Hi all,
Here's the link: Disco-Ball Dresses and Spandex
The comments are interesting, to say the least.
What do you all think of this?
Love,
CJ
A summer camp for transgendered kids
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CJ
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Carolynn
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I think it is great that there can be a place where gender variant kids can relax and just be themselves, and that they have the support of parents and others in most cases. The few transgender kids I know personally are mostly wonderfully creative and smart, as are the slightly older gay teens I have met, and I know that all them would love to be able to be at a camp such as described in the article.
It seems that the same party line that Zucker and his apologists follow was taken as truth. The article says the most of the "transgender" kids will be gay, which is what Zucker, Cohen-Kettinis, and Green say, and Blanchard of course. That is one of the excuses put forward for not treating kids with a strong gender preference with blockers or hormones as is championed by Spack and others, and the disagreement continues to plague parents that want the best for their kids.
The problem is that there have been quite a few feminine kids that find themselves in the Gay lifestlye in their teens, but the kicker is knowing if they are "settling" for a role that is semi socially acceptable and potentially temporary and if it will be long term or not. The same goes for the tg kids that are allowed to transition early (sans hormones other than blockers). What role will the blockers play on a kid if the individual is actually gay rather than TS?
Puberty messes with the minds of all teens, and it can create serious difficulties with things like perceived sexual orientation, etc. We just do not understand well enough, I think, the interaction of society, biology (in the hormonal effects sense), and sexuality. I always felt that if I had been left alone instead of getting male hormone injections to "fix me", I would have been a much happier girl. So that leads me to think that blockers might make self identity easier on TS folks, but might make adjustment more difficulty for kids who are just gay.
I do not know the answer, but I do know that my cousin knew he was gay at age 10-11. He used to look through the clothing catalogs at his grandmothers, and try to see glimpses of male appendages in the underwear photos and swim suits, and seeing a hot male body made him go "yum" to himself. His adjustment was complicated by having a grandfather who was very homophobic, so could never be open with anyone, even his mom, until after his grandfather's death. No, that is not entirely true. In college he had a "girlfriend" who was lesbian, and they had a relationship of convenience to mask one another. She was killed in the bombing of the plane over Lockerbie (sp?) Scotland by a Libyan terrorist.
By contrast, I knew I was a little girl at three. In my case, it was not burgeoning sexuality, it was self identity. Sexual preference still seems to me to be qualitatively different to gender identity.
But I think calling all the kids transgender may not be technically correct, if not really confusing? I also found it interesting that the writer of the piece made a point of saying all the parents were parts of some conservative groups (religious or otherwise and the word liberal was left out) who had tried to pursue more traditional psychological treatments before letting their kids be themselves. Curious.
Carolynn
It seems that the same party line that Zucker and his apologists follow was taken as truth. The article says the most of the "transgender" kids will be gay, which is what Zucker, Cohen-Kettinis, and Green say, and Blanchard of course. That is one of the excuses put forward for not treating kids with a strong gender preference with blockers or hormones as is championed by Spack and others, and the disagreement continues to plague parents that want the best for their kids.
The problem is that there have been quite a few feminine kids that find themselves in the Gay lifestlye in their teens, but the kicker is knowing if they are "settling" for a role that is semi socially acceptable and potentially temporary and if it will be long term or not. The same goes for the tg kids that are allowed to transition early (sans hormones other than blockers). What role will the blockers play on a kid if the individual is actually gay rather than TS?
Puberty messes with the minds of all teens, and it can create serious difficulties with things like perceived sexual orientation, etc. We just do not understand well enough, I think, the interaction of society, biology (in the hormonal effects sense), and sexuality. I always felt that if I had been left alone instead of getting male hormone injections to "fix me", I would have been a much happier girl. So that leads me to think that blockers might make self identity easier on TS folks, but might make adjustment more difficulty for kids who are just gay.
I do not know the answer, but I do know that my cousin knew he was gay at age 10-11. He used to look through the clothing catalogs at his grandmothers, and try to see glimpses of male appendages in the underwear photos and swim suits, and seeing a hot male body made him go "yum" to himself. His adjustment was complicated by having a grandfather who was very homophobic, so could never be open with anyone, even his mom, until after his grandfather's death. No, that is not entirely true. In college he had a "girlfriend" who was lesbian, and they had a relationship of convenience to mask one another. She was killed in the bombing of the plane over Lockerbie (sp?) Scotland by a Libyan terrorist.
By contrast, I knew I was a little girl at three. In my case, it was not burgeoning sexuality, it was self identity. Sexual preference still seems to me to be qualitatively different to gender identity.
But I think calling all the kids transgender may not be technically correct, if not really confusing? I also found it interesting that the writer of the piece made a point of saying all the parents were parts of some conservative groups (religious or otherwise and the word liberal was left out) who had tried to pursue more traditional psychological treatments before letting their kids be themselves. Curious.
Carolynn
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DonnaT
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Very nice article.
I noticed that the camp seems to only be for boys who are gay, trans or both. No XX (a generalization) girls.
As for the comments, some seem to be caught up in what they consider insulting language, such as girly-boy or he/she, and give no comment on the over-all gist of the story.
The author never used the term he/she. As for girly-boys, maybe the author would have been better off using femme boys instead, but he only did it once, and it wasn't in a derogatory manner.
As for the comment "if past experience is any indication, the majority of our girly-boys will one day consider themselves straightforwardly gay," it was apparently based on what the author knows/experienced, not based on Zucker et al.'s teachings. But there is no way of knowing whether they will go on and continue to dress in their later years, so only know what they know up to a certain point in these kids lives, unless they are keeping some sort of records to suggest otherwise.
I've a feeling that quite a number of boys have dressed in something girly in their younger years, and not turned out to be gay or trans, and not gone on to continue CDing later in life. A number of the gay boys will probably go on to be drag queens, yet not consider themselves to be trans.
Who knows? Not really the point of the article really. The article was more about family acceptance and a place these kids could go to be themselves, and learn they aren't alone.
I noticed that the camp seems to only be for boys who are gay, trans or both. No XX (a generalization) girls.
As for the comments, some seem to be caught up in what they consider insulting language, such as girly-boy or he/she, and give no comment on the over-all gist of the story.
The author never used the term he/she. As for girly-boys, maybe the author would have been better off using femme boys instead, but he only did it once, and it wasn't in a derogatory manner.
As for the comment "if past experience is any indication, the majority of our girly-boys will one day consider themselves straightforwardly gay," it was apparently based on what the author knows/experienced, not based on Zucker et al.'s teachings. But there is no way of knowing whether they will go on and continue to dress in their later years, so only know what they know up to a certain point in these kids lives, unless they are keeping some sort of records to suggest otherwise.
I've a feeling that quite a number of boys have dressed in something girly in their younger years, and not turned out to be gay or trans, and not gone on to continue CDing later in life. A number of the gay boys will probably go on to be drag queens, yet not consider themselves to be trans.
Who knows? Not really the point of the article really. The article was more about family acceptance and a place these kids could go to be themselves, and learn they aren't alone.
DonnaT
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