, so the post is likely to look disjointed or off the wall. Posts by socially conservative writers rarely experience that fate, so those writers can quite honestly say, “My opinions have not been restricted here in the least.”

Dick Cheney would be proud of the way this forum is now set up. This forum is becoming unrepresentive of the real world -- many here go around acting as everything is just fine and dandy while the ugly realities of all things TG/CD are safely "contained" in mordor where most people can't see them. Further, opportunities for discussion to improve our lives go to mordor to die.

Is this forum becoming a safe playpen for CD people who want no part of the gay or political realities that dominate all things TG/CD?

Can you say private club?

Hi all,

I am well aware of the fact that there is censorship here. Posts will get moved to Mordor that are written by those who are not interested in finding better ways of communicating. There is a reason that many of us do not have access to Mordor. It is voluntary admission, and apparently there is not a line up waiting to get in.

There is another kind of censorship being attempted here. An example is that any time someone posts a religious post we have those who rudely jump in with posts that are designed to disrupt, and impede the free exchange of like minded people sharing there thoughts, I personally do not have a problem with that, and have purposely refused to get involved in discussions about the Bible, in spite of attempts by others to draw me into that kind of an exchange. And the reason is that I am able to express all of my views quite adequately without having to go there.

There are those here who are threatened by the opinions others have that don't align with theirs, and would like to control any input contrary to what they believe, with posts (that in the past) have been the reason the thread ends up in Mordor.

This is not a censorship issue as much as it is a control issue. And if Administration does not exercise some of it... others will. And this place will become more like CDDF. If you can not learn how to post your opinions in such a way that it keeps you out of Mordor then that is simply not the responsibility of those who are able to do that.

I think Mordor is great it allows some to stay here who might otherwise have been booted out. And if someone becomes so unhappy with it that they move on then that is the way it should be. I would much rather see it be their choice as opposed to the administrators choice that someone should leave.

Respectfully,
Darlene.

Darlene wrote:I think Mordor is great it allows some to stay here who might otherwise have been booted out.

whats this suppose to mean? you're doing some of us a favor? -- some hate our views but we're allowed to stay in Mordor?

Hi,

This thread has been edited to remove words that are always removed from the forum and other words that are changed to things like, "pleasuring themselves" from another word for this act. I just put the word edited because in the original post it was used to many times and was being used to I guess illustrate some point that's beyond my understanding. I'm a very simple minded person so it doesn't surprise me that it went over my head.

I get accused or told all the time of having my own agenda or whatever, but it's my job to not be loved by everyone. C'est la vie and an official bummer. Still I'll do my job and change, modify or delete posts when I feel it's necessary. I do this if you're the first member or the last.

I had decided to move this to Mordor, but I think it deserves to be seen in Off-Topics as it was posted in originally. The decision for even keeping Mordor alive was one that everyone involved debated. It was minutes away from being deleted once, but it was decided that it would be given one last try.

The reason for Mordor was because question about Off-Topic things went from, "How Many People Ride A Bike?" to topics like you see here in Mordor. We were losing SO members and CD'ing members who didn't like the debate stuff. The people we were losing, in our opinion, were some of the best contributors, moderators, and even our own admins. So instead of losing control we decided to exercise our right to manage the forum the way we wanted to. The perception of us being somewhat cool went to the perception that we are to the right, all in one day it seemed.

We've made a choice, we're sticking to it. Things may change one day, but the things we do now are the way they are going to be. We welcome you to start a better forum, a better place that allows SOs and CDs to interact, a place where adult talk can be not monitored, users are never ever offended, people who are new to CD'ing can go and find out information without thinking people are mean or upset. We'll even advertise it for you with a link in the Links Of Interest section. From my presentation of that idea you can see I don't think it's realistic, but I am being honest when I say I'd love to find such a place.

Anyhoo, yes I did change the M word to "pleasuring yourself" and I'll do it anytime I see it so that we don't get the people whose keyboards are all sticky because that's their idea of sexuality. I do it for the good of the forum and not because I have some problem with power. Power corrupts and I realize this. As the admin of a board it was explained to me by Rikki that even if I don't see it as having power, it's still power. I do my best to be fair, but it doesn't always work out. I do my best to show that I don't think I'm anyone special, but I fail at times. I'm a fallible human, but I do not promote censorship. I do my best to stay consistent with my actions although the person that is affected may take it personally.

I'm sorry if my actions are an offense to anyone. That's the best I can do and I'm sorry my decisions aren't favored. Regardless, I love Danielle, Jamie Ann, Darlene, Alexandra, and the members here the same. You don't have to love me back, just like you don't have to like my decisions. It would be great if we were so like minded this kind of discussion didn't have to happen, but as you can see that's not the case and so a kind of debate ensues.

I so wish I'd read this last night. I'm going to have such a cruddy Monday. As if Mondays weren't bad enough already.
:deep inhale and exhale:
Beauty

Alexandra wrote:

Darlene wrote:I think Mordor is great it allows some to stay here who might otherwise have been booted out.

whats this suppose to mean? you're doing some of us a favor? -- some hate our views but we're allowed to stay in Mordor?

Hi Alexandra,

I don't think that's what she meant, I could be wrong (now that's a funny statement considering this thread). What I think she's saying is some people don't really come here for support anymore they feel they have evolved and a lot of the CD'ing posts are what they've seen over and over, year after year. They come here now for the debates and more engaging discussion. Since the forum is for support, I think she's saying if we removed Mordor people who like to have lively discussions would leave or give themselves the boot. Without a Mordor to move debate topics a member could be booted if the topics that aren't allowed in the general area are posted regardless of us saying these topics are not allowed on this forum. Again booted only because there would be no Mordor and topics of debate would be removed all together.

Sorry Darlene if I misspoke.

Beauty

You did not misspeak Beauty, that about says it clear enough.

Love Darlene.

What triggered the original poster, anyway? Did she leave a post that was deleted or something?

I'm a passionate advocate of freedom of expression, but I don't get my panties in a wad if I drop an F-bomb and some thoughtful editor makes it disappear. If the "editor" were a government employee, I'd likely take greater offense, but another poster mentioned "decorum," and for my money, there's too little of that these days. For sure if I were starting this forum, and it were on my dime, I'd organize it a lot differently, but I'm not and it's not, so if I want to play here, I play by the rules.

In the past, I've visited other sites that became so restrictive that there was no room for any controversy at all. I don't go there any more. I also used to visit some unmoderated Usenet groups, but so often they turned out to be slimy spitoons filled with racists, trolls, and potty-mouthed children that I don't go there any more, either.

So far, the folks who run this place seem to be trying to accommodate visitors with delicate sensibilities, as well as provide at least *some* means for those with passionate opinions on grown-up topics to air them. And that, IMHO, is a good thing. My two centavos.
.......Tamara Segunda

Hi all,

Well said, Tamara. Permit me to throw myself into this fray with a few comments.

First of all, I agree strongly with objections to censorship. It is an anathema to intelligent discourse and destructive to free communication. There is a big however.

Is every change or alteration made to what you say or write censorship? In the present situation, is the change from "----" to "intercourse" censorship? or is it editing? If the sense and purpose of an utterance is removed or changed to something other than what the author intended, then, IMO, it is censorship. But if the meaning is not altered, but the wording is modified to conform to the style of the situation, this is editing, and the author should not take offense.

The style of this forum did not originate solely with the moderators. From what I have been reading here for the past few months, it is a style preferred by a large number of participants. Therefore it is the responsibility of the moderators to see that the style is followed. That means "editing." It is also the responsibility of the moderators to keep the forum within the bounds of its stated purpose. There are enough, possibly even too many, other avenues on the Internet to suit any purpose or any topic.

On the preservation of Mordor, my feelings are mixed. Before it was moved to the underworld, I used to check it out occasionally. For myself, I cannot see the value of, say, a political discussion in a forum on crossdressing. I can go elsewhere for that. Perhaps the move was a Solomonic compromise, but compromises usually wind up not pleasing anybody. Behold the camel ! A horse designed by compromising committee.

This forum has served as a support, assistant, listener, and, indeed, a friend to many of us, including myself. Let's not spoil it through disagreements that are totally beside the point. As I have said elsewhere:"If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Hugs,

Willy