the grass on the other side of the fence is dead.

Absaroka · Post by **Absaroka** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:26 am

The other day at one of my 12 step meetings we read a chapter where the writer (a morbidly obese woman) talked about how she always thought that if she could be a beautiful thin woman life would all fall into place, and wondered what it would be like to be that woman. We went around the room and although I don't talk about clothing stuff much except with my sponsor I said how for much of my life whatever I was I wished I could be something else. Then I said that like the writer I too have sometimes wondered what it would be like to be a beautiful woman, although it had more to do with resentment than anything else. Everyone laughed, which in that context is considered to be supportive of what the person says.

The meeting was mostly women. Some of them, especially the anorexics who are in recovery and have gained a little weight, are gorgeous. Later on one of the women made the comment that every single woman in that room had wondered what it would be like to be a beautiful woman. Again, lots of laughter.

It's of course tempting to say that no matter what we look like on the outside that we are beautiful on the inside. But the truth is that this is a 12 step meeting. At the time most of us came into the rooms we were probably pretty unattractive on the inside no matter what we looked like on the outside. Although with time we have gotten far more attractive on the inside.

But the thought really stayed with me. A whole roomful of women, agknowledging that at one time they all wondered, fantasized, about what it would be like to be a beautiful woman. The sort of thing we talk about here.

It's a nice group. I felt completely comfortable making the remark that I did.

I feel like there is something more I want to say about this. But I can't figure out what it is.

Absaroka

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:45 pm

I would venture to say that there are few really ugly humans on the inside. But they, like us, are unique no doubt only they hide their ugliness until it explodes in many and varied ways, like strapping bombs to their own children to kill innocent people or well, I digress.

I have never met a crossdresser that I would not want for a friend. Just look at the girls here on this forum. Most would do anything for any of her sisters. The phrase "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" can that not also be the inverse, "ugly is in the eye of the beholder." We dress, we look in the mirror - hello??

I have expressed my opinion of those unfortunate to be overweight and I am sure there are medical exceptions, but............. moving right along.

Absaroka, I am happy that you participate in what sounds like a nice group and know you will continue to be an asset to them as you are to us!!!

Love,

Virginia

April Rose · Post by **April Rose** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:01 pm

Wow!

Imagine that! There are probably millions of women, all over the world, imagining, just like us, what it would be like to be a beautiful woman!

How do we do this to ourselves? How do we get so far from the simple joy of being a human being?

Nikki Adams · Post by **Nikki Adams** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:31 pm

Absaroka, you are beautiful on the inside, because inside of you is the courage, honesty and humility it took for you to admit you have a problem and to go to a meeting the first time. You just keep up the good work and keep going to the meetings and take it one day at a time.

I am an adult child of an alcoholic and I know life will never, ever be easy for you, or those you love. But you know the journey is worth every step along the way. God bless you, sweetheart.

Nikki

Robyn Katie · Post by **Robyn Katie** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:43 am

Absaroka,

As one who has greatly enjoyed your wonderful posts, let me suggest that the grass on your side of the fence really is a lush, sweet green.

The problem for you, as for all of us, is learning (and constantly re-learning, because we all forget) that it really is so, and how to see it.

Good luck to you and every one of us in getting down in that grass and rolling in it. And sniffing it. And chewing on a piece.

(Oops, I think the country girl in me is showing.)

Love, Robyn Katie

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:00 pm

Hi Absaroka--

The other day at one of my 12 step meetings we read a chapter where the writer (a morbidly obese woman) talked about how she always thought that if she could be a beautiful thin woman life would all fall into place, and wondered what it would be like to be that woman.

I've known women who did transform themselves, by dieting, and their reactions to attention from men often didn't please them. Having been unattractive before, it scared them to get attention that they had never been prepared to handle. It also made them angry that this attention was coming mainly because the "form" they came in had changed. Even if the man was sincere, the women couldn't forget that they would not have attracted his attention at all with their former appearance.

I have written this before, but I'll repeat it here. I found it much easier not to judge women's body types after I started appearing as my own idea of a woman. For one thing, sometimes I got judged or ignored on my appearance as a woman. I learned about rejection in a way that I'd never experienced as a man. As a man, I got rejected for my actions, but seldom (if ever) for my appearance alone. It was very different to suddenly be judged as women are everyday. You can argue that it was only a role that I was playing, but none the less, it still hurts. I had a lot more empathy for the seemingly unattractive women out there, and how arbitrary that judgment is.

But on the positive side, when I got compliments on my appearance, it also seemed to take the pressure off my need to judge the women around me. I wasn't looking to them to meet all my needs for "femaleness"--I had a way of doing it for myself.

This does not mean that we no longer need our SOs, which is the negative view of this. It can mean that we don't have to put as much pressure on them to be some "ideal" of womanhood. Just as women in the 70s learned how to work on their own cars, for instance. They no longer had to pressure their husbands to do this chore. It was upsetting at first for men to lose their "special" function in the marriage, but in the long term, it could only help to balance out the gender roles.

Absaroka · Post by **Absaroka** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:05 pm

April yes that was it, the other thing I was trying to say.

Lots of good replies with a lot of truth to them all.

Nikki I've been to ACOA also among other "A"s- it was the beginning of my recovery. Your right about life getting better but never all better. Which is fine, it's so much better than it was.

Absaroka

Robyn Katie · Post by **Robyn Katie** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:39 am

I scarcely know what I'm trying to say here, but --

The above makes me think of something I read years back -- I don't know if it's true, exaggerated or what, but it stayed with me. Something to the effect that nearly all women are dissatisfied with the shape, looks, etc. of their breasts.

It conjures up a world of human beings who, far from being happy with themselves, can't even accept the way they are. And I, wanting to be a beautiful woman at least sometimes (what I really want is an M/F toggle switch), and also not to be overweight, am one more among the rest.

Almost always I'm proud and happy to have these aspirations, however impractical and unreachable. Ordinarily I don't consider time spent in pursuit of my own femininity or lightness to be wasted or futile.

On the other hand I have moments where I suddenly see this in outsider's perspective, and it makes me want to bang my head. As said above, what are we doing to ourselves?

Like you, Absaroka, I keep feeling there's something more about this that cries out to be said, and can't figure out what it is.

But it occurs to me that dissatisfaction, impossible urges and yearnings, etc. are all part of the human condition. So maybe what we're doing to ourselves is only a subset of what humans have been doing to themselves since caveman (and cavewoman) days? And could it have a fighting chance of being beneficial?

Love, Robyn Katie

Jennifer M · Post by **Jennifer M** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:38 pm

Being bi-gendered as I am ,I also have a lot of those moments that Robyn Katie has described.My feeling remains that they are caused from having both genders.The thoughts and emotions from both genders are always present.Sometimes a 50/50 mix but more often than not one becomes more prevailant than the other.In male mode this makes me ask myself "what I am doing'and I feel like getting rid of everything.I can only guess that my male side is like so many others and cant accept this,hard as I try.

When I am being Jennifer I never have this problem.I do worry about how I look.It doesnt match with how I feel on the inside.Many have said that I look good and that I am passable.I just cant see it for whatever reasons.I look into the mirror ,looking for Jennifer ,but only see a man in a skirt.I know I have to accept that I am who I am and cant change how I look.It goes along with what I have been reading.

Life cant be one large happy picnic,the trials we endure make us who we are.Also,nothing ever comes for free,this gift of ours has to have a price and it seems to be different for everyone.I continue to muddle thru the rough days and enjoy the good ones.What else can we do?

Thanks for the chance to ramble,sorry if I have been a little off topic.

April Rose · Post by **April Rose** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:08 pm

Robyn; A m/f toggle switch....

April Rose · Post by **April Rose** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 9:57 pm

Jennifer; quote]only see a man in a skirt.

I'm a man in a skirt. I'm not passable at all. I am transgendered. I have come to realize that I no longer want to not be transgendered. I still worry that this causes undue stress on my wife. But, she is an intelligent and accomplished woman. She won't knuckle under to any of my relatives, so I assume she won't knuckle under to me.

I know this doesn't sound like logical advice. But logical advice has never worked for me. Have you thought of trying dating as a feminine man?

Absaroka · Post by **Absaroka** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:23 pm

I tried dating as myself which was sometimes confusing as I didn't know who I was. Even after I figured it out for the most part it went badly but good things are worth waiting for and now I've been happily married for 22 years.

Absaroka

Robyn Katie · Post by **Robyn Katie** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:19 am

Absaroka,

Yes, I'm happily married for (can it really be?) going on 40 years. I am testimony to the truth that a person who is mixed up, easily intimidated, has very little self-confidence, is all over the place in gender, and doesn't know what s/he wants to do when s/he grows up, can find a True Love, be accepted by her, marry her, and still have her sweet romantic heart after all this while.

Truly fortune sometimes smiles, even on the undeserving.

Also, as regards gender, it's gladdening to know there potentially are wonderful SOs for the whole spectrum, not just a narrow slice.

Love, Robyn Katie

Absaroka · Post by **Absaroka** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:42 am

I was talkiing about this subject with a GG friend. She is also a sort of butch lesbian-I don;'t know if that is relevant but a couple of things she said made me think it was. Said that I have wondered what it would be like to be a woman and she said she thought that was very strange. So I asked her hasn't she wondered what it would be like to be a man and she said of course she has. I said well it's the same for me and that made sense to her. Then she went on about how nice it would be to be a man. No period, no gyno exams (at which point we digressed to prostate exams for a moment. And then she said "and no breasts" I was a bit surprised by this. She went on to talk about how having the breast cancer screening done is very uncomfortable and I of course have heard that from other women. She moved on to how much fun she thought it would be to have a penis with which I tactfully agreed that yes it is and then we went into the social roles of men and women which of course is a whole big subject. Talked about how as a boy in the late 60's I had to ask girls out and risk rejection while the girls had either the luxury or the curse of waiting to be asked. She commented that as a lesbian she of course has to contend with both roles. And so on.

It was a very pleasant discussion, making me think about how being okay with the response of "you're kind of wierd" can open the door to a lot of things. Because in a serious talk I need to allow her to say what she has to say also.

Absaroka

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:26 am

Thanks for relating that conversation, Absaroka. It did seem pleasant, once the initial sparring was over with. I'm surprised she said, "and no breasts." I know that women don't like the cancer screening, and that includes transwomen, too. But I haven't heard that before, from a woman. Maybe your friend has some transgender leanings; I've certainly heard FtMs in my support group talk about wanting no breasts.