[note: I'm putting this thread here because I want everybody to be able to respond.]
I realize that many of you are members of Tri-Ess and others have mentioned that Tri-Ess made all the difference in the world for you when it came to dealing with CD issues. Likewise, full credit should be given to Tri-Ess for trying to help CDs in the days before resources were common place.
Now, unfortunately, we have to ask if Tri-Ess as it exists today is helping or hurting the CD cause . . .
In Helen Boyd's book "My Husband Betty" notes that the CD community today is missing out on finding ways to accept and liberate itself because of its own history -- the one created by Tri-Ess.
The foundation ideas of Tri-Ess were based on the personal opinions of the founder -- among many were her opposition to gay crossdressers, sexual reassignment surgery-pre/post op transgendered indivudals, reference to sex, involvement of SOs (intitally) and so on.
As a result of Tri-Ess's initial impact, they have shaped and defined the average CDer today who now find themselves estranged from three more communites (gay/lesbian, transgenderd and alternative sex communites) -- whose imput and experience could have helped the CDer accept himself for who he is and fight for his right to be himself in his community. (pg222)
Helen Boyd says even today, gay crossdressers and transsexuals are "encouraged" to go elsewhere and not be part of TriEss.
Ironically, the gay and lesbian community will fight for the CDer when his civil right is violated -- for instance, the case of a grocer who was fired for CDing off site, it was mostly the transgendered community who protested, nary a CD'r in sight. But when the tide is changed, one won't find a CDr fighting for gay or TG discrimination, and barely will they even fight for another CD.
A closer look at Tri-Ess
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Alexandra
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A closer look at Tri-Ess
Last edited by Alexandra on Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alexandra
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Alexandra
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IMO, this is obviously a MAJOR flaw in the Tri-Ess way of thinking. Clinging to the "we're NOT gay, we're straight" Tri-Ess ideology has alienated CDrs from the only groups that will fight for their right to CD.
I know I don't plan to live a life in a closet and I don't believe we should be supporting an organization that quietly insists we do the same. I know I've NEVER been afraid to speak out for gay rights (even though I'm married and not gay) because I know I owe them a heck of a lot for my rights to be transgendered today!
</rant>
What say you all?
I know I don't plan to live a life in a closet and I don't believe we should be supporting an organization that quietly insists we do the same. I know I've NEVER been afraid to speak out for gay rights (even though I'm married and not gay) because I know I owe them a heck of a lot for my rights to be transgendered today!
</rant>
What say you all?
Alexandra
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RikkiOfLA
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A very interesting topic!
I think we all owe an important debt to Tri-Ess. When we were in the closet, or in ignorance and denial, (or perhaps for some of us, not yet a gleam in our father's eye) they were out there in public places, getting arrested merely for dressing en femme.
There's an inherent limitation to the support group format. By consistently having speakers of interest primarily to the closeted newbie (wig dealers, makeup consultants, and so on) they offer little to anyone concerned with anything deeper than coming out, looking our best, etc.
There are deeper issues to be addressed, and deeper solutions to be found, with broader implications. To find them, though, requires exploring more controversial areas like politics, spirituality, and psychology. There's a definite risk when you discuss such things--people are not going to agree on the solutions, and arguments will ensue.
For quite a few years, the strongest Tri-Ess chapters have been in areas (such as the deep South) where discrimination against crossdressers is strongest. I think in such areas, Tri-Ess still serves an important purpose, in simply providing a place where heterosexual crossdressers can meet.
But more and more crossdressers today are discovering they can go dressed virtually anywhere they want--out to dinner at straight restaurants, shopping, running errands, travelling, etc. Support groups in overpriced banquet rooms become increasingly unnecessary.
The straight community's equivalent to organized support groups--lodges such as the Masons, Elks, etc. aren't faring well either.
The real purpose of support groups isn't providing a safe place--it's the people. Support groups are a chance to talk with people who live with the same issues.
There is gradually evolving a grass-roots network of informal support groups, functioning without organization or expenses or membership rules. People simply get together and talk at a prearranged place and time. New people are usually welcome.
There are also more and more groups with explicit purposes--political, spiritual, or psychological (and here I'm talking mostly about 12-step groups, though groups with other types of foundations exist too), where crossdressers are increasingly welcome, along with gays, transsexuals, and other people.
I think we all owe an important debt to Tri-Ess. When we were in the closet, or in ignorance and denial, (or perhaps for some of us, not yet a gleam in our father's eye) they were out there in public places, getting arrested merely for dressing en femme.
There's an inherent limitation to the support group format. By consistently having speakers of interest primarily to the closeted newbie (wig dealers, makeup consultants, and so on) they offer little to anyone concerned with anything deeper than coming out, looking our best, etc.
There are deeper issues to be addressed, and deeper solutions to be found, with broader implications. To find them, though, requires exploring more controversial areas like politics, spirituality, and psychology. There's a definite risk when you discuss such things--people are not going to agree on the solutions, and arguments will ensue.
For quite a few years, the strongest Tri-Ess chapters have been in areas (such as the deep South) where discrimination against crossdressers is strongest. I think in such areas, Tri-Ess still serves an important purpose, in simply providing a place where heterosexual crossdressers can meet.
But more and more crossdressers today are discovering they can go dressed virtually anywhere they want--out to dinner at straight restaurants, shopping, running errands, travelling, etc. Support groups in overpriced banquet rooms become increasingly unnecessary.
The straight community's equivalent to organized support groups--lodges such as the Masons, Elks, etc. aren't faring well either.
The real purpose of support groups isn't providing a safe place--it's the people. Support groups are a chance to talk with people who live with the same issues.
There is gradually evolving a grass-roots network of informal support groups, functioning without organization or expenses or membership rules. People simply get together and talk at a prearranged place and time. New people are usually welcome.
There are also more and more groups with explicit purposes--political, spiritual, or psychological (and here I'm talking mostly about 12-step groups, though groups with other types of foundations exist too), where crossdressers are increasingly welcome, along with gays, transsexuals, and other people.
Love and respect,
Rikki
Rikki
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Kyra
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Hey Y'all,
I went seeking a Tri-Ess chapter in the local area (N'awlins, Baby
) And to my dismay, found none. What I did find was the GGA (Gulf Gender Alliance) I interviewed with the President of the GGA and found this out for myself. Now, while I am a hetero cross-dresser and do not wish to have surgery or anything like that, I have to be open minded and respectful of my sisters who do. I was a little disappointed when I found that Tri-Ess "frowned" upon those who were Gay/Lesbian. Tri-Ess is doing wonderful things for CD's, but in my opinion, this is just a TAD BIT close-minded! 
I hope that they are seeing the error of their ways. In the future, I hope they will change this rule (understood or written) to be more open and accepting. This doesn't impact me directly, but as it has been said: The Gay/Lesbian community do seem to be the front runners for their and OUR cause!
I will be the first to say that I'm embarrassed or scared or whatever, and am not willing to stand up for my rights as a CD. They (G/L/B/T) have the guts to do what I can't. For that, I applaud and praise them.
BTW-the GGA accepts all people
Love to all,
Kyra
I went seeking a Tri-Ess chapter in the local area (N'awlins, Baby
) And to my dismay, found none. What I did find was the GGA (Gulf Gender Alliance) I interviewed with the President of the GGA and found this out for myself. Now, while I am a hetero cross-dresser and do not wish to have surgery or anything like that, I have to be open minded and respectful of my sisters who do. I was a little disappointed when I found that Tri-Ess "frowned" upon those who were Gay/Lesbian. Tri-Ess is doing wonderful things for CD's, but in my opinion, this is just a TAD BIT close-minded! I hope that they are seeing the error of their ways. In the future, I hope they will change this rule (understood or written) to be more open and accepting. This doesn't impact me directly, but as it has been said: The Gay/Lesbian community do seem to be the front runners for their and OUR cause! I will be the first to say that I'm embarrassed or scared or whatever, and am not willing to stand up for my rights as a CD. They (G/L/B/T) have the guts to do what I can't. For that, I applaud and praise them.
BTW-the GGA accepts all people
Love to all,
Kyra
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return. - Leonardo DaVinci
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LeftyRainbow(SO)
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IMO I still think that it is VERY important to wifes/SO's initially that they realize this has to do with gender issues and not sexual orientation.
I am no exception. If you take away the threat of a spouse identifying themselves as gay or transexual CDing may be a little bit easier to swallow.
Tri-ess may be a conservative orginization but no one has to join it if they do not want to.
I think it's great if more liberal orginazations pop up but I still hold strong that Tri-ess and organizations like it exist as an option for the more conservative CD's and couples.
Tri-ess may have initially been for just the CD but it has progressed to include the SO/wife as a part of each chapter.
Each has their own concerns that need to be addressed and of course as a couple working to make peace and understanding at home.
Respectfully,
Lefty
I am no exception. If you take away the threat of a spouse identifying themselves as gay or transexual CDing may be a little bit easier to swallow.
Tri-ess may be a conservative orginization but no one has to join it if they do not want to.
I think it's great if more liberal orginazations pop up but I still hold strong that Tri-ess and organizations like it exist as an option for the more conservative CD's and couples.
Tri-ess may have initially been for just the CD but it has progressed to include the SO/wife as a part of each chapter.
Each has their own concerns that need to be addressed and of course as a couple working to make peace and understanding at home.
Respectfully,
Lefty
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Cindy Michelle
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I think it's great if more liberal orginazations pop up but I still hold strong that Tri-ess and organizations like it exist as an option for the more conservative CD's and couples.
Tri-ess may have initially been for just the CD but it has progressed to include the SO/wife
Thanks Lefty, I agree completely. Tri-ess was imensely helpful to my wife when I came out to her. They may be exclusionary, but they are helpful to CD's and their SO's and nothing they do prevents anyone else from starting another organization with a broader membership. I've read 'Betty' and concur with some of her suggestions and disagree with some.
Criticism is easy. If such critism causes improvement, then great! But if it only helps to lessen the image and impact of an organization that supports us, then it is counterproductive to us. As far as I know, although not perfect, they are the best we have on the national scale. Let's support them as best we can.
Isn't it interesting that we on this forum want to limit the types that post here, to exclude comments that we think are inappropriate. However, some think it is okay to tell another group that they should expand their membership?
Cindy
Tri-ess may have initially been for just the CD but it has progressed to include the SO/wife
Thanks Lefty, I agree completely. Tri-ess was imensely helpful to my wife when I came out to her. They may be exclusionary, but they are helpful to CD's and their SO's and nothing they do prevents anyone else from starting another organization with a broader membership. I've read 'Betty' and concur with some of her suggestions and disagree with some.
Criticism is easy. If such critism causes improvement, then great! But if it only helps to lessen the image and impact of an organization that supports us, then it is counterproductive to us. As far as I know, although not perfect, they are the best we have on the national scale. Let's support them as best we can.
Isn't it interesting that we on this forum want to limit the types that post here, to exclude comments that we think are inappropriate. However, some think it is okay to tell another group that they should expand their membership?
Cindy
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LeftyRainbow(SO)
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Marilyn
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When I first came looking for resources/support for my crossdressing, I obviously came across Tri-Ess rather quickly. However, for many of the same reasons, I have never looked into joining.
While I may not be as vocal as I could be, in my support of G/L/TG issues, I do support their individual rights and take a personal issue with any person, or organization, that would exclude any person based on an issue such as sexual orientation. This is my primary issue with many of the religous organizations, today. (But that's a whole 'nother topic. )
Hugs.
While I may not be as vocal as I could be, in my support of G/L/TG issues, I do support their individual rights and take a personal issue with any person, or organization, that would exclude any person based on an issue such as sexual orientation. This is my primary issue with many of the religous organizations, today. (But that's a whole 'nother topic.
)Hugs.
Reality is only a dream that has been brought to life by your belief that it could happen
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Alexandra
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Hi, nothing personal here, so please don't take any! 
Someone said: "Criticism is easy. If such critism causes improvement, then great! But if it only helps to lessen the image and impact of an organization that supports us, then it is counterproductive to us.
Actually, I can't agree with that at all -- its SO WRONG on a number of levels . . . for one thing, who decides what we can criticize?? You? Them? Me? We either have an open society or we don't.
Two, criticism of any TG/CD organization SHOULD come from within so that we can scrunitize ourselves, besides, if we don't, for sure those on the "outside" will and it won't be too hard for causal observers to spot contradicitons.
Three, if any TG/CD organization has any value at all, it will survive criticism.
someone said: "As far as I know, although not perfect, they are the best we have on the national scale."
I can't agree with that either. One can easily argue that GenderPAC or NTAC does more for CDs on a national level.
In fact, the book's author Helen Boyd suggest that CDs join these organizations. She also suggests writing and contacting legislators and educating them of the needs of CD (as a means of picking up slack where Tri-Ess has dropped the ball).
Someone said: "Criticism is easy. If such critism causes improvement, then great! But if it only helps to lessen the image and impact of an organization that supports us, then it is counterproductive to us.
Actually, I can't agree with that at all -- its SO WRONG on a number of levels . . . for one thing, who decides what we can criticize?? You? Them? Me? We either have an open society or we don't.
Two, criticism of any TG/CD organization SHOULD come from within so that we can scrunitize ourselves, besides, if we don't, for sure those on the "outside" will and it won't be too hard for causal observers to spot contradicitons.
Three, if any TG/CD organization has any value at all, it will survive criticism.
someone said: "As far as I know, although not perfect, they are the best we have on the national scale."
I can't agree with that either. One can easily argue that GenderPAC or NTAC does more for CDs on a national level.
In fact, the book's author Helen Boyd suggest that CDs join these organizations. She also suggests writing and contacting legislators and educating them of the needs of CD (as a means of picking up slack where Tri-Ess has dropped the ball).
Last edited by Alexandra on Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Alexandra
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Alexandra
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RikkiOfLA
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Julie writes about her wanting to join Tri-Ess as a bearded crossdresser...
Actually, Julie, I had a very similar experience with them a long time ago. When I was first coming out as a crossdresser, I had a beard too. I spoke with Virginia Prince, the founder of Tri-Ess, about the possibility of coming to a meeting of the local chapter. She told me that as a bearded crossdresser, I would not allowed to come to meetings. She said they "can't just allow any freaks" to come to meetings.I know that my experience may be very rare and may not represent Tri-Ess as a whole, but my answer to "What should Tri-Ess do now?" is to stop being so hurtful and so nasty. And the nastiness did come from the national headquarters.
Love and respect,
Rikki
Rikki
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Shannon
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Sorry to get this topic --- off topic ---- but I saw this comment by Cindy and just had to try again to clarify something...Cindy Michelle wrote:Isn't it interesting that we on this forum want to limit the types that post here, to exclude comments that we think are inappropriate. However, some think it is okay to tell another group that they should expand their membership?
Cindy
I personally DON'T want any limitations on the topics discusssed here.... I just want everybody to discuss things in polite and respectful manners. To be honest I would like to see more "thought provocing" topics (like this one) get going.... I am into fun stuff and chit chat, but I think strong and maybe uncomfortable topics are important to...
Like I have said several times (publically and privately) the comments and topics made by our member Ridge have been most welcome (in my mind) I just have a problem with how he chooses to phrase things.....
So please to all, feel free to talk about whatever is important to you that you feel will be benefical to this forum and it's members...
Thank you,
Shannon
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Shannon
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Now, back on topic....
As you may know I have made some comments here about Tri-Ess and my personal experiences with it.... For the most part I think Tri-Ess is a VERY important organization to the CD community...
But for me it really doesn't fit my needs.... I too received the "beard" comments.... but for me they were rather nicely phrased and given up front....
I have never been to a Tri-Ess function so I really don't know what support and help they provide at them.... But to be honest I still think Tri-Ess is a little too limited in their SO involvement... To me it seems like SO and limited in their input....
In closing I think very highly of Tri-Ess, they are a great organization.... now there are things I would like to see changed about it, but that is true for all things, this forum included, my dogs, the color of my car, everything can use change....
As you may know I have made some comments here about Tri-Ess and my personal experiences with it.... For the most part I think Tri-Ess is a VERY important organization to the CD community...
But for me it really doesn't fit my needs.... I too received the "beard" comments.... but for me they were rather nicely phrased and given up front....
I have never been to a Tri-Ess function so I really don't know what support and help they provide at them.... But to be honest I still think Tri-Ess is a little too limited in their SO involvement... To me it seems like SO and limited in their input....
In closing I think very highly of Tri-Ess, they are a great organization.... now there are things I would like to see changed about it, but that is true for all things, this forum included, my dogs, the color of my car, everything can use change....
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CJ
- Miss Diamond Goddess
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Hi all,
Shannon,
I'm curious; what would you like to see changed about Tri-Ess? I'll confess, here, and admit to having no experience whatsoever with any kind of TG/CD support group. But I'm curious nonetheless about the Society for the Second Self, if only for the fact that it is so visible and well-known.
I tend to regard support groups as I do therapists (a type of creature with which I also have no experience); if it doesn't feel comfortable to you, if it doesn't "click," seek support (and therapy) elsewhere. I realize this is a very "individualizing" view of the role of support groups and doesn't take into account their possibly beneficial impact on a broader political scene. Still, I think an organization can only be as open and tolerant (and politically and thrapeutically effective) as is the vision and the views of its founding and participating members, whether these are explicitely stated or merely implied in their charter or mandate.
I'll refrain from criticizing Tri-Ess (or any other such group), having no direct experience with the organization. I will say this, though: inclusion and wider inclusiveness is a strategy that would better serve the health and longevity of such organizations than exclusion (especially exclusion on what are, essentially, technical issues--such as facial hair, for example). Tri-Ess shoots itself in the foot by refusing support to crossdressers with beards or mustaches. Unless, of course, their mandate is to provide support and advocacy exclusively for passable or, at the very least, "non-freakish" CDs (I cringe to think this might be the case).
So, this is the question I would ask: Given its stated charter, does the organization fulfill its mandate? Our criticism should be levelled, not at its charter, but rather at its competency in following that charter. If Tri-Ess is more or less politically impotent, well, then there are other groups out there whose mission it is to pressure political leaders for change. Tri-Ess probably shouldn't be dissed for whatever lacks it has in this regard.
Alexandra mentioned this (and I heartily agree), the fact is we have more power as individuals than we generally suppose. Inform yourselves, understand the issues and the stakes involved, and then write to your elected officials, whether local or state/provincial or national. You may hear only your own voice, but they hear a chorus (okay, the singing's a little off-key sometimes, but still!). All our voices matter. Talk. Sing. Be.
Peace,
CJ
Shannon,
I'm curious; what would you like to see changed about Tri-Ess? I'll confess, here, and admit to having no experience whatsoever with any kind of TG/CD support group. But I'm curious nonetheless about the Society for the Second Self, if only for the fact that it is so visible and well-known.
I tend to regard support groups as I do therapists (a type of creature with which I also have no experience); if it doesn't feel comfortable to you, if it doesn't "click," seek support (and therapy) elsewhere. I realize this is a very "individualizing" view of the role of support groups and doesn't take into account their possibly beneficial impact on a broader political scene. Still, I think an organization can only be as open and tolerant (and politically and thrapeutically effective) as is the vision and the views of its founding and participating members, whether these are explicitely stated or merely implied in their charter or mandate.
I'll refrain from criticizing Tri-Ess (or any other such group), having no direct experience with the organization. I will say this, though: inclusion and wider inclusiveness is a strategy that would better serve the health and longevity of such organizations than exclusion (especially exclusion on what are, essentially, technical issues--such as facial hair, for example). Tri-Ess shoots itself in the foot by refusing support to crossdressers with beards or mustaches. Unless, of course, their mandate is to provide support and advocacy exclusively for passable or, at the very least, "non-freakish" CDs (I cringe to think this might be the case).
So, this is the question I would ask: Given its stated charter, does the organization fulfill its mandate? Our criticism should be levelled, not at its charter, but rather at its competency in following that charter. If Tri-Ess is more or less politically impotent, well, then there are other groups out there whose mission it is to pressure political leaders for change. Tri-Ess probably shouldn't be dissed for whatever lacks it has in this regard.
Alexandra mentioned this (and I heartily agree), the fact is we have more power as individuals than we generally suppose. Inform yourselves, understand the issues and the stakes involved, and then write to your elected officials, whether local or state/provincial or national. You may hear only your own voice, but they hear a chorus (okay, the singing's a little off-key sometimes, but still!). All our voices matter. Talk. Sing. Be.
Peace,
CJ
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Beauty
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Hi,
Well I thought this topic was going to get hot, but it seems I was very wrong.
I feel I've evolved and so I no longer depend on Tri-Ess. However, I am forever grateful to the org as a whole for helping me. I discovered Tri-Ess when I was 19 and it helped me accept that I could be a man who liked women, but could still wore female clothing.
It was only as I grew more that I learned of others who CD'd and weren't heterosexual.
Tri-Ess isn't against CD'rs who aren't heterosexual. I just thought they didn't allow non-heterosexual men to join. I don't think they'd protest those who aren't heterosexual. One of the unique things about Tri-Ess years ago, was that it had a place for women. They were truly the leader with this and I feel they have a great deal to do with why women these days can accept the idea more readily.
The facial hair stuff... well, that's another story. I think it was silly someone did that. Especially since they were nasty to you. I wish you would report that person to the head office. I think that person would have, at a minimum, been reprimanded.
Ok, there's my 2 cents.
Beauty
Well I thought this topic was going to get hot, but it seems I was very wrong.
I feel I've evolved and so I no longer depend on Tri-Ess. However, I am forever grateful to the org as a whole for helping me. I discovered Tri-Ess when I was 19 and it helped me accept that I could be a man who liked women, but could still wore female clothing.
It was only as I grew more that I learned of others who CD'd and weren't heterosexual.
Tri-Ess isn't against CD'rs who aren't heterosexual. I just thought they didn't allow non-heterosexual men to join. I don't think they'd protest those who aren't heterosexual. One of the unique things about Tri-Ess years ago, was that it had a place for women. They were truly the leader with this and I feel they have a great deal to do with why women these days can accept the idea more readily.
The facial hair stuff... well, that's another story.
I think it was silly someone did that. Especially since they were nasty to you. I wish you would report that person to the head office. I think that person would have, at a minimum, been reprimanded.Ok, there's my 2 cents.
Beauty