Hi Bernice,
Sometimes disturbing thoughts are exactly the right kind. Thank you for being so frank, which is hard to do.
I certainly find intercourse with a man, if not inconceivable, at least repugnant. But your experience of it in imagination was beautifully put and makes it easier to think about.
I suspect there are lots of us who respond to the idea of restraints, bonds, what have you. What else is a bra? And I think back to the excitement of pulp magazine covers of girls tied, chained, wrapped in alien tentacles, you name it ... and wonder how many of us saw the victimized heroine from inside as well as out!
.... "Still, men are typically pigs, and had I been born female, I would definitely have been a real prude." I bet this is more generally true among TGs (and maybe GGs too) than many of us might think. Certainly it is for me.
Great post!
Love, Robyn Katie
Would you rather be a woman?
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
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MsJoann
- Miss Emerald Goddess
- Posts: 101
- Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 11:00 am
- Location: Mystic, Connecticut
Tough question. Years ago I had to hide my dressing thinking I was one of a few but I can remeber being comfortable and natural while dressed.
I never had the amount of clothing that I have now...just a limited few things.
Back in the 70's, I had no way of accessing anything to do with SRS doctors, etc. Not to mention a tough father who would have kicked me silly had I told him that I wanted to be a woman full time. So I had to dress in secret and loved every minute of it....even if it were dressing for a couple hours.
Am I up for it now? No. I am 50 years old....my girlfriend knows along with a few other people. I am satisfied dressing and going out with my other cd/tg friends. I wear women's clothing even to work and that itself gives me the comfy feeling I need.
It's way too late in my life now for SRS to be a practical option..family and job-wise.
I never had the amount of clothing that I have now...just a limited few things.
Back in the 70's, I had no way of accessing anything to do with SRS doctors, etc. Not to mention a tough father who would have kicked me silly had I told him that I wanted to be a woman full time. So I had to dress in secret and loved every minute of it....even if it were dressing for a couple hours.
Am I up for it now? No. I am 50 years old....my girlfriend knows along with a few other people. I am satisfied dressing and going out with my other cd/tg friends. I wear women's clothing even to work and that itself gives me the comfy feeling I need.
It's way too late in my life now for SRS to be a practical option..family and job-wise.
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Robyn Katie
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:02 pm
Hi sisters, Here is some food for thought, as blogger Eliezer Yudkowsky contemplates what changing from M into F might really involve from a psychological viewpoint.
He sees it as pretty dire ... and pretty impossible. Sheds light on what real-world sex changes can and cannot accomplish.
From the extropian website of the Furure of Humanity Institute
http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/c ... tions.html
[substantial excerpts quoted verbatim -- see the website for the full version]
***
I think that the difficulty and danger of fiddling with emotions is oft-underestimated. ....
Changing sex makes a good, vivid example of the sort of difficulties you might run into when messing with emotional architecture ....
Let's suppose that we're talking about an M2F transformation. .... (Oddly enough, every time I can recall hearing someone say "I want to know what it's like to be the opposite sex", the speaker has been male. I don't know if that's a genuine gender difference in wishes, or just a selection effect in which spoken wishes reach my ears.)
Want to spend a week wearing a female body? Even at this very shallow level, we're dealing with drastic remappings of at least some segments of the sensorimotor cortex and cerebellum - the somatic map, the motor map, the motor reflexes, and the motor skills. As a male, you know how to operate a male body, but not a female one. If you're a master martial artist as a male, you won't be a master martial artist as a female (or vice versa, of course) unless you either spend another year practicing, or some AI subtly tweaks your skills to be what they would have been in a female body - think of how odd that experience would be.
Already we're talking about some pretty significant neurological changes. Strong enough to disrupt personal identity, if taken in one shot? That's a difficult question to answer, especially since I don't know what experiment to perform to test any hypotheses. .... we are already talking about serious changes of information. ....
What about sex? .... Remapping the connections from the remapped somatic areas to the pleasure center will... give you a vagina-shaped penis, more or less. That doesn't make you a woman. You'd still be attracted to girls, and no, that would not make you a lesbian; it would make you a normal, masculine man wearing a female body like a suit of clothing.
What would it take for a man to actually become the female version of themselves?
Well... what does that sentence even mean? ....
The person you would have been if you'd been born with an X chromosome in place of your Y chromosome (or vice versa) isn't you. If you had a twin female sister, the two of you would not be the same person. There are genes on your Y chromosome that tweaked your brain to some extent, helping to construct your personal identity - alleles with no analogue on the X chromosome. There is no version of you, even genetically, who is the opposite sex.
And if we halt your body, swap out your Y chromosome for your father's X chromosome, and restart your body... well. That doesn't sound too safe, does it? Your neurons are already wired in a male pattern, just as your body already developed in a male pattern. I don't know what happens to your testicles, and I don't know what happens to your brain, either. Maybe your circuits would slowly start to rewire themselves under the influence of the new genetic instructions. At best you'd end up as a half-baked cross between male brain and female brain. At worst you'd go into a permanent epileptic fit and die - we're dealing with circumstances way outside the evolutionary context under which the brain was optimized for robustness. Either way, your brain would not look like your twin sister's brain that had developed as female from the beginning.
So to actually become female...
We're talking about a massive transformation here, billions of neurons and trillions of synapses rearranged. Not just form, but content - just like a male judo expert would need skills repatterned to become a female judo expert, so too, you know how to operate a male brain but not a female brain. You are the equivalent of a judo expert at one, but not the other. You have cognitive reflexes, and consciously learned cognitive skills as well.
If I fell asleep and woke up as a true woman - not in body, but in brain - I don't think I'd call her "me". The change is too sharp, if it happens all at once.
Transform the brain gradually? Hm... now we have to design the intermediate stages, and make sure the intermediate stages make self-consistent sense. Evolution built and optimized a self-consistent male brain and a self-consistent female brain; it didn't design the parts to be stable during an intermediate transition between the two. Maybe you've got to redesign other parts of the brain just to keep working through the transition.
What happens when, as a woman, you think back to your memory of looking at Angelina Jolie photos as a man? How do you empathize with your past self of the opposite sex? Do you flee in horror from the person you were? Are all your life's memories distant and alien things? How can you remember, when your memory is a recorded activation pattern for neural circuits that no longer exist in their old forms? Do we rewrite all your memories, too?
Well... maybe we could retain your old male brainware through the transformation, and set up a dual system of male and female circuits... such that you are currently female, but retain the ability to recall and empathize with your past memories as if they were running on the same male brainware that originally laid them down...
Sounds complicated, doesn't it? It seems that to transform a male brain into someone who can be a real female, we can't just rewrite you as a female brain. That just kills you and replaces you with someone re-imagined as a different person. Instead we have to rewrite you as a more complex brain with a novel, non-ancestral architecture that can cross-operate in realtime between male and female modes, so that a female can process male memories with a remembered context that includes the male brainware that laid them down.
To make you female, and yet still you, we have to step outside the human design space in order to preserve continuity with your male self.
And when your little adventure is over and you go back to being a man - if you still want to, because even if your past self wanted to go back afterward, why should that desire be binding on your present self? - then we've got to keep the dual architecture so you don't throw up every time you remember what you did on your vacation.
Assuming you did have sex as a woman, rather than fending off all comers because because they didn't look like they were interested in a long-term relationship.
But then, you probably would experiment. You'll never have been a little girl, and you won't remember going through high school where any girl who slept with a boy was called a slut by the other girls. You'll remember a very atypical past for a woman - but there's no way to fix that while keeping you the same person. ....
He sees it as pretty dire ... and pretty impossible. Sheds light on what real-world sex changes can and cannot accomplish.
From the extropian website of the Furure of Humanity Institute
http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/01/c ... tions.html
[substantial excerpts quoted verbatim -- see the website for the full version]
***
I think that the difficulty and danger of fiddling with emotions is oft-underestimated. ....
Changing sex makes a good, vivid example of the sort of difficulties you might run into when messing with emotional architecture ....
Let's suppose that we're talking about an M2F transformation. .... (Oddly enough, every time I can recall hearing someone say "I want to know what it's like to be the opposite sex", the speaker has been male. I don't know if that's a genuine gender difference in wishes, or just a selection effect in which spoken wishes reach my ears.)
Want to spend a week wearing a female body? Even at this very shallow level, we're dealing with drastic remappings of at least some segments of the sensorimotor cortex and cerebellum - the somatic map, the motor map, the motor reflexes, and the motor skills. As a male, you know how to operate a male body, but not a female one. If you're a master martial artist as a male, you won't be a master martial artist as a female (or vice versa, of course) unless you either spend another year practicing, or some AI subtly tweaks your skills to be what they would have been in a female body - think of how odd that experience would be.
Already we're talking about some pretty significant neurological changes. Strong enough to disrupt personal identity, if taken in one shot? That's a difficult question to answer, especially since I don't know what experiment to perform to test any hypotheses. .... we are already talking about serious changes of information. ....
What about sex? .... Remapping the connections from the remapped somatic areas to the pleasure center will... give you a vagina-shaped penis, more or less. That doesn't make you a woman. You'd still be attracted to girls, and no, that would not make you a lesbian; it would make you a normal, masculine man wearing a female body like a suit of clothing.
What would it take for a man to actually become the female version of themselves?
Well... what does that sentence even mean? ....
The person you would have been if you'd been born with an X chromosome in place of your Y chromosome (or vice versa) isn't you. If you had a twin female sister, the two of you would not be the same person. There are genes on your Y chromosome that tweaked your brain to some extent, helping to construct your personal identity - alleles with no analogue on the X chromosome. There is no version of you, even genetically, who is the opposite sex.
And if we halt your body, swap out your Y chromosome for your father's X chromosome, and restart your body... well. That doesn't sound too safe, does it? Your neurons are already wired in a male pattern, just as your body already developed in a male pattern. I don't know what happens to your testicles, and I don't know what happens to your brain, either. Maybe your circuits would slowly start to rewire themselves under the influence of the new genetic instructions. At best you'd end up as a half-baked cross between male brain and female brain. At worst you'd go into a permanent epileptic fit and die - we're dealing with circumstances way outside the evolutionary context under which the brain was optimized for robustness. Either way, your brain would not look like your twin sister's brain that had developed as female from the beginning.
So to actually become female...
We're talking about a massive transformation here, billions of neurons and trillions of synapses rearranged. Not just form, but content - just like a male judo expert would need skills repatterned to become a female judo expert, so too, you know how to operate a male brain but not a female brain. You are the equivalent of a judo expert at one, but not the other. You have cognitive reflexes, and consciously learned cognitive skills as well.
If I fell asleep and woke up as a true woman - not in body, but in brain - I don't think I'd call her "me". The change is too sharp, if it happens all at once.
Transform the brain gradually? Hm... now we have to design the intermediate stages, and make sure the intermediate stages make self-consistent sense. Evolution built and optimized a self-consistent male brain and a self-consistent female brain; it didn't design the parts to be stable during an intermediate transition between the two. Maybe you've got to redesign other parts of the brain just to keep working through the transition.
What happens when, as a woman, you think back to your memory of looking at Angelina Jolie photos as a man? How do you empathize with your past self of the opposite sex? Do you flee in horror from the person you were? Are all your life's memories distant and alien things? How can you remember, when your memory is a recorded activation pattern for neural circuits that no longer exist in their old forms? Do we rewrite all your memories, too?
Well... maybe we could retain your old male brainware through the transformation, and set up a dual system of male and female circuits... such that you are currently female, but retain the ability to recall and empathize with your past memories as if they were running on the same male brainware that originally laid them down...
Sounds complicated, doesn't it? It seems that to transform a male brain into someone who can be a real female, we can't just rewrite you as a female brain. That just kills you and replaces you with someone re-imagined as a different person. Instead we have to rewrite you as a more complex brain with a novel, non-ancestral architecture that can cross-operate in realtime between male and female modes, so that a female can process male memories with a remembered context that includes the male brainware that laid them down.
To make you female, and yet still you, we have to step outside the human design space in order to preserve continuity with your male self.
And when your little adventure is over and you go back to being a man - if you still want to, because even if your past self wanted to go back afterward, why should that desire be binding on your present self? - then we've got to keep the dual architecture so you don't throw up every time you remember what you did on your vacation.
Assuming you did have sex as a woman, rather than fending off all comers because because they didn't look like they were interested in a long-term relationship.
But then, you probably would experiment. You'll never have been a little girl, and you won't remember going through high school where any girl who slept with a boy was called a slut by the other girls. You'll remember a very atypical past for a woman - but there's no way to fix that while keeping you the same person. ....
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Robyn Katie
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:02 pm
Hi Donna,
Yes, I noticed Y. is operating within a safely scientific airless bubble. He certainly has no awareness of shifting sexualities!
But even within his well-honed scientific scorn, I thought he had enough to say about the nuts & bolts of the process to lay out a field of play. That's not to say he knows how to win the game.
At best I suspect he's given us something to bounce off. And we don't often hear from scientists about emotions.
Now whether they're qualified to talk about emotions in the first place???
Well. Basically I agree with you. Grain of salt.
Love, Robyn Katie
Yes, I noticed Y. is operating within a safely scientific airless bubble. He certainly has no awareness of shifting sexualities!
But even within his well-honed scientific scorn, I thought he had enough to say about the nuts & bolts of the process to lay out a field of play. That's not to say he knows how to win the game.
At best I suspect he's given us something to bounce off. And we don't often hear from scientists about emotions.
Now whether they're qualified to talk about emotions in the first place???
Well. Basically I agree with you. Grain of salt.
Love, Robyn Katie
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Staci
- Miss Crystal Goddess
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:22 pm
Yes, I wish I was born a woman, it is not a matter of harder or easier, it is what I understand and can be who I really am. I love being with woman, making love to them but most of all being their friends. It is hard to be really good friends with other woman as a man. If I was woman who could gossip, shop, and do my hair and nails with my girlfriends would I want to have sex with them. While the thought of being with a man repulses me would I feel different with a female body or would I be more indelpent and not worry about men and just focus on my life and sharing it with my close girl friends. I have met so many women who live alone and are very happy, I really respect these woman and image growing older like that. As a man I do not think I can do that.
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Lizzie J Dixon
- New Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:33 pm
I wouldn't feel right as a woman. I'm a man, I know that, and I'm happy with that.
It's just certain occasions where dressing as a female makes me happy. I don't have a different personality as a female.. unless I want to tick off my guy friends by insisting we go into Claire's or some clothes shop. (Only with another female friend by my side, obviously)
x
It's just certain occasions where dressing as a female makes me happy. I don't have a different personality as a female.. unless I want to tick off my guy friends by insisting we go into Claire's or some clothes shop. (Only with another female friend by my side, obviously)
x
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Michelle Miller
- Miss Golden Goddess
- Posts: 556
- Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:34 pm
- Location: Bristol, Virginia
- Contact:
I've got no problem whatsoever marching straight into a Dress Barn or Lane Bryant, present company or my manner of dress be darned, especially if I see something cute in/through the window.Lizzie J Dixon wrote:unless I want to tick off my guy friends by insisting we go into Claire's or some clothes shop.
-Michelle-
"Inside me, there's a thin girl, screaming to get out, but cookies & ice cream usually shut her right up."
"Inside me, there's a thin girl, screaming to get out, but cookies & ice cream usually shut her right up."
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Absaroka
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3344
- Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:30 am
I guess I missed this post for a while. Robyn's post is very thoughtful and interesting.
Reading the experiences of people who transitioned, both MTF and FTM I find a couple of common threads. One is relief at finally being who they really are. Another is occaisional astonishment and dismay at some of the things accompanying the role they are now assuming. Much of this has to do with allocation of agression-MTFs discovering a new potential of targets, and FTM discovering that strange women now are sometimes afraid of them.
Lastly there is a blurring of memory. Jan Boylan describes it nicely in regards to seeing a playboy pinned up in a garage and wondering what is the big deal about naked women, and thinking to herself that she can dimly remember why this was important to her as a man. TO me it sounds like transition truly does involve a bit of a change of identity in unexpected ways.
Lastly of course is the pain involved. Children, no matter how grown and how accepting, for example, mourn the loss of a father or mother, even as the person continues to live. Spouses have an even harder time of it, and parents mourn the loss of a son or daughter no matter how much they welcome the new son or daughter.
Ab
Reading the experiences of people who transitioned, both MTF and FTM I find a couple of common threads. One is relief at finally being who they really are. Another is occaisional astonishment and dismay at some of the things accompanying the role they are now assuming. Much of this has to do with allocation of agression-MTFs discovering a new potential of targets, and FTM discovering that strange women now are sometimes afraid of them.
Lastly there is a blurring of memory. Jan Boylan describes it nicely in regards to seeing a playboy pinned up in a garage and wondering what is the big deal about naked women, and thinking to herself that she can dimly remember why this was important to her as a man. TO me it sounds like transition truly does involve a bit of a change of identity in unexpected ways.
Lastly of course is the pain involved. Children, no matter how grown and how accepting, for example, mourn the loss of a father or mother, even as the person continues to live. Spouses have an even harder time of it, and parents mourn the loss of a son or daughter no matter how much they welcome the new son or daughter.
Ab
everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
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Lizzie J Dixon
- New Member
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:33 pm
I'm not out about it to most people and am not really bothered about going in places much, i never go out dressed. I'll only enter Claire's or places with a female friend too.. so that makes 3 of us.Michelle Miller wrote:I've got no problem whatsoever marching straight into a Dress Barn or Lane Bryant, present company or my manner of dress be darned, especially if I see something cute in/through the window.Lizzie J Dixon wrote:unless I want to tick off my guy friends by insisting we go into Claire's or some clothes shop.
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Carolynn
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 2754
- Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 12:52 pm
- Location: Oklahoma City area
- Contact:
Absorka, what Jenny was describing is well known to most post op TS who are 5 or 10 years post op. It is called trans-sexing by some. Your mental reminiscences begin with "when I was a little girl", because you know you always were. If someone springs a picture of yourself as a child, you wonder who the sad little kid is. Even your mental image of yourself as a child is different, and some of the sadness and anguish of the conflict within engendered by society and religion just leaves you. And yes, you wonder what men could possibly find interesting in a playboy calendar.
A post-op named Kate Grimaldi (pen name) researched and wrote about trans-sexing. She listed 5 stages, that at first she saw as static, but later realized were progressive as the transformed person got farther and farther from the events that allowed them to be whole. These are not only internal, but also external recognitions by the public at large. A newly transitioning person may be read often, but derive some confidence from the forebearance of people with whom she interacts. As she gets more comfortable, and her actions therfore become more natiural, then people read her less often and she becomes more secure in herself. By the 4th level, the person rarely thinks about her past and sees herself wholly as a woman. At the 5th level, she never thinks about her medical past, and lives entirely within herself as herself and sees herself as the girl she was in her memory. That is not self delusion, but self acceptance and final integration. Often the person must leave the area and career she was known as a male, and relocate elsewhere to live as herself, even is she is not "stealth" in the usual sense of the word..
Not everyone passes through all these stages. There are some, who through nagging guilt, failed, unrealistic expectations, the constant reminder of family they are co-dependent with, or the presence of children they have responsibility for or whom they wish would even see them, these often never move past stage 3. In stage 3 they and most other people see them as women, but the transformed always know in the back of their minds the details of their journey, and may live in fear to some degree of being outed, accidentally or otherwise.
Some revert to a "male" state and decry the SRS and the surgeons who let them have the chance to be whom they claimed they were, but generally they would be miserable in whatever life role they might take, and should probably never have been allowed to transtition. Some of these I have read about managed to circumvent the standards of care in order to have surgery, skipping the psych evaluation, and that usually means trouble in adjustment since other personality factors are not faced and understood. These people may actually be very passable, working hard on becoming so, but never being comfortable in their new skin just as they were not in the old guise before transition. Most regret reverting sooner or later, and most are led to retransitioning by some charlatan religion that promises to "cure" them and then abandon's them when they present an acceptable physical presentation. Some become suicide statistics sooner or later. But that is another topic, however the above still pertains to Yudkowsky's comments.
In short, Yudkowsky doesn't know beans about the subject and is just a mundane trying to be erudite.
Very few people who are not trans really comprehend the feelings and the journey, the battle against societal norms, that a transitioning person must pass through. Often it is about loss of those one thought loved them unconditionally, but find it is not true. Losing friends, jobs, respect they commanded as "male" by virtue of acting the role (male privilege), all these things are part of the equation and often fear of the exent of loss is the reason so many transition later in life when they simply become desparate. It just takes awhile to grow up, to realize the desperation to live as oneself or to die. It is often mistaken as courage. To take the step is desperation, to complete it against all odds is courage.
There are a few among you that do have some grasp on the problems of transitioning, some that have decided they have to try to transition, completely or in part, but how many others can really comprehend the body and sex organs you were born with as alien growths that do not belong? Most of you are married or in relationships with GGs, have children, and jobs with respect of friends and coworkers. Think about being desperate enough to be willing to lose it all to be yourself. That is what transitioning is about. Not some maunderings on a blog by someone without a clue.
Carolynn
A post-op named Kate Grimaldi (pen name) researched and wrote about trans-sexing. She listed 5 stages, that at first she saw as static, but later realized were progressive as the transformed person got farther and farther from the events that allowed them to be whole. These are not only internal, but also external recognitions by the public at large. A newly transitioning person may be read often, but derive some confidence from the forebearance of people with whom she interacts. As she gets more comfortable, and her actions therfore become more natiural, then people read her less often and she becomes more secure in herself. By the 4th level, the person rarely thinks about her past and sees herself wholly as a woman. At the 5th level, she never thinks about her medical past, and lives entirely within herself as herself and sees herself as the girl she was in her memory. That is not self delusion, but self acceptance and final integration. Often the person must leave the area and career she was known as a male, and relocate elsewhere to live as herself, even is she is not "stealth" in the usual sense of the word..
Not everyone passes through all these stages. There are some, who through nagging guilt, failed, unrealistic expectations, the constant reminder of family they are co-dependent with, or the presence of children they have responsibility for or whom they wish would even see them, these often never move past stage 3. In stage 3 they and most other people see them as women, but the transformed always know in the back of their minds the details of their journey, and may live in fear to some degree of being outed, accidentally or otherwise.
Some revert to a "male" state and decry the SRS and the surgeons who let them have the chance to be whom they claimed they were, but generally they would be miserable in whatever life role they might take, and should probably never have been allowed to transtition. Some of these I have read about managed to circumvent the standards of care in order to have surgery, skipping the psych evaluation, and that usually means trouble in adjustment since other personality factors are not faced and understood. These people may actually be very passable, working hard on becoming so, but never being comfortable in their new skin just as they were not in the old guise before transition. Most regret reverting sooner or later, and most are led to retransitioning by some charlatan religion that promises to "cure" them and then abandon's them when they present an acceptable physical presentation. Some become suicide statistics sooner or later. But that is another topic, however the above still pertains to Yudkowsky's comments.
In short, Yudkowsky doesn't know beans about the subject and is just a mundane trying to be erudite.
Very few people who are not trans really comprehend the feelings and the journey, the battle against societal norms, that a transitioning person must pass through. Often it is about loss of those one thought loved them unconditionally, but find it is not true. Losing friends, jobs, respect they commanded as "male" by virtue of acting the role (male privilege), all these things are part of the equation and often fear of the exent of loss is the reason so many transition later in life when they simply become desparate. It just takes awhile to grow up, to realize the desperation to live as oneself or to die. It is often mistaken as courage. To take the step is desperation, to complete it against all odds is courage.
There are a few among you that do have some grasp on the problems of transitioning, some that have decided they have to try to transition, completely or in part, but how many others can really comprehend the body and sex organs you were born with as alien growths that do not belong? Most of you are married or in relationships with GGs, have children, and jobs with respect of friends and coworkers. Think about being desperate enough to be willing to lose it all to be yourself. That is what transitioning is about. Not some maunderings on a blog by someone without a clue.
Carolynn
"It’s not given to anyone to have no regrets; only to decide, through the choices we make, which regrets we’ll have,"
David Weber – In Fury Born
David Weber – In Fury Born
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Joselle
- Miss Sapphire Goddess
- Posts: 90
- Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:23 am
- Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Why not be both?
Considering we were all created from a man and a woman
is it such a stretch ? The native Americans had a word for it
two spirited.. male and a female spirit embodied in one body. They were considered the lucky ones..gifted creative
individuals who the whole tribe looked up to.
I think what they saw was that unlike this world we live in today being transgender was truly a gift from their creator
Considering we were all created from a man and a woman
is it such a stretch ? The native Americans had a word for it
two spirited.. male and a female spirit embodied in one body. They were considered the lucky ones..gifted creative
individuals who the whole tribe looked up to.
I think what they saw was that unlike this world we live in today being transgender was truly a gift from their creator
"You must love yourself before you love another. By accepting yourself and fully being what you are, your simple presence can make others happy."
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Absaroka
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3344
- Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2005 8:30 am
Carolann a very interesting post.
As for the idea of being both, I suppose it could work for someone who thought they were both. However most of the people who have written about transitioning (and I only know what I've been told by others) seem to feel that they are not both, they are of one particular gender, and that their bodies don't match that. At which point SRS becomes corrective surgery.
Again I only know what I've read by people who did this.
One comment. Although female crossdressing seems to be a completely different entity from male crossdressing, for a variety of reasons, FTM transistioning is very much transitioning. The percntage of SRS involving FTM also seems to be increasing. In talking of people transitioning I think this needs to be remembered.
Ab
As for the idea of being both, I suppose it could work for someone who thought they were both. However most of the people who have written about transitioning (and I only know what I've been told by others) seem to feel that they are not both, they are of one particular gender, and that their bodies don't match that. At which point SRS becomes corrective surgery.
Again I only know what I've read by people who did this.
One comment. Although female crossdressing seems to be a completely different entity from male crossdressing, for a variety of reasons, FTM transistioning is very much transitioning. The percntage of SRS involving FTM also seems to be increasing. In talking of people transitioning I think this needs to be remembered.
Ab
everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
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Miriam
- New Member
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:28 am
Womanhood
This is a great question. My answer is no, does that seem odd, well maybe. While I love being Miriam and spend 90% of my time as her, I still prefere being male. My enjoyment comes from creating Miriam. I'm not trying to fool anybody. I'm lucky, because I've always passed very well having very femme features. I've looked like a girl even when I dressed as a young boy.
The illusion is what I love, and though when I'm Miriam, I'm all Miriam, I still like the fact that I an a male.
The illusion is what I love, and though when I'm Miriam, I'm all Miriam, I still like the fact that I an a male.
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Robyn Katie
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 380
- Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:02 pm
Hi Carolynn,
Somehow I missed your August 2nd post until now. I just want to tell you how powerful it was for me, and what a breath of fresh air it was.
It is so seldom the TG/TS truth comes through unhindered, and you have found the words to say some very true things about it.
Thank you for coming down hard on the half-truths and incomprehension of Yudkowski. (He reminds me of somebody trying to build a human being with an erector set.) When I posted Yudkowski with a poker face, I was hoping to push the envelope far enough to get a response from TG/TS reality, and yours is the sort of thing I was hoping for.
Our scientistic world gives endless cachet to the Yudkowski gens to talk about these things that are so crucially important to us, though they lack all feeling for the subject. Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if only those who had true feeling for a subject spoke about it! (Whoo, dream on.)
I hope you'll feel moved to contribute more frequently, and say more. It's clear you have a great deal that's valuable to tell us.
Anyway once more, thank you for what you wrote. It touched me to the bottom of my heart, and some other places as well.
Love, Robyn Katie
Somehow I missed your August 2nd post until now. I just want to tell you how powerful it was for me, and what a breath of fresh air it was.
It is so seldom the TG/TS truth comes through unhindered, and you have found the words to say some very true things about it.
Thank you for coming down hard on the half-truths and incomprehension of Yudkowski. (He reminds me of somebody trying to build a human being with an erector set.) When I posted Yudkowski with a poker face, I was hoping to push the envelope far enough to get a response from TG/TS reality, and yours is the sort of thing I was hoping for.
Our scientistic world gives endless cachet to the Yudkowski gens to talk about these things that are so crucially important to us, though they lack all feeling for the subject. Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if only those who had true feeling for a subject spoke about it! (Whoo, dream on.)
I hope you'll feel moved to contribute more frequently, and say more. It's clear you have a great deal that's valuable to tell us.
Anyway once more, thank you for what you wrote. It touched me to the bottom of my heart, and some other places as well.
Love, Robyn Katie