why modes?

[Absaroka]

Cj got me to thinking (again)

I have an aquaintence who presents as casual well dressed female, although he is male. However he flat out doesn't pass, his body and facial structure make it obvious in an instant that this is a man in women's clothing.

I've seen him in a variety of attire. What leaves me the most comfortable is clothing that is feminine but relatively asexual. CLothing that says I'm a man who likes womens clothing, as opposed to clothing that unsuccessfully tries to fool you into thinking he is a woman, or clothing that says I want to get laid.

[Carol Ann]

You know CJ is right in a lot of ways in what she saids.
When I came out to my daughter all she said to me was "daddy are you happy?, that's all that counts".

I agree as long as I am happy I could care less about what you think of my attire.

[Absaroka]

Carol Ann I wish I'd known more people like your daughter when I was younger and fewer who said that basic comfort, let alone happiness, were far less imortant than keeping up appearances and that my failure to wear a necktie might make others uncomfortable. We aren't talking about dresses here, just a choice of open necked mans shirt vs a necktie. This has a lot to do with my attitude towards folks saying you need to be "properly dressed" in whatever mode you present.

[Anita]

What really matters to me is that both these modes be subsumed, in my own life, under "self mode" (i.e., authentic selfhood mode). In other words, that I never forsake who I truly feel myself to be, as a person.

Very nice, CJ.

I want to put in a reminder here; in debating this question, we sometimes overlook the fact that it takes great courage to go out there in any kind of femme mode, either partial or complete. We're all fighting on the same side in this war.

If it's really ok for men to wear "women" clothes, then why hide the fact that a man is wearing "womens" clothes?

I'm not sure who you're quoting in the above, Ralitsa. I don't fool myself that very many people think it's "OK" to do what I do. I have made it OK for myself, and that's all I can do. You have done the same thing, from what I have read in your posts.

There is a hierarchy here. Society in general disapproves of all forms of gender change / variation. That's just how it is. But they have made a pecking order.

A certain percentage can accept a transsexual person's desire to fully transition. It may not be a large percentage, but it's there. Fair-minded people can see that a person who strongly feels they were born into the wrong body needs to correct the condition.

Less can accept what I do--live in both genders. There seems to be no good reason for it--I'm not "a woman trapped in a man's body," (in my case). So why am I doing this?

Probably you experience the most resistance to what you do, Ralitsa. I know that my friend John gets more flack than anyone else I know, because he doesn't fit the binary model. He gets resistance from gay, lesbian, and trans people, who should 'understand,' but are not comfortable with someone who combines gender cues.

What can we do? Well, it seems like we're the equivalent of a UN peace-keeping force. We're all from different armies and cultures, and yet we have a common goal. We want to see more tolerance of gender variations of all kinds. That's the big picture.

[Azurielle]

I relatively agree, although I have the alternative ''Socially acceptable mode'' for work and ''I'll wear whatever I want today - mode'' for weekends.

I generally don't worry about passing anymore, although I feel a need to dress properly and with regard to style, I recently decided to sport a chinstrap beard after significant pressure from my SO and I don't bother shaving it. The eerie part is, most of the time, people must think I'm some sort of Scotsman in a kilt because I get far less stares than when I was presenting as female but talking with my helplessly low voice.
People just never cease to amaze me.

[JB]

Hi All,

It's been a long time since I've posted. I'm John, Anita's friend, and the
guy who dresses femme from the waist down and guy from the waist up.

Anita is right, my presentation gets more response than many of you
folks might experience, because I'm clearly out there as a guy who likes
to shave his legs and wear skirts, pantyhose and heels. There's never
any question that I'm a guy when I'm out dressed femme.

Even though I have a moustache, I don't feel that I'm perceived as a
freak bearded lady. I go for a trimmed, tailored and dressy look, and
judging by reactions that I get in public, it appears that I'm achieving just
that. A majority of the reactions I get are positive, with varying amounts
of surprise or incredulity thrown in.

One time I was sitting in a Starbucks, and two women in their 30's were
sitting near by. After a while they just couldn't resist coming over to talk
to me, and we had a nice chat. I was dressed in a short tailored skirt,
sheer pantyhose and nice high-heeled pumps. From the waist up, I had
on a nice matching guy pullover and a coordinated sweater as well.
Toward the end of the conversation, one of the women said, "it looks so
nice..."

That says it all for me. The two of them clearly did not view me as a freak.

Cheers,

JB
John

[Ralitsa]

Well I find that in fact people are not so intolerant and unaccepting as many would suspect. I never try to pass as a woman, but I always wear womens clothes. Sometimes this is just slacks and a generic knit top, sometimes a dress, and everything in between. Interestingly, I find that women are much more friendly to me when I'm wearing a dress or a skirt than when I'm not. I don't know why this should be, maybe it's perceived to be less threatening, who knows. But I see endless statements such as "society doesn't accept...." and "if it was OK for men...." and such, but in my experience this is meaningless. I go pretty much everywhere I want wearing skirts and dresses, and only one time was I asked to leave. (OK, the dress I was wearing then was a little skimpy )
And this is every place imaginable (except Saudi Arabia, I admit I chickened out there).
It really seems to me that when it is obvious that I am a guy wearing womens clothes, people deal with it better than if they can't figure out whether I'm a woman, or whether I really am wearing women clothes. If I'm shopping while wearing male type clothes, people seem sort of uncomfortable, but if I'm wearing a dress and looking at bras, nobody seems to think twice about it.
What it really comes down to for me, is that I like dressing in womens clothes, but I'm not a woman and it's pointless to pretend otherwise. So I wear the clothes I like and don't pretend anything else.

[Azurielle]

I like dressing in womens clothes, but I'm not a woman and it's pointless to pretend otherwise. So I wear the clothes I like and don't pretend anything else.

Wow, couldn't have said it better myself. I'm adding this to my book of quotes.

[Anita]

It really seems to me that when it is obvious that I am a guy wearing womens clothes, people deal with it better than if they can't figure out whether I'm a woman, or whether I really am wearing women clothes.

It's good to hear that it's working for you out there, Ralitsa. As long as you can make it clear that you're comfortable with whatever you're doing, then it seems like other people can relax, too.

I think that's the common denominator to making any of this work--you have to be comfortable with what you're doing, be it full femme, half femme, or just wearing a dress. People really pick up on whether you're OK with yourself on this.

But please, Ralitsa, tell me that you're wearing some nice shoes with your dresses. No black ankle-high socks with Doc Martens shoes, pretty please? (A favorite choice of dress-wearing girls in San Francisco for many years.)

[Ralitsa]

black ankle-high socks with Doc Martens shoes,

Are you insane????? Of course not!

You are completely right, the shoes absolutely MUST match the outfit. I usually prefer to wear heels with a dress, but it really depends on the dress. I have some nice casual dresses that I wear for everyday, and then I will wear either ankle boots or sandals, depending on the weather. And almost always tights or pantyhose, so no socks, unless like today I'm wearing a long skirt so I don't need tights, and knee-high boots so you can't see my socks.

Shoes are a real problem because I travel so much. It's hard to get enough shoes in the suitcase, so I have to bring skirts and dresses that will go with the shoes that I bring. I have lots of really nice dresses and plenty of cute shoes that go perfectly, but I can't fit them all in my suitcase at the same time. I need bigger suitcases, it's the only answer.

[JB]

Hi All,

I always go for a complete look when I dress femme, since I dress this
way only once a week or so on the average. Shoes, therefore, are an
important part of the outfit, just like all the other items.

I'm usually going for a nice, tailored look, so dressy high-heeled pumps
are what I usually wear. It means alot to wear an outfit that's complete
in every detail, and I think shoes sometimes get forgotten now and again
for many folks.

Cheers, JB

[JohnH]

I don't try to pass as a woman, although I do the right things short of extensive makeup. I shave my arms, legs, and my face, and I have long hair and natural breasts. However, I have a really deep voice and move as a man, and I don't intend to change those things. In my femme mode I wear skirts and dresses, and where appropriate, heels.

[Lana]

I would love to go out fully fem but know I will never be able to do anymore than be a man in womens clothing, which is OK with me, But.
While most of us still have family and jobs to protect with companies who are not open to dressing as we feel and push a standardized dress code for mes and a separate one for the gals, I fit into that category of protection and have to dress openly as male while wearing the underpinnings of the softer side. I know at times I do appear as a man with breasts, that is fine with me and now I have even more reason to appear that way since undergoing chemo for liver cancer and who knows what sideeffects can do to the body from that.
I say dress as you feel comfortable and gives you the most protection be untill you no longer need that protection.
Be careful if the company you work for says they have an acceptance policy in place to protect us. Most of us are at will employees and can be terminated for whatever reason, warranted or not. If you present as someone whom the company regards as not in keeping with their public image, you are gone.
Lana

[Gillian]

Dress proper, and your age, I like that comment. If all humans would do that, the world would be better off.

[Kimberly Kael]

The problem with that approach, as I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, is that as soon as you accept that there are appropriate forms of dress determined by society then you run the risk of limiting personal expression. Most people would be happy to take cross-dressing off the table altogether by calling it "improper" dress. Then where are we?

I'd suggest instead that people dress with self awareness. You shouldn't be surprised that someone else might deem your attire age inappropriate, or otherwise improper based on your body type, your location, or the occasion. So long as you're breaking "the rules" deliberately and with purpose, aware of the possible consequences, I think it can be a perfectly respectable choice.