Who's really passing?

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Ran across a striking re-thinking of the "passing" issue by Lacey Leigh, author of "The Successful Crossdresser." Lacey points out that despite what we'd like to think, few of us will be mistaken for GGs. If we're not read, it's more that people either don't notice or don't care. Consequently:

I measure my success as a crossdresser by the number of people I encounter who (if they bother to notice at all) recognize me as a man in a dress but regard me with the same degree of indifference they award any other stranger. If they treat me the same as everyone else, they pass.

Seems like the right attitude to me.

[Jeannie]

If you look at most women out there many older an(and younger) ones look quite manly.Most really don't know how to dress or apply make up at all and ladies, most of us GG's have better legs. If you ever are feeling down about your apperance just take a stroll through a WalMart on a saturday afternoon and honies,you will walk out feeling like Sophia Loren! Hugs.

Love Jeannie.

[Virginia]

Jeannie, Right on girlfriend!!!!
and Darla - as for me, hell I don't notice or care either! so walk on ladies!! To reqeuote one of our sisters "Its fabulous being a woman!"
Virginia

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Actually my main point was about how Lacey reverses the equation. It's really about others "passing" the test of tolerance than us having "pass" as GGs.

[Virginia]

Darla, Hope you are feeling better following your surgery!! I think about you often. As for tests - I don't care if they pass or fail! There is an old saying, I don't take s...; I don't give s...; I just ain't in the s... business. I am the absolute last person that someone who had a problem with me, would want to confront. Fortunately or unfortunately just beneath Virginia's demur surface is something that would defend her in ways that .. well you get the idea. So what others may think or say, and I was actually called a "slut" by a GG once! Its a long story, but I was so shocked initially, I let her get away with it and some of the SO's here on the forum really took me to the wood shed for not defending my womanhood, if you will!
No I don't grade how others view Virginia. If they have a problems its their's so let them deal with it! Me and Cindi Lauper: "Girls Just Wanta Have Fun!"
Love ya and take care of yourself, girl!
Virginia

[Loretta Ann]

Hi all,

I am in agreement with Darla, and Lacey on this one.

I am reminded of a saying here, that I have heard by more than one small man. Who was a good fighter.
"The bigger they are the harder they fall." Even some women have discovered that truth. There are as many different ways of confronting as there are defenses against it.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Virgina, thanks for asking. I'm pretty much off the pain killers now, so I'm starting to think straight again. Unfortunately, I'll be in the knee brace for another three months.

As far as others passing the tolerence test, I assume that's just a bit of hyperbole on Lacey's part. OTOH, we're often so terrified about what others will think of us, it's a useful thought experiment to reverse the situation and get out of the "I'm at the mercy of others" mentality.

[Loretta Ann]

As far as others passing the tolerence test, I assume that's just a bit of hyperbole on Lacey's part. OTOH, we're often so terrified about what others will think of us, it's a useful thought experiment to reverse the situation and get out of the "I'm at the mercy of others" mentality.

Hi,
I identify with that; it is definitely not an exaggeration for me. As long as one judges others like that they in fact judge themselves. It is that precise intolerance that prevents them from being where I am, or having any part to do with what I am about.

[Charlene Marie]

I loved the crack about Wall Mart. My wife and I went there once and she
acted like she was afraid to touch anything. And the women! My God!
Just throw on a pair of sweat pants . thong rubber sandles and a big shirt and they are ready to shop. When I go to the mall, I look better put togeather than half the women there. But it puts me at a disatvantage if I
want to pass.

I live in San Diego, and I hate to say it, but there only a few communities
and malls where women dress properly.

[Absaroka]

My aren't we judgemental today.

Andrea

[KimberlyS]

Darla, but what if we do not want to "Pass". Personally I would just rather be me, a feminine guy wearing some feminine clothes.

But enought of me, I do so agree with you Darla, Lacey and Jeannie.

Being out and "Passing" is mostly attitude and personal acceptance. If you can not accept yourself how can you expect others to accept you. And if you go out with the attitude that you are just another person out there shopping or going out to eat, or doing what ever you are doing, most people will accept you for who you are. They may think you are a bit strange, but I will bet all of us in the world have something strange about us according to others.

Jeannie I so agree with you on "If you look at most women out there many older an(and younger) ones look quite manly.Most really don't know how to dress or apply make up at all and ladies, most of us GG's have better legs. If you ever are feeling down about your apperance just take a stroll through a WalMart on a saturday afternoon and honies,you will walk out feeling like Sophia Loren! Hugs."

IMHO too many CDers try to pass for the perfect woman instead of the average woman or who they really are. If you are not a TS you are just a guy in a dress IMHO. Some are more feminine than others.

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Darla, but what if we do not want to "Pass". Personally I would just rather be me, a feminine guy wearing some feminine clothes.

Fair enough. My point was really it was a useful bit of mental jujitsu to get pass the fears that keep many of us from going out when we want to.

IMHO too many CDers try to pass for the perfect woman instead of the average woman or who they really are. If you are not a TS you are just a guy in a dress IMHO. Some are more feminine than others.

Agreed. Too many of us let the perfect be enemy of the good. Which was the other main point -- the key thing is that we should be expected to treated like anyone else, even if we are seen as a guy in a dress. So act like you deserve respect, in my experience, you usually get it.

[KimberlyS]

Darla, you wrote

"Fair enough. My point was really it was a useful bit of mental jujitsu to get pass the fears that keep many of us from going out when we want to.".

I completely understood that and I guess my personal statement of just wanting to be a feminine guy confussed the issue. Sorry.

Darla wrote also " the key thing is that we should be expected to treated like anyone else, even if we are seen as a guy in a dress. So act like you deserve respect, in my experience, you usually get it".

Darla I so agree with you and this has been my experience also.

[Linda S]

Ran across a striking re-thinking of the "passing" issue by Lacey Leigh, author of "The Successful Crossdresser." Lacey points out that despite what we'd like to think, few of us will be mistaken for GGs. If we're not read, it's more that people either don't notice or don't care. Consequently:

I measure my success as a crossdresser by the number of people I encounter who (if they bother to notice at all) recognize me as a man in a dress but regard me with the same degree of indifference they award any other stranger. If they treat me the same as everyone else, they pass.

Seems like the right attitude to me.

I'm sure I'll be in the minority here, but for me, crossdressing is all about passing. If I'm recognized as a man, I have failed - plain and simple.

It seems that the tide of opinion has turned against those of us who simply enjoy being seen as women. I was a member of Lacey's e-mail list for a while, but left because of the relentless, condescending "if you try to pass, you're not enlightened" attitude and the idea that we're doing something wrong by "fooling" people into believing we're really women.

Linda

[Marlena Dahlstrom]

Well I agree that I don't particularly care for Lacey's insistence that there's a One True Way way to crossdress.

Do I enjoy being seen as a woman? Yes. Would I prefer to pass? Yes. Do I think passing is deceptive? Not really. (Depends on the specific circumstances.)

But I'm one of those not blessed with a physique that's particularly feminine. I'm a bit too tall, a bit too broad shouldered. So while I can blend in a crowd, I've got no illusions about being mistaken for woman all (or even most) of the time in up-close interaction. Maybe that's why I don't see it as "failure" and rather something that's just gonna happen at times despite my best efforts.

As I said my last post, what struck was that it was a useful bit of mental jujitsu to get past the fears that keep some folks from going out the door. Just because I disagree with a lot of what Lacey says, doesn't mean she doesn't make some useful points at times.