Crossdressers-Haven.com

In the "Here's Karin" thread, Ms K wrote something which I wanted to reply to in a way which seemed to be drifting off topic. So here's a new topic...

Karin wrote:But then i also think.. what exactly is there to learn? Isnt it sexist to say certain tastes belong to the female gender alone? Ive always known girls who are more loutish than the lads, and vice versa. Ive worked with women who knew more curse words than i ever will etc.. Im of the opinion that personality and tastes arent wholey based on gender. going a bit further than that, i would say certain 'traits' are definately caused by gender and the associated chemical and hormone effects that come with testosterone and estrogen?

Well, for me, the real issue to do with sexism for people like us is the one to do with sexual stereotypes. Like there's an accusation (That I've mentioned on here before) that all CDs do is try to emulate some collection of female stereotypes - so that you get what looks like a woman on the surface, but underneath it's a man.

I'm aware of striking stereotypical feminine poses unconsciously just as soon as I get get dressed up. It takes me over (a very juggernaut feeling). But, it also kind of annoys me, all feeling a bit overdone. I'm just so delighted when I feel something deeper and more subtle going on - like I'm getting taken over by a real woman.

But to me, that echoes what goes on with children (on the basis of no kids of my own, it must be said). Like one part of development in children revolves around copying others. Kind of mixing and matching bits of other peoples' personalities, trying them on for size, discarding them, seeing how they fit in with what the child's got to hand etc...

I can't really match up the time scales, but, in this iteration of dressing up, it's taken me maybe three years before I started to get a sense of a real woman appearing. I still feel she's kind of weak to take out in the world and interact with others, but there is a develoment.

Quote; But to me, that echoes what goes on with children (on the basis of no kids of my own, it must be said). Like one part of development in children revolves around copying others. Kind of mixing and matching bits of other peoples' personalities, trying them on for size, discarding them, seeing how they fit in with what the child's got to hand etc...

I am not so sure that we all still don't copy others in one form or another. As they say, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery". The word "mentor" has gained much useage in my end of the world in the last couple of years. The idea being that a mentor helps us to develop our character more completely. So, how much copying would we do, if we see good character traits within the mentor? Then again, are we showing flattery towards women when we imitate them???

Anthony, it comes back to needing to send out strong female "cues," if we're going to try to present a female image. Women who are on hormones and who live 24/7 can (and do) begin to dress more casually, for instance. But we've got to exaggerate some, to get the point across. In trying to present a credible woman, it's hard to avoid stereotypes if I'm not living it fulltime. I think a lot of my mannerisms were copied from my mother and my sisters, and they come right to the surface as soon as I have on the appropriate clothing and am putting out the right appearance. Otherwise, I learned how to suppress that way of behaving at an early age. It was really amazing to have an outlet for those mannerisms, after 40-some years of denying them and stuffing them down.

huummmm.... not sure the title is quite right for the way the discussion is going. This is sounding like a variation of nature versus nurture. Or "did you go through 'this' set of stages and phases as you started and continued to dress?"

The quickie nature versus nurture response... Nature gives us a predisposition and circumstances gives us a chance to develop. Now that stages and phases thing... Because we have a similar predispositions, it's likely takes similar circumstances for us to develop. Do we tend to develop with the same stages and phases? I bet for the most part we do, but the variations occur with how we progress and "end up" by our full complexity as human beings and the whole environment that we each interact with. So a fair number of us started our dressing having a sexual nature to it then as time and circumstance goes, some of us develop a fetish while others of us begin to realize how nice it would be to transition and complete our true natures.

As for Anita saying we need to exaggerate to better present our female image? ummmm not me, but I do have a bit of the drag queen in me and that means I have a fun confident streak that has always did some craziness in public. This craziness was never related to being fem; it was just being crazy in public. Do I exaggerate when I am fem to better prove my femininity? No; I tend to be me -- just me -- a tall fat confident woman who enjoys being with friends.

Do some of us exaggerate? Yes... should we? Probably not. Do we have more to prove as we try to pass? Honestly? No. Women come in all shapes and sizes and walk sexy and like truck drivers... Hey, so do we. Women wear just about anything. -- Gosh forbid, I get sent pictures of some of the horrors out there that are called woman. Do we want to exaggerate those women? I don't think we could.

A friend of mine once noted ''if you keep sticking your butt out like a girl some gay guy is just going to pounce out of the brush onto you at some point.''

The weirdest part is that I never actually noticed I did that. Hell, in my honest opinion I had horrible posture...

Maybe straying a little off what Anthony was originally thinking of, I have recently started following the blog of the excellent Hanna http://hannahgotta.wordpress.com/author/hannahgotta/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; the cartoonist with Frock magazine. One of her cartoons commented on her development as a cross dresser, it so closely matched my own that I blogged about it here http://paula-paulasplace.blogspot.co.uk ... llels.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; from the comments I have received (published and unpublished) it seems quite a common progression, and one that reflects the starting out as a sexual thing and progressing into more comfortably being a woman.