Hi sisters,
Over the course of a lifetime I've often wanted to find personal accounts of girlhood and womanhood experience that really opened up on what it is like to be female.
Such sources are rare. Very few women writers (or women of any sort) have chosen to say much about their own inner experience as a female, even when writing autobiography or writing about their lives in any context. (Equally, neither have men been much more forthcoming about male experience.)
In short, the subject of our curiosity is very seldom discussed. Women authors have other things they want to talk about than their own femaleness. The experience of being a girl and woman is taken for granted, put behind them, ignored in favor of the kind of world they want to portray, fictional or nonfictional.
What are your favorite evocations of girlhood and womanhood by women? -- any generally available source: books, videos, films, blogs, whatever.
(I'd like to rule out men authors. Not that men haven't evoked females remarkably well -- for instance, Booth Tarkington's Seventeen is a fine treatment of a girl growing into womanhood, and F. Scott Fitzgerald's "Bernice Bobs Her Hair" is too -- not to mention Alice in Wonderland! But it is surprising how many of our published notions of what women are like, from Hester Prynne to Nancy Drew, derive from men. I don't want to hear a man's opinion, however well observed -- I want to hear from the woman herself.)
With that criterion, here are a few books that have taught me something about women's inner experience related to gender:
BOOKS - NONFICTION
Mary Pipher, Reviving Ophelia
Sara Shandler, Ophelia Speaks
Naomi Wolf, Promiscuities (her other books, too)
Mary Karr, Cherry
Shere Hite, The Hite Report (and subsequent books)
Rita Freedman, Beauty Bound
Anonymous, Autobiography of a Schizophrenic Girl
BOOKS - FICTION
Elizabeth Bowen's novels and stories,
especially The Little girls, Death of the Heart, and Eva Trout
Barbara Newhall Follett, The House Without Windows
Sharon Creech, Absolutely Normal Chaos (Adolescent)
Tanith Lee, Biting the Sun (SF)
Doris Piserchia, Earthchild (SF)
Louisa May Alcott, Little Women
- some would mention Jane Austen - good luck if you try (she does nothing for me).
FILMS
There are quite a few! - these are going to take more thought.
What about you? My hope is that together we will enlarge the pool of readings and viewings we can all draw on to understand more about these girls and women we so love to emulate.
Love, Robyn Katie
Evoking Girlhood: Sources
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Robyn Katie
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Robyn Katie
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Elizabeth
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I girls,
When I was in fifth grade there was a book going around that all the girls were reading. It was well known this was not a book for boys to be reading, although the reasons were not entirely clear to me at age 10. But having recently discovered my transsexuality and believing myself to be a girl hiding in a boys body, I wanted to read it.
I read many such things. I would take out the directions of the hair color box and read all of it, even the very fine print. The instructions for tampons and maxipads. How to fit undergarments, from the Sear catalog. I wanted to know where girls pee'd from. I wanted to know everything about girls. So a book just for preteen girls seemed like a must for me. But how?
How would I get a copy of it and how would I read it in secrecy? In two years the answer came. One of my favorite playmates growing up was my younger cousin. A girl. We played together for years. Girl play, not boy play. So one day I see it on her bookshelf, laying right on top. A very used copy of of Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret by Judy Blume.
Later without drawing too much attention to myself, I asked her if she read it. She said "yeah, a long time ago". Which in kid speak could mean she finished it yesterday. So I bided my time and let her forget about it. Eventually it made it's way into the bookshelf where it was no longer in such an obvious position. I then took it.
It was the first time I ever felt like I had been let into the secret girl world and even then it felt right. It was a great book and I recommend all of you transsexuals read it if you have not. And those of you who want a better understanding of your female side may get enjoyment from it too. Of course I had to read it in secrecy in my basement room with special precautions. I read it, returned it and no one was ever the wiser.
Except me. I was the wiser.
Love always,
Elizabeth
When I was in fifth grade there was a book going around that all the girls were reading. It was well known this was not a book for boys to be reading, although the reasons were not entirely clear to me at age 10. But having recently discovered my transsexuality and believing myself to be a girl hiding in a boys body, I wanted to read it.
I read many such things. I would take out the directions of the hair color box and read all of it, even the very fine print. The instructions for tampons and maxipads. How to fit undergarments, from the Sear catalog. I wanted to know where girls pee'd from. I wanted to know everything about girls. So a book just for preteen girls seemed like a must for me. But how?
How would I get a copy of it and how would I read it in secrecy? In two years the answer came. One of my favorite playmates growing up was my younger cousin. A girl. We played together for years. Girl play, not boy play. So one day I see it on her bookshelf, laying right on top. A very used copy of of Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret by Judy Blume.
Later without drawing too much attention to myself, I asked her if she read it. She said "yeah, a long time ago". Which in kid speak could mean she finished it yesterday. So I bided my time and let her forget about it. Eventually it made it's way into the bookshelf where it was no longer in such an obvious position. I then took it.
It was the first time I ever felt like I had been let into the secret girl world and even then it felt right. It was a great book and I recommend all of you transsexuals read it if you have not. And those of you who want a better understanding of your female side may get enjoyment from it too. Of course I had to read it in secrecy in my basement room with special precautions. I read it, returned it and no one was ever the wiser.
Except me. I was the wiser.
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Erin L
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When I was in high school, I read a novel called "Lisa Bright and Dark", about a teenage girl who was mentally ill. I was fascinated by it because it was written from the perspective of a close girlfriend. However, it misses Robyn Katie's list because it was written by a man, John Neufeld.
But I remember it felt real when I read it - I felt like I was getting a girl's viewpoint. And what is interesting is that throughout my college years, the book remained on my bookshelf and whenever visiting girls perused my books, that was the one they pulled out.
As far as films go, I can remember being 12 or 13 and seeing Peter Sellers' film, "The World of Henry Orient", which was more or less from the perspective of a couple of preteen girls.
But I remember it felt real when I read it - I felt like I was getting a girl's viewpoint. And what is interesting is that throughout my college years, the book remained on my bookshelf and whenever visiting girls perused my books, that was the one they pulled out.
As far as films go, I can remember being 12 or 13 and seeing Peter Sellers' film, "The World of Henry Orient", which was more or less from the perspective of a couple of preteen girls.
I'm not that kind of girl.
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Anita
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Hi Robyn--
I remembered a series by Eleanor Estes called The Moffats, written in the 40s. I originally started reading the series because of Rufus, the youngest son, but I also read The Middle Moffat, about his sister Janey, who was 9. It might have been the only book I ever read as a boy, that was from a girl's perspective. (And written by a woman.)
I read Erica Jong's Fear of Flying--that was a big deal, in its time (1973). I read Rita Mae Brown, too. Both these women were more humorous in their recounting of women's experiences. I like Nancy Friday's books--Jealousy, and Beauty. She wrote about some ugly aspects of human life, and didn't look away. She was analyzing from the view of a woman's social upbringing, but the conclusions she came up with seemed universal, for me.
I read some angry women's writings, too, and that was tough sledding. Susan Brownmiller's Against Our Will was the hardest one to deal with. It's about rape, and I was able to read it a little more objectively last year.
I could never handle women's romance novels, (and I'm the kind of person who reads cereal boxes at the table.) They just didn't appeal to me, but I think you'll find a lot of cultural ideals about what it means to be female in them, Robyn. They're definitely written by women, too.
I remembered a series by Eleanor Estes called The Moffats, written in the 40s. I originally started reading the series because of Rufus, the youngest son, but I also read The Middle Moffat, about his sister Janey, who was 9. It might have been the only book I ever read as a boy, that was from a girl's perspective. (And written by a woman.)
I read Erica Jong's Fear of Flying--that was a big deal, in its time (1973). I read Rita Mae Brown, too. Both these women were more humorous in their recounting of women's experiences. I like Nancy Friday's books--Jealousy, and Beauty. She wrote about some ugly aspects of human life, and didn't look away. She was analyzing from the view of a woman's social upbringing, but the conclusions she came up with seemed universal, for me.
I read some angry women's writings, too, and that was tough sledding. Susan Brownmiller's Against Our Will was the hardest one to deal with. It's about rape, and I was able to read it a little more objectively last year.
I could never handle women's romance novels, (and I'm the kind of person who reads cereal boxes at the table.) They just didn't appeal to me, but I think you'll find a lot of cultural ideals about what it means to be female in them, Robyn. They're definitely written by women, too.
Last edited by Anita on Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Robyn Katie
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Yes, the Nancy Friday books, how could I have left those out. Her My Secret Garden was perhaps the first that made me feel as if the lid had been lifted.
Erin, you mentioned "The Historian." I'll look for that. By coincidence I'm just now reading the second of Elaine Bergstrom's excellent continuations of the Dracula story from the viewpoint of Mina Harker: "Mina" and "Blood to Blood" -- I didn't mention them only because their focus is less on femaleness than on the narrative events.
I am tempted to break my own woman-authors-only rule and mention L. Frank Baum's Oz books, for Dorothy and Trot and Betsy and Scraps the Patchwork girl all seemed like aspects of me, and it was exciting to move through the story with them. Foremost of all, of course, was the TG dream heroine (why else my avatar?) Ozma, the "little ruler" who was bewitched by an evil spell into the body of a boy, then was released into shimmering girlhood. Whew. My childhood was never the same after that.
... yes, I see there's no way to avoid male authors.
In the feminist line, one extraordinary novel is Monica Wittig's Les Guerilleres. (Despite the title, it's in English translation.) It is one of a number of attempts to imagine an all-female society. These date back at least as far as Philip Wylie's The Disappearance, which imagines the world suddenly split into two parallel worlds -- for men, all women disappear; for women, all men disappear -- and how life plays out for each gender after that. Fascinating! But also a good example of how male authors can distort the picture. Wylie is fairly chauv by today's standards; he was the acrid opponent of "Momism." His women characters were very definitely viewed from the outside, and often with patronizing hostility.
Everyone's suggestions so far are right on the mark. And yes, as in the case of the Neufeld book, if a male author shows unusual insight, it's only right to mention his work.
More, more!
Love, Robyn Katie
Erin, you mentioned "The Historian." I'll look for that. By coincidence I'm just now reading the second of Elaine Bergstrom's excellent continuations of the Dracula story from the viewpoint of Mina Harker: "Mina" and "Blood to Blood" -- I didn't mention them only because their focus is less on femaleness than on the narrative events.
I am tempted to break my own woman-authors-only rule and mention L. Frank Baum's Oz books, for Dorothy and Trot and Betsy and Scraps the Patchwork girl all seemed like aspects of me, and it was exciting to move through the story with them. Foremost of all, of course, was the TG dream heroine (why else my avatar?) Ozma, the "little ruler" who was bewitched by an evil spell into the body of a boy, then was released into shimmering girlhood. Whew. My childhood was never the same after that.
... yes, I see there's no way to avoid male authors.
In the feminist line, one extraordinary novel is Monica Wittig's Les Guerilleres. (Despite the title, it's in English translation.) It is one of a number of attempts to imagine an all-female society. These date back at least as far as Philip Wylie's The Disappearance, which imagines the world suddenly split into two parallel worlds -- for men, all women disappear; for women, all men disappear -- and how life plays out for each gender after that. Fascinating! But also a good example of how male authors can distort the picture. Wylie is fairly chauv by today's standards; he was the acrid opponent of "Momism." His women characters were very definitely viewed from the outside, and often with patronizing hostility.
Everyone's suggestions so far are right on the mark. And yes, as in the case of the Neufeld book, if a male author shows unusual insight, it's only right to mention his work.
More, more!
Love, Robyn Katie
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Absaroka
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Property Of by Alice Hoffman
Women and Madness by Phyliss Chesler
The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath
The Testoterone Files by Max Wolf (I include him because he was female at one time.
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
Buried Alive I forget the author. It's the biography of Janis Joplin by a close female friend.
Seduction is a four letter word by Germaine Greer
My maternal grandmothers autobiography (unpublished, writen just for family)
Absaroka
Women and Madness by Phyliss Chesler
The Bell Jar by Sylvia Plath
The Testoterone Files by Max Wolf (I include him because he was female at one time.
The Color Purple by Alice Walker
Buried Alive I forget the author. It's the biography of Janis Joplin by a close female friend.
Seduction is a four letter word by Germaine Greer
My maternal grandmothers autobiography (unpublished, writen just for family)
Absaroka
everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon
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CJ
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Hi all,
Here are a few titles I really enjoyed:
The Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants by Ann Brasheres (I recommend the film, too)
Housekeeping by Marilynne Robinson (film also recommended)
The Color Purple by Alice Walker (ditto)
Fresh Girls and Other Stories by Evelyn Lau
Cat's Eye by Margaret Atwood
The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie by Muriel Spark
Lives of Girls and Women by Alice Munro
Little Altars Everywhere by Rebecca Wells
Illumination Night by Alice Hoffman
Little Women by Louisa May Alcott
A Heart of Stone by Renate Dorrenstein
What Girls Learn by Karin Cook
Gazelle by Rikki Ducornet
The Sex of the Stars by Monique Proulx (about a teenage girl trying to cope with her father's transsexualism) (avoid the movie)
and many, many more.
I'll go out on a limb here and make a generalization: I find that women writers are better at fleshing out male characters than are men at fleshing out female ones. Not sure why that should be. Women are better at "listening to personality," maybe? Who knows?
Great idea for a thread, Robyn.
Love,
CJ
Here are a few titles I really enjoyed:
The Sisterhood of the Travelling Pants by Ann Brasheres (I recommend the film, too)
Housekeeping by Marilynne Robinson (film also recommended)
The Color Purple by Alice Walker (ditto)
Fresh Girls and Other Stories by Evelyn Lau
Cat's Eye by Margaret Atwood
The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie by Muriel Spark
Lives of Girls and Women by Alice Munro
Little Altars Everywhere by Rebecca Wells
Illumination Night by Alice Hoffman
Little Women by Louisa May Alcott
A Heart of Stone by Renate Dorrenstein
What Girls Learn by Karin Cook
Gazelle by Rikki Ducornet
The Sex of the Stars by Monique Proulx (about a teenage girl trying to cope with her father's transsexualism) (avoid the movie)
and many, many more.
I'll go out on a limb here and make a generalization: I find that women writers are better at fleshing out male characters than are men at fleshing out female ones. Not sure why that should be. Women are better at "listening to personality," maybe? Who knows?
Great idea for a thread, Robyn.
Love,
CJ
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Jeannie
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You might understand why I think the way I do.
Hi Ladies
My taste in books is a bit more blue collar and way less thought provoking. These are a list of my latest from last year.
1.Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain. I always watch him on his show"No reservations." If you read this you will never go out to eat in a restaurant again and never, and I mean never eat anything with hollandaise sauce. You don't want to know.
2.Drag King Dreams by Leslie Feinberg. My son JPs best friend Trevor has two Moms and one gave me this to read. Those Lesbians have very ecclectic taste CJ.
3. Alice in Genderland by Richard Novic,MD. He's a crossdressing ,Jewish Phychiatrist who is out of his mind.It's a good read.
4.Magical Thinking by Augusten Burroughs. I really liked "Running with Scissors,Dry and Sellivision by him. Nothing better than a Gay man addicted to alcohol and drugs who writes books.
5. One of my friend Gary's favorites. "Even more letters from a nut" by Ted L. Nancy. The backword is by Jerry Seinfeld.
6. Napalm and silly putty by George Carlin. A must read.
7. Psychotic reactions and carburetor dung by legendary Rock'n' roll critic Lester Bangs. I long for the good old days.
The last two were a Christmas gift from my daughter Katie.
8. Too fat to fish by Artie Lange. It's amazing he is still alive!
9. This was my favorite ladies. Lamb,the gospel according to Biff,Christ's childhood pal by Christopher Moore. He is definately going to Hell.
I have to go check my croutons. Never throw out stale Italian bread ladies. Waste not want not.Hugs.
Love
Auntie Jeannie
My taste in books is a bit more blue collar and way less thought provoking. These are a list of my latest from last year.
1.Kitchen Confidential by Anthony Bourdain. I always watch him on his show"No reservations." If you read this you will never go out to eat in a restaurant again and never, and I mean never eat anything with hollandaise sauce. You don't want to know.
2.Drag King Dreams by Leslie Feinberg. My son JPs best friend Trevor has two Moms and one gave me this to read. Those Lesbians have very ecclectic taste CJ.
3. Alice in Genderland by Richard Novic,MD. He's a crossdressing ,Jewish Phychiatrist who is out of his mind.It's a good read.
4.Magical Thinking by Augusten Burroughs. I really liked "Running with Scissors,Dry and Sellivision by him. Nothing better than a Gay man addicted to alcohol and drugs who writes books.
5. One of my friend Gary's favorites. "Even more letters from a nut" by Ted L. Nancy. The backword is by Jerry Seinfeld.
6. Napalm and silly putty by George Carlin. A must read.
7. Psychotic reactions and carburetor dung by legendary Rock'n' roll critic Lester Bangs. I long for the good old days.
The last two were a Christmas gift from my daughter Katie.
8. Too fat to fish by Artie Lange. It's amazing he is still alive!
9. This was my favorite ladies. Lamb,the gospel according to Biff,Christ's childhood pal by Christopher Moore. He is definately going to Hell.
I have to go check my croutons. Never throw out stale Italian bread ladies. Waste not want not.Hugs.
Love
Auntie Jeannie
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Erin L
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Oh, my! CJ! How could I have forgotten "Sisterhood..."!?
I would agree with you on the comparable abilities of authors of different genders to flesh out charcaters of the opposite gender, but only to a degree. It may go more to the nature of the writing than to the gender of the author.
For example, James A. Michener created a number of memorable female characters - Nellie Forbush, Yvonne Marmelle, Clay Basket and Mattie Quimper being among my favorites. But Michener also wrote in exquisite (some would say excrutiating) detail. Tom Clancy, on the other hand, hasn't created any female characters that I would consider well fleshed out; then again, his novels focus more on action than on character development, and even his male characters tend to be somewhat one-dimensional.
Another interesting tidbit - the focus in Harper Lee's "To Kill A Mockingbird" is almost entirely on the male characters - Atticus Finch, Sherriff Tate, Tom Robinson and even young Dill - even though the story is told through the eyes of a young girl. She reminds us from time to time that she is a child, but leaves us with no insights into the childhood of a girl, per se.
I would agree with you on the comparable abilities of authors of different genders to flesh out charcaters of the opposite gender, but only to a degree. It may go more to the nature of the writing than to the gender of the author.
For example, James A. Michener created a number of memorable female characters - Nellie Forbush, Yvonne Marmelle, Clay Basket and Mattie Quimper being among my favorites. But Michener also wrote in exquisite (some would say excrutiating) detail. Tom Clancy, on the other hand, hasn't created any female characters that I would consider well fleshed out; then again, his novels focus more on action than on character development, and even his male characters tend to be somewhat one-dimensional.
Another interesting tidbit - the focus in Harper Lee's "To Kill A Mockingbird" is almost entirely on the male characters - Atticus Finch, Sherriff Tate, Tom Robinson and even young Dill - even though the story is told through the eyes of a young girl. She reminds us from time to time that she is a child, but leaves us with no insights into the childhood of a girl, per se.
I'm not that kind of girl.
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Robyn Katie
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Anita, your suggestion about the romance novels is exactly right. They can be soupy-sentimental, yes, but they have everything to do with the "feeling female and female feelings" aspect I was talking about, that is so elusive elsewhere.
I would also add their cousins the modern Gothic novels, with their moody accounts of mingled love and fear as their heroines encounter saturnine men in eerie surroundings under dire circumstances. Reflecting, I guess, how edgy the more vulnerable sort of woman can feel encountering the unpredictable Mysterious Male.
Which is, in a way, how guys feel on encountering the Mysterious Female, huh? In both directions there are unknowns, some of which are fearful, others trying, and the future is a dangerous gamble, but the fascination never lets up.
Love, Robyn Katie
I would also add their cousins the modern Gothic novels, with their moody accounts of mingled love and fear as their heroines encounter saturnine men in eerie surroundings under dire circumstances. Reflecting, I guess, how edgy the more vulnerable sort of woman can feel encountering the unpredictable Mysterious Male.
Which is, in a way, how guys feel on encountering the Mysterious Female, huh? In both directions there are unknowns, some of which are fearful, others trying, and the future is a dangerous gamble, but the fascination never lets up.
Love, Robyn Katie
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Robyn Katie
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The books of Jean Rhys, maybe. Particularly "Wide Sargasso Sea," it's years since I looked at it, but I remember its peculiar power.
And for sheer torment, Carson McCullers -- "Reflections in a Golden Eye," for instance. A sheer concentrated journey through female mind hell. "Girl Interrupted" and "The Snake Pit" are lesser examples of the same.
But it's the more "normal" (what a word!) states, less often described, that are so difficult to get at.
Love, Robyn Katie
And for sheer torment, Carson McCullers -- "Reflections in a Golden Eye," for instance. A sheer concentrated journey through female mind hell. "Girl Interrupted" and "The Snake Pit" are lesser examples of the same.
But it's the more "normal" (what a word!) states, less often described, that are so difficult to get at.
Love, Robyn Katie
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Amelie-Laveau
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Sorry but I rarely read books but I do read comics. And there are some comics that I relate to. As some here are reklting to books of womanhood I tend to go for comice that relate to me, not so much for being a woman.
I like the comic The Invisibles cause they have a character that I can look up to as one of my own. She is Lord Fanny a Brazilian shemale who's into the black arts, witchcraft and this fits me to a tee.
Also I like Doom Patrol comic and the character Crazy Jane, while she is not transgender, she does have similar mental issues that I face and it's nice ro read a comics with these people not as the butt end of the joke but as a serious character.
I like the comic The Invisibles cause they have a character that I can look up to as one of my own. She is Lord Fanny a Brazilian shemale who's into the black arts, witchcraft and this fits me to a tee.
Also I like Doom Patrol comic and the character Crazy Jane, while she is not transgender, she does have similar mental issues that I face and it's nice ro read a comics with these people not as the butt end of the joke but as a serious character.