Terminology

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:41 am

I know in the States, where this group hails from, the preferred term for a man who dresses up as woman is "crossdresser". Hence, surprise, surprise, the name of the forum. However, in the UK, where I come from, the usual term is "transvestite". I say usual because I'm not sure I prefer it. On the other hand, I'm not that keen on "crossdresser" either.

For a lot of people "transvestite" has connoations somehow seedy and immoral - or, at any rate, that's what I pick up. "Crossdresser" seems to get rid of those implications, but at the cost, for me, of rendering the term kind of deracinated. It sounds like something out of a taxonomy, not descriptive of something vitally important to people.

Actually, "crossdresser" is just an anglicization of the original (?) term - Transvestite being latin for crossdresser. But, then, maybe, saying something in latin has connotations of "foreign" - hence alien, weird, etc. Or perhaps it's just that the latin brings up thoughts of corrupt Romans and weird, depraved stuff - emperors making Consuls of their horses etc.

At any rate, the term (is it a term?) I like is "tranny". This is a diminutive of transvestite (in the UK) and accepts that, if what we do is probably a bit weird, it's still quite a good thing - something to feel affectionate about, in fact - kind of in the tradition of the British eccentric, something to be valued. I guess it's related to "tranny", the diminutive of "transistor radio" (probably a bit outdated). But, then, I guess maybe you could say crossdressers are like trans-sisters.

SilverLady(SO) · Post by **SilverLady(SO)** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:14 am

Hi, Anthony -

While the original Latin term is transvestite and it means, literaly, crossdresser, I think crossdresser sounds friendlier and less derogatory; I hate to hear 'transvestite' (or tranny) being used, or even to see them in print.

I prefer the terms 'crossdresser' (CD) or 'transgendered' (TG) which, IMHO, are more accurate, polite, and definitely friendlier sounding.

Just my $0.02 worth!

- SL

Michelle M · Post by **Michelle M** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:22 am

I think the distinction, at least to myself, is that a transvestite is primarily concerned with the sexual pleasure of women's clothing (usually centered around one type of garment, i.e. shoes, lingerie, stockings) whereas a crossdresser is more interested in creating the whole picture of a woman (and usually the desire to be able to pass).

Put it another way, a transvestite dresses for sexual gratification and a crossdresser dresses for a non-sexual psychological need. Also, with anything in the transgender world, I think that people can be somewhere in between the two or be both.

I'm sure people will disagree with me, but that's my two cents.

Anita · Post by **Anita** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 10:32 am

Hi Anthony--
I prefer "crossdresser," while seeing that it has its limits, too. It implies (to me) that it's just about wearing the clothes. If I look at it that way, it seems like a sterile term.

It also doesn't describe the out-in-public CD very well; hence, we have a forum named "Who am I?," since there's no term that seems to cover that aspect of CDing. "Transgenderist" is not a viable candidate, for me.

Carol Ann · Post by **Carol Ann** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:27 pm

, if people ask me I say I am just a man who enjoys dressing up in women cloths. In short a crossdresser

Susan · Post by **Susan** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:49 pm

I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

I don't care what term is used to describe our gift. You chose

Carolynn · Post by **Carolynn** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:19 pm

I think transvestite and tranny are demeaning, as they have been coopted by pornography, along with chicks with dicks, she-males, and he-shes. Generally, those who concentrate on just one or a few pieces of clothing for the purposes of aiding their masturbatory fantasys are considered fetishists, just as those who like shoes and feet, and those who prefer to have worn undies.

Drag queens are often equated with the term tranny by people who want to seem to be "in the know" or subculturally sophisticated, but are actually men, often gay, who are in drag for the purposes of entertainment. Some also do drag for prostitution (also a form of entertainment I guess, so I also think describing CD as a drag queen when they are dressed is demeaning as well, and suggests illicit purposes. Gay men and women will often use the terms "tranny and drag queen" when referring to heterosexual CDers. But then many people see others through their own perceptual screens.

Crossdresser, CDer, or transgender seems more appropriate to me in tems of connotations in our subculture. As far a transgenderist, that is a term that was made up to denote non-op transsexuals, or extreme crossdressers living in role 24/7/365.

There are definite differences between the cultures of England and the US in the use of English and slang, and attitudes toward different aspects of life.

Carolynn

Davita · Post by **Davita** » Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:02 pm

If one goggles "tran" or "trans" I think almost all sites that come up are "tranny" porn sites. Soooooo, "tranny" ain't what I would like to be thought of.

maybe it's the question... I dunno. I'm a bad googler

The thing with language is connotations vary by country. Many an international company has run into problems with picking a product name that seems all well and good in one country and then insults or is so laughable in another. Trans, CD, Transvestite, etc. are terms with different connotations in different countries and I'm hearing you girls. We all want a term that is correct and not demeaning. We have them -- we just have to be aware of which one is the right one for the country we are in or talking to. We also have to accept that the right word "over there" just may not be the right one "over here" but the person(s) we are talking with is/are trying to be correct.

Post by **DonnaT** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:02 am

For many, even in the UK, calling a transvestite a tranny is like using the term faggot instead of gay.

I haven't looked in a Webster's paper dictionary in quite a while, but back in the 70's and earlier, the definition of a transvestite included "usually associated with homosexuality."

This caused a major problem between me and my wife. At first she was fine with my dressing, but when she asked my why I liked it, I told her I was a transvestite (the term crossdresser wasn't in use then), she looked the term up and immediately did a 180 turn in her acceptance.

Michelle Miller · Post by **Michelle Miller** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:15 pm

I prefer the term X-Clothed.

Because I'm all X-treme like that, you know.

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:24 pm

A while ago Donna said something along the lines of "if you can have physically intersex people, why can't you have mentally intersex people?" - and that definitely struck a chord with me. I mean my major problem when it comes to self-acceptance is that, really, I'm just not the characteristic male. On the other hand, I'm well short (quite apart from the physical aspects) of being quintessentially feminine.

I think the dressing up is, in large part, some sort of attempt to deal with that reality of being somewhere in between. Like giving a face and shape to that woman inside so I can locate "her" in my mental landscape. So it's not at root about the dressing up, rather the mental stuff behind it. So then it wouldn't be about the "vestments" or clothes, at root - so I'd want a word without a reference to the clothes to describe what the thing is really about for me.

If you talk about the mental aspects you're talking about gender rather than sex (which would be about the physical side). So my description of myself would be a male with substantial inter-gender aspects which are expressed in the dressing up. I'm not transgender - because I read trans as about crossing over, rather I'm intergender - somewhere in between.

The embarassment comes because I'm not really a man and not really a woman inside - But there is a coherence to my personality once I get over beating myself over the head for not being "man enough". Anyway, I think intergender pretty much describes me - with the dressing up coming out of that.

Carolynn · Post by **Carolynn** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:39 pm

Yes Anthony. If you go back over the topics where I have tried to explain recent research about the development of the brain before the development of the physical aspect of a fetus, and the genetic evidence that people who are considered transgendered by geneiticists all have extra long CAG repeating base pairs in one section of mother's genes that get expressed, then you do have some support from science and medicine for your conclusion about yourself.

Most Australian researchers have been saying what you are saying, in part, when testifying in legal cases covering trans folk, suggesting that all gender variant are what amounts to a kind of intersex to some degree. because the basis appears to be genetic and developmental as a result.

Sadly, most people researching the topic in other countries are affected by the psychiatrists, and are still searching for other support for the theories the APA and the sociologists are pushing, that it is either a disorder of a mental type, or it is the result of improper socialization. Maybe they will get around to reading something new, eventually.

Kimberly Kael · Post by **Kimberly Kael** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:45 pm

Terminology is always a tricky thing because no word ever means exactly the same thing to any two people. For a controversial subject that invariably means that it has a negative connotation to some, and that negativity tends to spill over into common use.

I suspect that at least part of the reason transvestite has negative overtones in the US is because of its history as a diagnosis that was described as having a sexual component and was therefore seen as a form of sexual deviance. American society has historically been quick to condemn anything sexual outside the mainstream.

All of this plays into the reasons why I describe myself as transgender instead of transsexual. My sexuality is not related to any way to my gender identity, so I prefer to describe them independently.

Anthony Simon · Post by **Anthony Simon** » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:09 pm

Neither of my parents fit at all well into the specific gender roles expected (if you get past the surface that is). So it does look, Carolynn, like there could well be some sort of genetic basis for my setup.

Kittie · Post by **Kittie** » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:55 am

I completely disagree. It is Cross-Dresser!

Anthony Simon wrote:I know in the States, where this group hails from, the preferred term for a man who dresses up as woman is "crossdresser". Hence, surprise, surprise, the name of the forum. However, in the UK, where I come from, the usual term is "transvestite". I say usual because I'm not sure I prefer it. On the other hand, I'm not that keen on "crossdresser" either.

For a lot of people "transvestite" has connoations somehow seedy and immoral - or, at any rate, that's what I pick up. "Crossdresser" seems to get rid of those implications, but at the cost, for me, of rendering the term kind of deracinated. It sounds like something out of a taxonomy, not descriptive of something vitally important to people.

Actually, "crossdresser" is just an anglicization of the original (?) term - Transvestite being latin for crossdresser. But, then, maybe, saying something in latin has connotations of "foreign" - hence alien, weird, etc. Or perhaps it's just that the latin brings up thoughts of corrupt Romans and weird, depraved stuff - emperors making Consuls of their horses etc.

At any rate, the term (is it a term?) I like is "tranny". This is a diminutive of transvestite (in the UK) and accepts that, if what we do is probably a bit weird, it's still quite a good thing - something to feel affectionate about, in fact - kind of in the tradition of the British eccentric, something to be valued. I guess it's related to "tranny", the diminutive of "transistor radio" (probably a bit outdated). But, then, I guess maybe you could say crossdressers are like trans-sisters.

Crossdressers-Haven.com

Terminology

Terminology

Re: Terminology