What Is Love?

[CJ]

Hi all,

After having spent the last half-hour catching up on the "boundaries and pants-wearing" thread ( ), I noticed that the word "love" cropped up a few times, either as an absence or as a desideratum. It got me thinking... what do we mean by "love," anyway? What is, to you, the definition of "love"?

Here are two of my favourite "encirclings" of the word "love." They come pretty close to my own way of looking at it.

From the NIV Bible (1 Corinthians 13:4-7):

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

From the song Perhaps Love, by John Denver:

Perhaps love is like a resting place,
A shelter from the storm;
It exists to give you comfort,
It is there to keep you warm.
And, in those times of trouble
When you are most alone,
The memory of love will bring you home

Perhaps love is like a window,
Perhaps an open door;
It invites you to come close,
It wants to show you more.
And, even if you lose yourself
And dont know what to do,
The memory of love will see you through

Oh, love to some is like a cloud,
To some as strong as steel;
For some a way of living,
For some a way to feel;
And some say love is holding on,
And some say letting go,
And some say love is everything,
And some say they don't know.

Perhaps love is like the ocean,
Full of conflict, full of change;
Like a fire when it's cold outside
Or thunder when it rains.
If I should live forever
And all my dreams come true,
My memories of love will be of you

Love,
CJ

[Loretta Ann]

Hi CJ.

Probably the simplest and easiest explaination I have seen is best described in this quote.

At the end of our life, we ought to be able to look back over it
from our deathbed and know somehow the world is a better place
because we lived, we loved, we were other-centered, other-focused.

~Joe Erhmann, Football Coach~

Love Darlene.

[Beauty]

Hi CJ,

Love is like a flower or a bottle of wine or anything that is forever changing. So if I were to give my description of it, it would only be for that moment. The love would still be there but time ages love and so love, for me can only be described in snapshots.

So since love is not definable to me, I can not be put into words. I can say I love you and that word encompasses a lot of feelings, but those feelings are unique to that moment and undefinable to me with words.

Still, I love you!

Beauty

[CJ]

Hi all,

Thanks, Beauty! I love you, too. I love all you folks!

I often think of the people I've met here. What a deliciously oddball bunch we are! And I mean that in a good way! I think of you and I feel like something is glowing inside of me. Beauty's right; it's hard to describe something that so much flows like a river, moment to moment, sometimes churning, sometimes still, but I do believe this glowing feeling is love.

Love,
CJ

[Virginia]

For me, I would say love is when someone you care about "love" comes close to you and you can sense the feeling that they are truly happy to be near you and that the feeling is mutual and sort of encompasses both of you without a word being spoken.
There are other types of love. Love of our fellow human beings, love of our pets, love of things, mountains, trees, ocean, etc.
The love between two people is for me a different feeling and promotes a different response than any other type of love.
I still love you ladies, too,
Virginia

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

You know earlier in my life I was just so certain I knew what love was. Love was a physiological response created by hormones to make sure humans pair bond. These hormones are activated by the pheromones of the opposite sex and accumulate in the bllood stream, so the more time we spend in close proximity to a woman, or in direct contact with a woman, like having sex, speeds up the process.

It was easy to understand because it was all biological. However, it seems that I could not have been farther away from the truth. And while I am no longer so brazen as to think I know what love is, I certainly seem to know it when I feel it.

It turns out that love can strike at great distance, and proximity and that hormones, and pheromones are not needed at all. For me love it's this feeling that "I am sipposed to be with this person" It's more than sexual attraction, it's more than physical attraction. It's "I like making this person happy".

I have found that love is not just a feeling about someone, it's a feeling "with" someone. It is just as much about feeling loved, as it is feeling love for someone.

I guess like everyone else, I can't define love, but I know it when I feel it.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Terri(SO)]

Elizabeth said:
"It's more than sexual attraction, it's more than physical attraction. It's "I like making this person happy".

I have found that love is not just a feeling about someone, it's a feeling "with" someone. It is just as much about feeling loved, as it is feeling love for someone. "

I think that's a very good way to put it!
Of course there are many, many different kinds and levels of love. What I feel for my kids, what I feel for Maria, what I feel for those of you here, etc. I would say that CJ has it almost right too except I would use the ocean to describe it. The tides that eb and flow, the power of the waves crashing, the serenity at sunrise.

[CJ]

Hi all,

Great replies! Thanks. There's much food for thought here (for that matter, there's much food for feeling, too).

Love is a subject that's always been close to my heart (er, pun sort of intented). For me, love is (or can be) just as much a state of being as it is a feeling. I've loved (and lost) before. I've been in love (only once in my life). Fallen in, fallen out, fallen flat on my face. I rarely conflate the words "like" and "love"; I like cheese but I love my parents.

I tend to distinguish between "emotional" love and the rather more unconditional love that is often to be found in the realm of the spirit. The early Christians used to refer to the former as eros and to the latter as agape (pr. ah-gah-PAY). Erotic love doesn't just mean physical love; it means also a highly personal love, a direct link between two souls (think of Cupid's arrow). As such, it's like a fire, a fever, a delirious drunkenness. There's an odd depersonalization, a loss of the sense of self, that happens when you're in love. All your thoughts, your breaths, your every heartbeat even, are, in a way, given over to the one you love. You let go of your self in order to present that self as a gift to the other. In the same way, the one you love becomes something more than "merely" another person. In your eyes, the one you love gains dimensions that are of almost mythic proportions and takes on the allure of the purest, most perfect and flawless creature the world has ever seen. The "circle of depersonalization" is thus complete.

I remember when I first fell in love with Marian, all those years ago. The world was all askew. Everything stood out in sharp relief; every sound a wind chime, every passing whiff the scent of a rose, every sight a starry sky. I was lost, wandering like a beggar in my own skull, touching everything, everyone, just to make sure I was still the owner of my own skin. Marian, although flattered, was a little non-plussed. One night, she told me: "It's not me you love but the 'perfect' image of me you have in your own mind." She had a point. But I didn't care. I told her that I accepted and wanted everything about her, even the dark sides I hadn't yet discovered. It didn't wash, though. She thought I was infatuated with her and in a way I was. But I was also head over heels in love.

In a relationship, this kind of "fever" usually transmutes into something else after a couple of years, something less "hallucinatory," more stable and grounded in reality ("reality"... what a concept!). The fire becomes a slow-burning, long-lasting circle of embers--the "glow" I mentioned in my post above. We can talk of "hunks o' burnin' love" all we want, but it's the slow glow--pulsating and warm--that lies at the heart of the deepest friendships that lasts. Unfortunately, in this instant-gratification-obssessed culture, we're thrill-seekers in search of validation. We have trouble loving if that love isn't requited. Yet, for me, it makes little sense to love someone only (or even mostly) because of what that person gives me in return. This sounds more to me like a contract than it does like love. To love someone just for the sake of who they are gives that person wings. And that is gift enough for that person... and gift enough for me. I find it so strange sometimes that even those who profess to love nature for its own sake cannot see just how much a part of nature human beings are, as well. Love is letting grow. Letting live. Letting go. This includes people.

Here, we're heading into the territory of agape, the slightly more spiritual "brotherly" kind of love (and how I wish that we had a word to describe it, other than "brotherly" or "sisterly"!). Here, love moves on its own and doesn't stand around waiting for a return. The getting is in the giving. Often, we have trouble pinpointing what, exactly, the object of our love is. The human spirit? God? The universe? Or maybe, like the Hindus, we love God and/or the universe as they manifest themselves, not only in the human spirit but in all living things. This kind of love is unbreakable and unshakeable. If need be, it can move mountains. Often, though, there is no need to move mountains; this love is a love of what is, not just a love of what should be; a thankful love, not a petitionary love.

In my calmer moments, I realize this is the kind of love I have for the many people I've met here. I'm deeply grateful for your presence in my life, virtual though it may be.

Love,
CJ

[Loretta Ann]

Love is letting grow. Letting live. Letting go. This includes people.

I agree with that statement CJ. And if that is true then love is an action as opposed to a feeling. The feeling may or may not be a symptom (or by product) of love.

I have heard it said that it is important who you love. Indeed there are those in life who one simply needs to let go on their merry way. Letting them face the consequences. There are times when one needs to be left to dig their own way out the mess they created. Re letting them grow. There are also times when it is wise to provide a bandage, which will allow them to do just that.

I have been guilty at times of intentionally doing something to speed that process up. Especially if one makes it apparent that they are headed that way anyway. By not listening to advice from others who are equipped to give it.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that there are people who we need to care enough about not to give in to their picture of what love is to them. Although letting go certainly has other applications in a healthy relationship. This includes; but is not exclusive to boundaries.

Love Darlene.

[Jaye]

I always liked Howard Jones' definition. I discovered this song in remixed form around 1984, and it's stuck with me all this time. The beginning isn't so important, nor the choruses. It's the second and third verses that make my point.

What is Love

I love you whether or not you love me
I love you even if you think that I don't
Sometimes I find you doubt my love for you, but I don't mind
Why should I mind, Why should I mind

Chorus
What is Love anyway, does anybody love anybody anyway
What is Love anyway, does anybody love anybody anyway

Can anybody love anyone so much that they will never fear?
Never worry never be sad
The answer is they cannot love this much nobody can
This is why I don't mind you doubting

And maybe love is letting people be just what they want to be
The door always must be left unlocked
To love when circumstance may lead someone away from you
And not to spend the time just doubting

[Carolynn]

Hi all. Just had time to read this thread, and it happened to be after running across the following: (From Encarta)

The Trouble With Love (Stories)
by Martha Brockenbrough
If one true thing can be said about love stories, it's that we love them.

We eat them up, whether they're truly awful (like those romance novels with Fabio on the cover) or awe-inspiring (for me, that would be ).

I did a search and found that Barnes & Noble is selling more than 20,000 books with the word love in the title. And even though some of these have nothing to do with romantic love, we're still dealing with a lot of books.

Keep Learning
Find online classes and degree programs.Love stories make up some of our oldest literature and mythology. Take the Egyptian goddess Isis, for example.

Worshiped throughout Egypt as long ago as 1500 BC, Isis was the goddess of motherhood and marital devotion, among other things. One of her most notable achievements was bringing her husband Osiris back to life after he was brutally murdered by his brother.

As old as this story is, I've always found it really touching. If you had the power, wouldn't you resurrect your murdered spouse?

Another ancient tale is the Odyssey, the story of Greek hero Odysseus's ten-year journey home from the Trojan War. Packed with adventure, this 2,800-year-old story has at its heart the importance of home and family, and how these forces are enough to help a man cross oceans and slay monsters.

Want to Learn More?
Read about Homer, who is credited for the epic poem the . You can also read the full text of this ancient masterpiece online.
The people who really perfected the telling of love stories were the troubadours, lyric poets, and poet-musicians who flourished in 12th-century France and sang tales that have been borrowed by writers many times since.

But what's striking about love stories is that when you really think about it, there aren't all that many love story plots. The same ones seem to be recycled again and again, in everything from coffee commercials to cartoons. And the vast majority of them--in my humble opinion--have a major flaw, which I will talk about later.

For now, though, let's take a walk through the love story hall of fame.

Forbidden love (and doomed love)
This is a classic love story formula. Probably the most famous example was written about 400 years ago: Shakespeare's . These "star-cross'd lovers" were forbidden to love one another because of the ongoing feud between their wealthy parents.

As famous as Shakespeare's version of the story is, though, he wasn't the first to tell it. He based the play on a 16th-century English poem by Arthur Brooke called The Tragicall Historye of Romeus and Juliet. And this poem was based on an old Italian story. So clearly the idea had been around.

The love triangle
Forbidden in a different sense is the love triangle. My favorite version is the tale of King Arthur. One of the most famous leaders of all time, Arthur was the commoner who pulled the sword from the stone (or in some versions of the story, from an anvil) and became the ruler of Britain. With a grip like that, you'd think he'd be able to hold onto his marriage. But no. Arthur's wife, Guinevere, fell in love with his most powerful knight, Lancelot, and their affair split Camelot apart.

Love from afar (also love at first sight)
You know how this one goes. Their eyes meet across a crowded room and--shazam! It's love. This is the Cinderella story, or if you don't have any patience for people who accessorize with glass, it's the tale of Pepe LePew, the French skunk of Warner Brothers cartoon fame. Pepe repeatedly falls in love with a beautiful black cat who--thanks to cartoon magic--gets a white stripe painted down her back in every episode.

On the Web
Washington State University offers a guide to Romeo and Juliet. Want more forbidden love? Read the sad and gruesome story of Heloise and Abelard.
What I love about Pepe LePew is that he points out how silly love at first sight really is. He keeps falling in love with a cat, not a skunk--a great commentary on how our eyes can make us want what is utterly unsuitable.

Transforming love
A great love story plot is the one where the power of love makes one or both partners better people. You'll find this in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice, where both Elizabeth and Mr. Darcy make mistakes that nearly cost them their love but eventually are humbled and reunited to live happily ever after.

It's not just the old writers, though, who like the idea of love transforming. If you saw , you will remember hearing Melvin Udall (Jack Nicholson) growl, "She makes me want to be a better person," as he falls in love with Carol Connelly (Helen Hunt).

Triumphant love
The Odyssey, of course, is a great example of how love triumphs over all--from angry gods to one-eyed monsters to greedy suitors. Just about every love story with a happy ending is partly about triumphant love.

There's a variation on this, too: the version where two people overcome obstacles together, then fall in love as a result of their journey. This happened on the big screen in the movie , where Keanu Reeves the cop falls for Sandra Bullock's accidental bus driver.

Where love stories break down
This speedy kind of love gets right at the problem with all these romance paradigms: They tend to end right at the point where either love is consummated or the lovers die. And that's not how it works in real life. Even in Speed, the characters acknowledge the folly of their budding relationship, but they go ahead and kiss anyway.

Real-life love, the kind that leads to 50-year marriages, has different challenges and requirements. It may start with the kind of love you read in books and see in movies. But to find out how the rest of the story is supposed to go, we're pretty much on our own.

On the Web
Looking for some more realistic love stories? Try or by 12th-century French poet Chrétien de Troyes.
Or so I thought, until I talked with Raymond Cormier, a visiting professor at Longwood College in Virginia. Cormier helped me come up with the love story paradigms I mention above and is an expert in love. Not only has he studied courtly love for decades, he's also been married for 40 years. And he has three tips for how "happily ever after" actually works:

Find a friend, someone you can live with. After 40 years, romance becomes less of a priority.
Give your partner space to develop as a human being.
Respect each other.
Mutual respect doesn't look all that exciting on the big screen, but Cormier points out that there are some great old stories illustrating this kind of love.

There's Chrétien de Troyes' Ywain: the Knight of the Lion, a 12th-century romance about a knight who leaves his wife and fails to return by his deadline. So she kicks him out, and he must redeem himself through suffering before their love can burn again.

And then there's Chrétien's tale of Erec and Enide, who find their love falling flat after an exciting courtship. So they go on some adventures together, and their love is reborn.

These stories might not be in the love hall of fame, but wouldn't you like your own love story to turn out as well?

Some of these descriptions sound familiar CJ?

[Carolynn]

CJ wrote:

"Erotic love doesn't just mean physical love; it means also a highly personal love, a direct link between two souls (think of Cupid's arrow). As such, it's like a fire, a fever, a delirious drunkenness. There's an odd depersonalization, a loss of the sense of self, that happens when you're in love. All your thoughts, your breaths, your every heartbeat even, are, in a way, given over to the one you love. You let go of your self in order to present that self as a gift to the other. In the same way, the one you love becomes something more than "merely" another person. In your eyes, the one you love gains dimensions that are of almost mythic proportions and takes on the allure of the purest, most perfect and flawless creature the world has ever seen. The "circle of depersonalization" is thus complete.

I remember when I first fell in love with Marian, all those years ago. The world was all askew. Everything stood out in sharp relief; every sound a wind chime, every passing whiff the scent of a rose, every sight a starry sky. I was lost, wandering like a beggar in my own skull, touching everything, everyone, just to make sure I was still the owner of my own skin."

The most wonderful thing in life is to be delirious and the most wonderful kind of delirium is being in love.
--Yevgeny Zamyatin (1884 - 1937), Russian writer. From "The Fisher of Men." (see Soviet Literature)

Love is like quicksilver in the hand. Leave the fingers open and it stays. Clutch it, and it darts away.
--Attributed to Dorothy Parker (1893 - 1967), U.S. writer and wit.

What love is, if thou wouldst be taught,
Thy heart must teach
alone--
Two souls with but a single thought,
Two hearts that beat as one.
--Friedrich Halm (1806 - 1871), German playwright and poet. From Ingomar the Barbarian (Maria Lovell, tr.).

Interesting. Loss of self in another, something I have not experienced, nor likely could under the circumstances. It would be interesting. Close comforting friendship yes, and that desired. But for reasons that seemed more right and just, I have lived with my mind but caged my heart.

OK, so enough. Wish I had caught the thread earlier.

Love, Carolynn

[Virginia]

Carolyn,
No offense intended, and I have read and reread your part of this thread, but I keep coming up with the same question - Why do you know all this?
I am more than impressed with what you have written. You, of course do not have to respond and a I am not being obtuse, I am just curious.
All you ladies never cease to amaze me with your abilties to express yourselves and usually bring tears to this girls eyes.
Love,
Virginia

[Oregon (SO)]

i am glad this thread is revived.

Love is this wonderful mixture of jumping off a cliff and hoping you will be caught.

I wrote that in my journal when I was not even out of my teens.

For me love is now not so much jumping off a cliff but more like a recipe
1/4 contentment
1/4 lust
1/4 security
1/4 passion

kathy in canada

[Carolynn]

Hi Virginia. Certainly no offense taken, and none offered either. I am just not real sure of your rather open ended question. Are you referring to the quotes? If so, then I have always read a lot, and am lucky enough to retain a lot of what I read, and when I don't recall it exactly, usually remember where it came from so I can find it again. And when somebody strikes a chord in me, like the almost lyrical words CJ wrote, the rest is easy. I am an incurable romantic at heart, which I kept hidden from all for decades. But I don't have to do that anymore.

Actually, the things CJ and Beauty and others have written in these threads often have me in tears of sympathy, joy and feelings of companionship, so I understand what you are saying. And KathySO in the Changes thread made me so happy to know her, if only via computer. She's been through her fire and doubts, and survived to thrive, and is a bonafide champ. And you lady, are an open accepting person youself, open to risk and challenge and not afraid of friendship with people who are different. I have really enjoyed your descriptions of your weekends out, and somewhat envied you the joy of your times exploring the world with Brandi. Keep it up!!!

Love, Carolynn