I had dinner with a very close genetic woman friend (no way she is a girl) the other night. One of the first people I would come out to about my CDing if I decided to, although I haven't. Later we had a long heart to heart talk about the journey.
This is one seriously independent woman. Lives alone, has her own business and so on. So far so good.
Here's where she says men have trouble. She loves to fish. Has a little boat that she takes out alone to do it in. Has a male friend with his own little boat. (no it's not me)
He has trouble with her carrying the boat around on her shoulders physically unaided. It bothers her that she isn't squeamish about gutting the fish. He thinks its all unfeminine.
A few weeks ago she decided to go deep sea fishing. Drove a few hours away and just bought a ticket and got on. Pretty soon the boat was 10 hours out in the Atlantic while she and the other passengers were asleep in their bunks. She had a great time. He was perturbed that she felt so confident that she could get on a boat alone with a bunch of strange men and go out on the ocean in this little seasick boat and not be afraid at some level. How unfeminine to do this without a male protector.
Hunting isn't much different but at least there isn't that fishy smell.
It's not just the fishing. There are the trips to Alaska, Mongolia, Kenya with only her girlfriend for company. There was the mindset decades ago that said if she was going to hitchhike alone all around the country that she could get raped, so she went on the pill and carried a knife. Probably wouldn't have helped and she wouldn't do it again but she had a blast. There was that one boyfriend years ago who hit her. She beat the crap out of him. (not me either)
She's always saying men find her unfeminine. (not me)
I've known her for half my life. She is a very warm, nurturing, emotionally cuddly person. I personally find her very pretty and sexy. Being with her is kind of like one big warm fuzzy. Years ago we were lovers but it didn't work out and we both agree we are meant to be friends. At times, like most close friends are, she has been a role model for me. My wife adores her.
So here is my question. I think.....I experience her as very feminine. Which is to say all that warm, nurturing cuddly stuff, and the fact that I have for a long time felt that this is one of the people I can most be myself with. What's so unfeminine about liking to go fishing? Or about cleaning your own food after you've killed it? Why do so many feel these two aspects of her personality are mutually exclusive? How does this relate to the feminine/female dichotomy in another thread here? Most of all what is unfeminine about strength, physical, emotional, spiritual? And as folks who are pretty familiar with the idea of crossing boundarys, what are peoples thoughts?
Andrea
interesting dinner conversation
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
-
Absaroka
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3344
- Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:30 am
interesting dinner conversation
everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
-
Beauty
- Retired Site Administrator
- Posts: 3662
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:30 am
- Location: Northern VA
- Contact:
Hi Andrea,
I feel unfeminine in a pack of guys is different than what's unfeminine when a guy is alone.
If you ask a pack of guys they'll say anything that doesn't involve a kitchen is unfeminine and they'll start laughing and giving each other high fives, even those who don't think it's funny. If you ask a guy alone that most of them, jocks excluded, will say a woman participating in nature sports (fishing, hunting, etc) isn't unfeminine. It changes the outing, but women add something to those outings that men enjoy most of the time. You can't have guy talk as much around women though.
I'm not sure, but I think it's culture and perception when you're raised a certain way is why people feel that women participating in outdoor sports is unfeminine.
Great thread! I can't wait to hear the answers. Oh.. and you have a cruuush.. you have a cruuuush.
Gracie
I feel unfeminine in a pack of guys is different than what's unfeminine when a guy is alone.
If you ask a pack of guys they'll say anything that doesn't involve a kitchen is unfeminine and they'll start laughing and giving each other high fives, even those who don't think it's funny. If you ask a guy alone that most of them, jocks excluded, will say a woman participating in nature sports (fishing, hunting, etc) isn't unfeminine. It changes the outing, but women add something to those outings that men enjoy most of the time. You can't have guy talk as much around women though.
I'm not sure, but I think it's culture and perception when you're raised a certain way is why people feel that women participating in outdoor sports is unfeminine.
Great thread! I can't wait to hear the answers. Oh.. and you have a cruuush.. you have a cruuuush.
Gracie
-
Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
Andrea,
I must first apologize as I have read your first paragraph several times and I still can not determine if you have actually told your friend that you are a crossdresser???
.
I will say this as I have somewhat the same situation, my training partner is a lesbian and recently (within the last six months) has found the love of her life, they are virtually inseparatable. I had come out to her about my crossdressing about a year ago and she said she had no problem with it.
The first and only time she and her lover have seen me dressed was at the "Night of Elegence Ball" put on by the local gays and lesbians group. Very formal affair and I was dressed appropriately. Anyway, since then my crossdressing has not come up other than briefly sort of jokingly and in passing, nothing negative, just "girl talk." Althought she will not admit it, and says she is completely comfortable with it she is a GG and I can tell it does bother her. Just like my friend Brandi who just recently competed her SRS, she is just not as "comfortable" around Virginia as she claims to be, I can sense it! As for my training partner, unfeminine??She is all woman - a woman powerlifter (totally drug-free) and at a body weight of 132 pounds can bench press 314 pounds, squat over 460 pounds and dead lift over 420 pounds. GG's are just as "different" as "we" are with their interests. (joke) Take my wife! ------------------- please! anyway she, my wife, is the most by definition, "feminine" female I have ever known - by all descriptions - can't play any sports - thinks manuel labor is the president of Mexico! Can not or will not lift heavy objects, vaccuum cleaner comes to mind! Loves talking on the phone for hours - usually to her mother! Has absolutely no male friends, etc, etc.
So yes, females are as diverse as "we" males are, BUT we as crossdressers have one BIG advantage over our "knuckle dragging" brethern. We have a GIFT that that comes with crossdressing and the ability to (some more than others) experience a glimpse into the female mind and hopefully take the good that lies there and share it with everyone we come into contact with whether dressed or en drab - this is our cause, our burden, our birthright! Use it, share it and be blessed by it!
Love,
Virginia
I must first apologize as I have read your first paragraph several times and I still can not determine if you have actually told your friend that you are a crossdresser???
.I will say this as I have somewhat the same situation, my training partner is a lesbian and recently (within the last six months) has found the love of her life, they are virtually inseparatable. I had come out to her about my crossdressing about a year ago and she said she had no problem with it.
The first and only time she and her lover have seen me dressed was at the "Night of Elegence Ball" put on by the local gays and lesbians group. Very formal affair and I was dressed appropriately. Anyway, since then my crossdressing has not come up other than briefly sort of jokingly and in passing, nothing negative, just "girl talk." Althought she will not admit it, and says she is completely comfortable with it she is a GG and I can tell it does bother her. Just like my friend Brandi who just recently competed her SRS, she is just not as "comfortable" around Virginia as she claims to be, I can sense it! As for my training partner, unfeminine??She is all woman - a woman powerlifter (totally drug-free) and at a body weight of 132 pounds can bench press 314 pounds, squat over 460 pounds and dead lift over 420 pounds. GG's are just as "different" as "we" are with their interests. (joke) Take my wife! ------------------- please! anyway she, my wife, is the most by definition, "feminine" female I have ever known - by all descriptions - can't play any sports - thinks manuel labor is the president of Mexico! Can not or will not lift heavy objects, vaccuum cleaner comes to mind! Loves talking on the phone for hours - usually to her mother! Has absolutely no male friends, etc, etc.
So yes, females are as diverse as "we" males are, BUT we as crossdressers have one BIG advantage over our "knuckle dragging" brethern. We have a GIFT that that comes with crossdressing and the ability to (some more than others) experience a glimpse into the female mind and hopefully take the good that lies there and share it with everyone we come into contact with whether dressed or en drab - this is our cause, our burden, our birthright! Use it, share it and be blessed by it!
Love,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
-
Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 2199
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
The way I describe my situation is that I am enjoying an inheritance that can not be shared. It is as unique as I am. And as such it is a blessing (as opposed to a burden,) that helps to make me a better person. I doubt I would be able to enjoy it were it a burden.
As for the things some consider unfeminine. I simply do not look at people that way. I see us all as man (woman/ man. All a mixture Equals in a sense, yet separated by our individual uniqueness. Therefore I do not confuse myself with such issues.
As for the things some consider unfeminine. I simply do not look at people that way. I see us all as man (woman/ man. All a mixture Equals in a sense, yet separated by our individual uniqueness. Therefore I do not confuse myself with such issues.
-
Absaroka
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3344
- Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:30 am
To answer some questions.
No I have not told her about my CDing. She would be one of the people I would be most likely to tell if I told anyone however.
Decades ago I had a huge crush. I like to think it has matured into friendship and love over the years. And interestingly, telling her about the crush, years later, and long after we were lovers, was a bit of a non event. I guess it had already been said.
Here's something funny. When she and her girlfriend are pretty certain they won't run into other hikers they like to hike down the trail in hiking boots and sexy lingerie. It's like they are women cross dressing as women. I've seen pictures. I don't go with them because they like their time together plus what they do is too hard. 2 weeks of food gets awful heavy. But I remember thinking that if I did go sometime I could bring my nightie too and they would think it was pretty funny.
Andrea
No I have not told her about my CDing. She would be one of the people I would be most likely to tell if I told anyone however.
Decades ago I had a huge crush. I like to think it has matured into friendship and love over the years. And interestingly, telling her about the crush, years later, and long after we were lovers, was a bit of a non event. I guess it had already been said.
Here's something funny. When she and her girlfriend are pretty certain they won't run into other hikers they like to hike down the trail in hiking boots and sexy lingerie. It's like they are women cross dressing as women. I've seen pictures. I don't go with them because they like their time together plus what they do is too hard. 2 weeks of food gets awful heavy. But I remember thinking that if I did go sometime I could bring my nightie too and they would think it was pretty funny.
Andrea
everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon