? for Penni & other SO's

[Jill S]

First off THANK YOU . If this board were only other CD's I don't think it would be much use to me personnely.
Question: As long as I can remember I have felt that Crossdressing was somehow degradeing towards women, do any women fell any of that? I think it's like I'm cheating- slipping out of a male role that seems pressuer filled to relax, but not paying what ever cost real girls do. Hard to explain but the thougt has always been with me.

[Terri(SO)]

I don't think your dressing for relaxation is cheating because you don't have to maintain it (it being heels, skirts and all) all day. If you look at it that way I cheat all the time.
What might feel like cheating is not sharing this part of yourself with your SO, who might appreciate that aspect of who you are. I say at least give her a chance, if she isn't appreciative, give her the chance to to opt out.

[Jill S]

O, I did come out to my wife; about 3 weeks ago now. She has been great about the whole thing, but it is so far from her comfort zone that I don't bring it up much now. This board is my only real outlet for questions- I'm not brave enough yet to do a face to face at a support group or anything.

[Penni SO]

Hi ya Jill.

I do not look at it as cheating either,what must remain though is the communication lines between you and your spouse.
As it is early days take things slowly,talk if you can with your spouse and ask how she truly feels about your dressing,sometimes you might not like what you hear,but I guess you must remember that we are all entitled to an opinion.
Feeling as though your cheating on your wife is actually a great issue to bring up.With my first husband we were together from 13 years to 25 years of age,before he told me about his dressing I often accused him of cheating on me.Just little,what I thought signs,the smell of perfume,makeup marks on his shirt and stockings in the back pocket of the drivers seat.He actually said those stockings belonged to him.

Cheating in the crossdresser sense with your femme is when the time you spend with your wife becomes less,to work that out compromise must be the only alternative never use it as a bargainig tool.

Change is another problem,once you tell your wife you dress and she accepts within reason,you will want to dress more,and then you will want to explore your femme more,which in a way your wife may look as cheating,cheating time from what she may have had with you.

It is all about working out what is best for you 2 individually and as a couple.
Remember honesty on any issue is imperative and unfortunately for as it is for many crossdressers your life and your every moment will be put under the microscope.
I have been with my 2nd husband who is a crossdresser for 14 and half years and we are going through a very difficult time,you see for nearly all his life he has kept the secret of his true gender.Yes he feels he is a female in the wrong gender.we have put our life under a microscope right now,to find out how we can both come out of this still together.It has been very difficult for me as I have always been an open book,I thought Marie was also,however that old friend fear kept her from really telling me what was going on.

NO JILL you are not cheating on your wife,you are just showing her another expression of your personality.

Good luck my friend,
penni

[Isabelle(SO)]

Two different angles strike me in response: 1) We all know women who dress more like men then the classic view of women--as a daily uniform they wear baggy pants, loose Tees or sweatshirts, hanging hair, grungy shoes, no make-up, etc. They are not CDs, they just don't take the trouble to "dress." No one would say are degrading men; just imitating them, which brings up the second point. 2) Imitation is a form of flattery. CDs are not making fun of women or clowning around. Their efforts are about as sincere as it gets. No, put the degrading notion out of your head; you're thinking too much. Enjoy.

[Amanda (SO)]

I agree with Isabelle(SO). It's not degrading in the least bit.

Another thing that I have thought was that people dress in ways that they find comfortable. I have always dressed in clothing from both the men's and the lady's sections. I wear what I wear because I like it, it's comfortable, and sometimes I look pretty good in it

Perhaps I am missing something (and please correct me if I am), but I fail to see how cross dressing is very much different. I do understand the emotional connections and the such to it... but other than that, I fail to see how it's much different.

In any case!

I don't believe there is anything degrading about it, nor have I thought of it as a form of cheating.

[Virginia]

Don't even think of dragging me off to the woodshed on this one. I expressed my opinion before similiar to what Isabelle has stated, and if anything, some would believe, that how some GG's present themselves in public, they are cheating on their own sex!!!
Most CDers admire woman! The fact that we have this "GIFT" and it just happens to express itself in the aspect of what we choose to wear and how we feel that GG's should present is in most cases just one of the ways that we show our admiration for the "fairer sex!"
If you have an SO that is at the very least open-minded enough to not throw up her hands and run screaming into the night then you have a real treasure! Where you are on the cross-dresser's continuum can definitely have a bearing on the relationship you have with your SO and assuming you dress, how you present yourself can also have a bearing on how your SO accepts you. If they are willing to help you in your presention then so much the better. If on the other hand they are your worst critic then you may have a developing problem.
As has been eluded to ----------communication will be the ultimate determiner of where you go on your "Magical Mystery Tour!"
Virginia

[Georgia(SO)]

Jill,

As far as I can tell, you asked three distinct questions - whether crossdressing in general is demeaning to women and whether it is specifically cheating on your SO. You also questioned whether it was *fair* - to get to wear all the frillies without having to go through all the stuff GGs go through.

1). Degrading. Hmmmm... I don't really think so. There are those who feel that those who choose to dress as street walkers or who exhibit a highly stylized sexual personna when dressed may be demeaning, but I personally don't think so. I don't see any indication that any of you reduce your view of what a woman is to just a pair of panties and bra, any more than some guy who looks through Playboy reduces all women to matchstick barely legal bodies.

OTOH, some CDs take on body language and movements that can be most definetly annoying - mincing, giggling, coy junk that most GGs despise in other GGs. Degrading? no. Annoying? Oh yeah...

2) Cheating. I personally don't *think* that dressing is cheating. Cheating, by definition, involves other people. I can, however, tell you that it most definitely *feels* like there is another woman in the relationship and my gut instinct often has a hard time getting around that part.

I can tell you that after a previous experience with an open marriage, CDing feels an awful lot the same. After all, when She appears, my guy disappears.

Like I said, I don't know any SO who would logically classify it as cheating, but I suspect that much of many SOs resistance to it comes down to it feeling like cheating.

3) Is it fair to get to play with our clothes and not go through all the other stuff GGs go through? Well, ya know, I really look awfully cute in a button down white men's shirt and nothing else, but I don't have to take on the commensurate board meetings and whatever it is that our society dictates is a male's responsibility. (Good thing, as I have my hands full with what society declares is a GG's responsibility.)

That said, yes, it can be annoying. Statistically, chances are good that you make more money than your female co-workers. Statistically, chances are good that you do less housework than your SO, spend less time caregiving than she does. In fact, according to a Time magazine article a couple of weeks ago comparing the differences between male and female activities, statistically, chances are quite good that you get more sleep and more recreational time than she does, although chances are equally good that you will spend more time on income producing work than she does.

But do I think it *unfair* of you to emulate a woman without taking on all female things? No. I think it is unfair of society to automatically assume that every woman will be responsible for the dishes and every man will be responsible for maintaining the carburetor.

-georgia(so)

[Jill S]

Thank you all, but Georgia you nailed my questions. Are you a 7 th grade english teacher? I know that's about my languege/spelling ability.

[Jess(SO)]

Jill,

Question: As long as I can remember I have felt that Crossdressing was somehow degradeing towards women, do any women fee any of that?

I can only answer this from my perspective but NO no way do I think it is degrading to women on th eother hand nor do I see it as Flattery (copying being the sincerest etc)

I have never considered it cheating either (having said that I have only known 3 months what I may feel tommorow I have no idea ) I do agree with terri so

What might feel like cheating is not sharing this part of yourself with your SO, who might appreciate that aspect of who you are. I say at least give her a chance, if she isn't appreciative, give her the chance to to opt out.

and to that I would add before she commits to the full relationship bit, so much of the unnacepting bit stems from the original I didn't know and we have been together X amount of time ------------- we were lucky in that I view it as, --------- she was a part of who I fell in love with even if I wasn't aware that she was there in the beginning, ------------ that in itself brought into play the trust thing, which has and does still cause problems but like I say it has only been 3 months.

Jill I don't know how long you hjave been cding but however long it is please please remember you wife has only had a moment to assimulate this and she really will have a lot going through her mind ---------- softly softly slow baby steps and hopefully you will both make it.

We have a really good supportive GG (genetic girls) forum here if you wife would like to talk to other supporing others (SO's) ( which she would be more than welcome to join)

Jess

[Georgia(SO)]

Jill S,

Are you a 7 th grade english teacher?

Nope - I haven't the ovaries to teach 7th grade anything!
-g(so)

[Absaroka]

I thought the idea that even though it is not actual cheating that it feels like cheating a very interesting one that probably gets to a lot of the discomfort some SOs feel with this.

Absaroka

[Georgia(SO)]

Abaroska,

Ya know - what the brain knows and what the gut experiences are often two very different things....

-g(so

[CJ]

Georgia wrote: [W]hat the brain knows and what the gut experiences are often two very different things...

Or, again: What the brain experiences and what the gut knows are often two very different things...

Love,
CJ

[Absaroka]

And the truth may be either or both.


I thought of something my high school daughter said with reference to CDers liking to dress like streetwalkers. She made the comment that it is a bit tiresome that so many of her girlfriends in high school have the same idea of a great halloween costume- dress like Ms. Superslut. We talked about this a bit and agreed that it's a bit like boys liking to dress as ninjas, superheros and the like. All extensions of our fantasys. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to defeat all attackers. Wouldn't it be nice to be so sexy that men would want to pay us for our bodies? (Mind you I've known enough former prostitutes to know the reality is very different. But thats not what the media tells us)

My point is the idea of dressing up as a sort of sexual villianess seems to resonate with both genders.

If anyone ever read the book Dracula, it is a masterpiece of discussing some of our fantasies about this. The movies is less explicit.

Absaroka