Crossdressers-Haven.com

I have always wondered if the average CDer is not really a Part-Time TS. The common diffintion of a CD is a Male that wears female clothing or a Female that wears Male clothing. In this day and age, woman can openly Crossdress and no one cares. That is a woman can Crossdress, wear from inside out, male clothing, but still looks female, reconized as female, but everyone knows her clothing is male clothing. Society accepts this. On the other hand, if a Male Crossdresses, wears from inside out, female clothing, but still looks male, reconized as male, but everyone knows his clothing is female clothing, then Society regards this male a FREAK and/or PERVERTED. The only way this male can wear from inside out, female clothing, is to look female (wig and makeup) and be reconized as female. Then society accepts him as a female. Thus in reality, for a man to crossdress, he has to assume the role of a TS and not a CD. So I believe most Male-to-Female Crossdressers are Part-Time Transsexuals. I only know of a few men that do correctly Crossdress. One is "Butterfly Bill". He wears dresses and skirt/blouses, goes out, but has a beard, mustash, and no makeup or wig. Also there are forums dedicated to "Men in Skirts", but for the majority of male-to-female CDer, we are in reality Part-Time TS's.

Hi JoAnn,

I am not sure I agree with you, although I am no expert in such matters. However, I think that a TS actually wants to BE a woman, while the run of the mill CD just wants the LOOK like a woman.

To get personal, I have this strong desire, indeed, a need, to dress, and, hopefully pass in public. I have no desire to BE a woman or live as a woman 24/7, and I am a confirmed heterosexual. I suspect that this is true of many of our members (if I read them right). It depends on where you happen to be located on the Virginia continuum (she of the Magic Mystery Tour).

I'll be curious to see what further responses you get from your idea.

Hugs,

Lydia

Hi JoAnn--
I can agree with both you and Lydia, based on what you've said in your posts.

JoAnne wrote:

The only way this male can wear from inside out, female clothing, is to look female (wig and makeup) and be reconized as female. Then society accepts him as a female. Thus in reality, for a man to crossdress, he has to assume the role of a TS and not a CD.

Yes, this might be simplifying the issue, but there is some truth to it. It is definitely easier for me personally to find acceptance when I dress fully as a woman. It is harder for me if I only dress "somewhat" as a woman.

My friend John sometimes posts on here. He dresses female only from the waist down. Is it harder for him to go out dressed this way? I'd say so, but that is what he wants to do, and he accepts that people do not readily accept him.

Lydia, you're saying that you don't necessarily identify as a woman. Kimberly and Absaroka have said the same thing, and there are others on here, I'm sure. While none of you would necessarily say that you're a "part-time TS," you might agree that it is easier to be out in public if you're willing to go full femme, and not partial.

And when I say, "agree," I recognize that your agreement comes at a cost. I have seen the anger that comes up about this issue; that you are not free to dress as you would like. John faces predjudice within the TG community, too. Fulltime TG women have a hard time with someone who doesn't want to go "full femme. " The general public has a hard time with it, too. You're caught between cultures if you want to be a man who wears a skirt, for instance.

Our own forum member Elizabeth found it made her public life easier if she wore a wig and used breast forms. That wasn't her original preference, but she and her wife decided that it might work better for her if she adopted more feminine cues. Everyone has to decide their own comfort level with this, and how much they're willing to compromise.

For me personally, there's a part of me that does identify as a woman, so I'm comfortable with presenting all the appearances and gestures that go with that role. I can also see that not everyone who wears female clothing wants to go to such an extreme. So far, it still seems that case that public pressure pushes us to be one gender or the other.

It may seem to my family and friends that I'm being a rebel, but I'm actually trying to present myself in a way that is most understandable for them; that is, full-on woman mode. The real rebels are those of you who are longing for acceptance as third gender, or partial-dress gender, or no gender at all. Hopefully, both of our agendas can help further the cause.

I reckon I can agree to a point, that being that we aren't trying to be part time TS, but instead part time women.

I can only speak for myself ,my inner most self feels like a woman at times.These days I want to be a woman,these are the times when I need to dress so my outside matches what I feel on the inside.I dont take hormones or have any surgery because I know that this feeling will change back to all male.These are the days when I want nothing to do with being a woman,and are the days I used to wish it would all go away.It feels like I am on a large pendulum,going back and forth constantly.I wont try to label it,I just try to survive

I think Jennifer said it all in her last words,, “I just try to survive”

That is what it’s all about, a cd tries to dress as much like a female to survive walking about better. A TS tries being a woman all the time so she can survive her inner desires to be a woman. We take on certain traits in our lives that make survival that much more easier. Just like one has to take orders from their boss so the money flow doesn’t stop and make life harder to survive, so the worker adapts to the bosses rules, cds also have to adapt to their surroundings so that surviving isn’t a struggle, we try and make things easier and dressing and looking as much like a women as possible is the way I survive best.

But I do understand what you say Joanna,, a cd can be looked upon as a part time TS,, because a TS is basically the same thing as a real woman so another way to say this would be that cds are part time women, like Donna said.

PS_ On another forum that i am on,, somone brought up an interesting theory that all gay men can be considered or labeled as being transgender. they way they worked it out is quite interesting, maybe later I'll post those thoughts.

Wow! Good replies all of you. I guess each of us have a different idea of the mentioned "part time TS". For me, what I am and what I'd like to be may be three different things. I am a male and I'm very comfortable with that. Second of all, I'm also a crossdresser, and I'm very comfortable with that also. ( althought it took me many years to figure that out, as many here probably the same) I'm very comfortable dressing and my SO alows me a great latitude. It's just now that I'm in my senior years that I get these feelings that I think I would enjoy better living full time. My SO and I have discussed this and she said that once we retire and move out of state and build what we will live in for the duration, she wouldn't have a problem with that. I'm lucky in that she loves having the best of both worlds. So, I would love to be able to dress full time, but I wouldn't want to have SRS. Oh don't get me wrong. I've said many times I would love to be a female. But what I want and what I think I want isn't the same. Another thing, if the day ever comes (couple, four years) that I am able to dress full time, who knows! I may think it too much bother. NOT! I would like nothing better to be on 20 acres some where driving my tractor dressed in denim shorts and a white cotton sleevless blouse and white keds. ( tennies ) :lol:and a plastic hair band and girlie shades. Of course a little red lip stick. A fantasy?????? I hope not.

This is one of the most informative discussions so far. Hailey and I wrestle for our place within ourself. As Hailey has only recently came out with Her new freedoms, She is still trying to find herself. Thanks for the in site.

Diannna wrote:I would like nothing better to be on 20 acres some where driving my tractor dressed in denim shorts and a white cotton sleevless blouse and white keds. ( tennies ) :lol:and a plastic hair band and girlie shades. Of course a little red lip stick. A fantasy?????? I hope not.

Diannna,

It is quite realistic, I do it often except for the white keds, too dirty/muddy for while shoes! ;-) I was mowing the pastures the other day like that.

Back to the original question, I understand a TS to be someone who feels they are really a woman but with a body that doesn't reflect their real self. I don't feel that way.

I know I am not a woman and will never be. BUT I like to be feminine and like to dress and feel feminine even though I am not passable and I don't try to go "all the way" in how I look, I just want to be a bit femme (more so at home, just slightly in public).

I view myself a bit further along the TG scale than just crossdressing. It's not just dressing, it's feeling "somewhere inbetween" if that makes any sense.

Patti

IMHO
The driving force of all we do is between our ears. We are what we say we are. If we cant make up our minds then that just means we havent decided.
Gender is what you say it is for yourself. We all have different perspectives, I find that variety infinitely intriguing. If a label happens to fit...cool, if it doesnt...equally cool.

xox
Sylvia

Hi girls,

I have believed for a long time now that the underlying phenomenon of transgender, regardless of if one is a TS or a CD, is the same. Harry Benjamin thought so too. I believe the need just has varying degrees.

Love always,
Elizabeth

WOW…great reponses…….Here is my 2 cent worth.

A woman that crossdresses does it as a fashion statement. She may be wearing male clothing, but she is still a woman. She is NOT trying to be or emulate a Man. On the other hand a man that crossdresses is not only making a fashion statement but IS trying to be a woman and/or IS emulating a woman. A Male-to-Female Transsexual IS not only making a fashion statement, but IS trying to become a woman in all respects. I would say when a male crossdresser is closeted, they are more like the woman that crossdress. When the same male closeted crossdresser decides to exit their closet and go out into the world dressed as a woman, then she becomes more like the Transsexual if she want to be able to function without being hasseled. A man who goes out in public dressed in femware but still presents as a male WILL not be accepted like the woman that goes out into public dressed in maleware and presents as a female. One thing to remember is ALL Transsexuals were Crossdressers at first, but not all Crossdressers become Transsexuals.

In MY conclusion:

1. A woman that crossdress is not the same as man that crossdresses. She does it as a fashion statement and is NOT trying to be or emulate a Man.
2. A man that crossdress that goes out in public as a woman CAN be similar to a Transsexual. Thus could be classified as a “Part time TS”
3. A Transsexual that goes 24/7 is no longer a crossdresser but IS a woman.