Genderqueer...so confusing.

[Dolores(GG)]

I was just contemplating today how my perception of gender has affected my life. I was reading something about transgendered individuals and it included genderqueer (although I went on to read other sources and it seems like that is wrong in general consensus.) Still, it made me think about myself and my label. I don't go around talking to people about it. I mentioned it to a close friend at work and he was surprised that after 5 years I had never mentioned it, even though the idea itself didn't.

Ever since I was young, I have had a hard time associating with other women. I have been told "I think like a man" by women. I perceive myself in my skin like a man most of the time, or sometimes I don't think of it at all. I feel most girly when I am feeling shy and nervous, or energetic, and being around other women brings out my male persona most of all. It's very fluid and situational. I told my bf once, I often perceive myself as male even when I am with him. To myself, I am a gay male in a womans body and when I dress up to go out, it's as if I am cross dressing as female.

Point is, does that make me transgendered? I don't have the urge to crossdress myself too often even though I think about having a male body often (but never intend to do anything about it) and do like being androgynous. If people were to look at me, they would probably never realize it, but i think it's there with me all the time and colors my actions and thoughts. Is this something, or is this how everyone feels all the time?

[Carolynn]

Wow, difficult question. Most people who are CDers, it's about the clothing of the other gender, and portraying that other gender. Sounds kinda like you slip pretty easily into a male role in some social situations, and if you indeed think you feel like a "gay male" (like guys) and you are female, then you are likely technically heterosexual, or you may possibly be a bit transsexual. If you have had feelings that you would like to change gender, then you might get concerned enough to investigate.

However, remember that basically we live on a multi-scalar continuum that goes from ultra femme to ultra masculine. We all fall somewhere along that continuum, in terms of gender feelings, sexual orientation and social role. So , maybe you fall on the more masculine of the femme end of the continuum, or maybe you are kinda androgenous in your self identity. If you are concerned, a good gender therapist could likely help you get a good idea.

There are also online tests, some slightly better than others but most kinda weak but interesting, that offer you some perspective, perhaps. If you go see a therapist, said person would likely give you a personality test, and possibly other tests that might measure your responses on a masculine/feminine scale, but there are no tests that are really definitive. Who you are is something you understand or come to understand as you live your life.

Do not worry overmuch how other women aperceive you, as all they are saying is that compared to themselves and your attitudes, you are kinda butch. But so long as your orientation is toward males, and you are female, you should be perceived as heterosexual by those around you. I grew up with several women like you, who married, raised families and are now happy grandmothers.

[DonnaT]

Genderqueer, IIRC, refers to someone who projects an outward androgynous image, or think of themselves as being both man and woman, or neither. I reckon there are several other definitions, making it hard to pin down. And one may or may not consider themselves to be transgender.

Labels, who needs them?

[Elizabeth]

Hi Dolores,

I have met others who feel just like you. Born female, but feel like a gay man and wanting a relationship with a gay man. Not unlike me being female and wanting a relationship with another female.

So in reverse it happens all the time, that is being born male, feeling like a female and wanting a same sex relationship with another female. Your feelings are not uncommon at all, at least not in the transgendered world.

No one can help how they feel and just because we are all different does not mean there is something wrong. You are what you are, go with it.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Karren Hutton]

I agree... Labels... Gender outside, gender inside and sexual preference are 3 totally independent categories, imho... Like a slot machine.. Pull the handle and 99% of the time the house wins and you come up MMF. Or FFM.... Its the other 1% of the time you hit the jackpot! Lol.

[Dolores(GG)]

Carolynn, I am pansexual really. I am usually attracted to men though as a male (which is I guess why I said I feel like a gay male), as well as women as a male. I am fine with being a little butch.

Donna, I'm bad, I'm always looking at the labels. If there's one thing I admire about my bf is his utter disinterest in them. It's not the label so much, it's just seeking some sort of perspective of who I am. I don't know anyone else who feels like me. I think I am the only woman who gets deeply embarrased walking into Victorias Secret. I feel so awkward, like I don't belong there. Like I shouldn't touch anything. I forget that I am a girl and I am suppose to be shopping for myself. If I think I am shopping for my bf I immedietly relax but the moment I think it's for me I freeze up again. I'm trying to understand these deep seated reflexes.

Thanks Elizabeth. You make me feel a little normal.

Karen, I hope the slots are hot this time of year.

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

i don't think you should worry about terms like genderqueer there are far too many terms out there. If you are ok being female and don't want to change then you are female, a girl, a woman.

Just because other people or social perceptions force this uber feminine, girly image of women down your throat as what is sexy and expected doesn't mean that has anything to do with being female. You don't have to be barbie to have a vagina. And if that image is offputting to you then feeling more male due to it is totally likely.
Thats how i feel. Female, ok with it, not thrilled just neutral, wouldn't have a sex change. I like crossdressing to look mre butch and acting more butch around my friends especially women and in private with my partner being more fem. I like fantasising about being a man but I'd never have a sex change i think life might have been easier or fun if i was a man but then i wouldn't be with my partner so....
I think you are fine and a normal probably very appealing woman (i love androgynous women) its the barbies that are crazy LOL
also get to know more women. I don't relate to girls at all. they are just objects to be perved on and we are not on the same wavelength at all but then lately i've met a couple more similar to me and sometimes even ones who seem pretty fem can have a not so fem stereotypical personality and they just need getting to know (most are crap though LOL)

[Lydia]

I find "genderqueer" somewhat annoying and pejorative - no good reason. How about "gender confused"?

Hugs,

Lydia

[Absaroka]

Hi Delores,

I suspect that many people don't have the same thoughts as you, but that's just them......we are all a tad odd in some way.

As for labels, the rebel in me prefers genderf--- to genderqueer. But that's just me.

As for whether or not these labels apply to you, you get to decide. Similar to a group I belong to which states in their preamble "you are a member when you say you are".

Nice topic and thanks for starting it. As usual I can't really improve on Carolynns reply but wanted to add my 2 cents of support.

Zari

[Dolores(GG)]

Dante, I can appreciate what your saying about to an extent being comfortable with just the range of natural femininity (or moreso the lack thereof) any given woman is going to display. I have considered myself genderqueer for a long time, what I was questioning was if this stuck me in the transgendered catergory. I am quite comfortable with that label to describe me, because when you say I am a woman, a girl, your talking about what I was born with. I don't think being male would be "fun" or "easier", it's just how I feel when I interact with woman, when I walk down the street, when I have sex. I guess my whole post was me trying to figure out where that comes from. And I think you guys remind me that it's just one of those things that is, and that's ok.

Lydia, I dunno, I think changing "genderqueer" which states directly what I am- to "gender confused" is pejorative in itself. I'm not confused in what I am, just want to understand more about what it means, just like I'm sure some of the ladies on this forum seek to understand their femme sides.

[Dolores(GG)]

Absaroka,

I am torn as to whether I want others having my thoughts or not?

I like the term genderf*** as well, I'll throw it out here and there once in a while. It's a fun aesthetic, as well. I guess your right, in the end of the day I only know how I feel and whether it fits me. But what I was more curious about bringing up, and maybe I didn't do a great job of making it clear: was that feeling that one has strong instincts or thoughts that don't match their sex. Obviously CD'ers could relate.

It's a cumbersome topic I feel. I'm not very elegant at expressing I think what I want and feel towards this.

[DanteCarrie (FTM)]

yeah i must say i find genderqueer a term a sigh at too but thats only cas I'm so sick of all that overaccurate pc nonsense floating around. i highly doubt the world it gonna take me more seriously by adding more and more overprecise terms to myself. technically I'm probs genderqueer as i feel like a man sometimes but i wouldn't use the term.
I'm not confused.
I'm not trans I'm not transistioning anywhere so that label can get stuffed.
I like being female but i like to go butch at times and feel like a boy.
so label label.....erm how about cute? LOL how about androgynous? sexy? dykish? genderbender? angel? ooo i like that one. fun loving? mischevious? maybe i just like confusing people.
too busy just doing it and living it to lecture people about what to call me let them know me then miserably fail as they get more and more confused trying to think of a world for my all round general eccentricities.
thats what they used to say ECCENTRIC. crazy and weird and not the norm but in a good way. works for goths, gays, hippies, transexuals, genderbenders, nudists and those people that talk to walls. a generally fantabulous phrase

[April Rose]

I don't fit in either gender 100% completely, but I'm not the least bit confused. What I like about all the PC Nonsense is that it causes trouble and confusion for all the mainstream non thinkers who would like some simplistic hook to catagorize who we are rather than engage us. It may seem overblown or silly,but it's another tool in the box.

[Absaroka]

Dolores I agree it is a cumbersome topic. Hard to talk about just feeling different but not sure how different we are, let alone doing it in an area so loaded with cultural baggage.

I figured out I was different a long time ago in certain other respects which don't have much to do with CDing. I guess that makes it a bit easier to accept that I am a bit different in terms of CDing as well. For me I just think of myself as a man with a somewhat stronger than usual feminine streak. Maybe you could consider yourself the same, a woman with a strong masculine streak. I think there were a couple of other things you described that are considered unusual, so you could throw them in there also.

Once more, a great thread.

Zari