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Hi all,

There has been recent talk here of being completely open to others.

That has led me to ask the question Is there any value to having an interior life?

Has anyone ever met anyone who is completely open?

Is such a thing even possible?

And last question is: Why would another need to know everything there is know about another person?

Anyone?

Hi Loretta,

What a great couple of questions. First, I do not think anyone can be 100% open. There are things about ourselves that we are unsure about or deeply ashamed or embarrassed about that prevent us from sharing it, even though others may not view it as being all that bad.

I think our interior life, as you call it, (which I presume means the voice we hear in our heads) is necessary for us to sort out our own truths. And because we all have our own truths, it is unnecessary for us to share all of it, as we know them to be values we may only hold for ourselves.

As for the last question, I do not beleive that others seek to know us. At least not in the sense of really wanting to gain understanding into who we are. That is why we have to pay people to listen to us and try to understand us. I believe it is more that we seek to have others understand us.

In my search for my own truth I must tell what that truth is, at least to the extent that I can feel comfortable. When others repeat or comment on what I have said, it either validates it, or disqualifies it, depending on how much I value the opinion of the person commenting. Because this is entirely subjective, I can always decide what my truth will be.

In other words, the need for me, for instance, to be as open as I can be about my life, is so I can be validated in my beleifs. I beleive in the end, this is the real goal of people like myself who come to places like this.

Here again, when people who I have respect for thier opinions, fail to validate me, it forces me to re-evaluate my beleifs. In this way I am able to improve and hence later re-seek validation.

We all have the basic need to be validated in our own beleifs. I beleive that is what this is all about.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth,

You wrote: What a great couple of questions. First, I do not think anyone can be 100% open. There are things about ourselves that we are unsure about or deeply ashamed or embarrassed about that prevent us from sharing it, even though others may not view it as being all that bad.

I agree with you. In fact certain things are just no one else's business.

You also wrote:I think our interior life, as you call it, (which I presume means the voice we hear in our heads) is necessary for us to sort out our own truths. And because we all have our own truths, it is unnecessary for us to share all of it, as we know them to be values we may only hold for ourselves.

Yes I am referring to the voice we here in our heads, but it also includes our emotions. I have seen it also referred to as being our soul. When things are not reasonably good in our interior life, we are usually headed the wrong way, or already in some kind of trouble.

You also wrote:As for the last question, I do not believe that others seek to know us. At least not in the sense of really wanting to gain understanding into who we are. That is why we have to pay people to listen to us and try to understand us. I believe it is more that we seek to have others understand us

I spent some time (during my journey) seeking to know as much as I could about those who were my friends. And I dug as hard as I could to find out all that I could about them. That was the result of an insecurity on my part. If I found out something that was not what I thought should be as it should, That person did not get very close to me.

I also found that there were many who kept their distance from me because they knew me to be like that. They did not want me to know everything about them.

You also wrote:In my search for my own truth I must tell what that truth is, at least to the extent that I can feel comfortable. When others repeat or comment on what I have said, it either validates it, or disqualifies it, depending on how much I value the opinion of the person commenting. Because this is entirely subjective, I can always decide what my truth will be.

I understand that; as I also went through that phase. And it is an important phase to go through. It also still happens to some extent with me, and probably will to some extent for most of my life. As we discover new truths they will need to be validated.

But one will begin to move beyond that (some what) once one has established a strong enough interior life to support an active life that brings them success in what it is that gives them fulfillment. And as one does that they become more secure = more mature.

I joined another forum a few months ago and it did not take long to confirm my suspicion that there was far to much negative energy there for my liking. I was secure enough within (my interior life) that it was not important to me that they understand me. And I simply requested a removal from forum membership offering no explanation as to why. I received removal along with appolgies.

You also wrote:In other words, the need for me, for instance, to be as open as I can be about my life, is so I can be validated in my beliefs. I believe in the end, this is the real goal of people like myself who come to places like this.

Here again, when people who I have respect for their opinions, fail to validate me, it forces me to re-evaluate my beliefs. In this way I am able to improve and hence later re-seek validation.

Yes that is healthy At the end of the day the evaluated truth has too work for you.

You also wrote:We all have the basic need to be validated in our own beliefs. I believe that is what this is all about.

Of course (as you have demonstrated) this needs to be in conjunction with workable results, and not dependent solely upon my or anyone else's opinions.

Elizabeth,
I definitely could not have said it any better than you!
Sis! Just to let you know I did read your thread, but Elizabeth said it for me - "What a woman!!!"
Love you all,
Virginia

Well Sis,

Elizabeth and I are basically saying the same thing. No one person has it all. What she did not say in text she has said by her actions.

How is your interior life hon? It has been my observation that your divorce may have done it some damage.

All the best.

Hi all,

I agree with Elizabeth; these are good questions.

I don't know, Loretta; for me, it depends on what you mean by "interior." Elizabeth takes it to mean the voice of our conscience (and consciousness)... what Socrates called his daemon. Then, yes, I agree; it certainly does have value, supreme value. We cannot really be ourselves in any true sense of the word if we fail to march to the beat of our own drummer.

If, on the other hand, by "interior" you mean "wilfully hidden" (or something like it) then I'd have to start rubbing my fingers on my chin and stare up at the ceiling. Like Elizabeth said, this deep desire to understand and to be understood is the main reason we gather here, on this forum, for example. I fail to see how we can explore who we are, plumb the depths of our own being, sound our own souls, while simultaneously "holding back" aspects of ourselves (or truths about ourselves) we're either ashamed of or know too little to bring out into the light. Again, Socrates said it best: Ho anexetastos bios ou biotos anthropoi. "The unexamined life is not worth living." It's much harder to examine a thing when that thing is covered by a darkness, hidden.

We often face a seemingly unending battle between the aggressive promotion of our own private interests and the gaining of some measure of wisdom and maturity. Of course, the two aren't mutually exclusive but it's a very difficult and uneasy partnership. We gain more by being more transparent than less transparent. For one thing, we gain a greater authenticity in our relationships with other human beings. Ask Elizabeth. Or Sharon Rose, for that matter.

Now, if by "interior" you mean "spiritual," then, yes, by all means, the interior life has tremendous value. For me, though, spirituality (and religious beliefs) are more concerned with matters of "connectedness" than they are with matters of "apartness." The more I feel my link--my authentic link--to the world around me (and that would include other people, natch), the more my interior life finds itself enriched.

Finally, if by "interior" you mean "intimate, personal," then, yes, of course, it's not possible (nor even desirable) for someone else to know everything there is to know about us. Hell, even we will be spending our entire lives trying to discover what there is to know about ourselves. It never ends; we're always changing, evolving (or regressing, as the case may be). This element of uncertainty introduces a need to be circumspect about the shape or nature of our own hearts, minds, and souls.

Having said all this, I still hold that clarity and transparence are better allies in a quest for authentic living than are darkness and hiddenness. By the way, I should point out that I make no moral judgments, here; there's an incredible variety and a rich diversity of ways of "being human." What works for one person is anathema to another. And I understand we all need to respect that.

Again, Loretta, thought-provoking questions. Thanks!

Love,
CJ

when i saw the title of this banter, it reminded me of a song I was listening to yesterday: leonard cohen: in my secret life.

'I smile when I’m angry.
I cheat and I lie.
I do what I have to do
To get by.
But I know what is wrong,
And I know what is right.
And I’d die for the truth
In My Secret Life."

how could I tell if someone was completely open with me. wouldn't I have to be him or her to know that?

I'm very open, and then I'm not. Guess that sums it up.
luv
e

Hi CJ,

Your opinions were appreciated CJ. However I don't think this thread should not be about how I think our interior life should be defined, although I think that for the purpose of this thread; Elizabeth's response and my response to her should be enough to define it. I think it can be kept simple.

It is quite enough (for the purpose of this thread) that you have acknowledged an interior life. I have personally determined for my self what mine is, what it consists of, and how it will be supported. I am secure enough with it that it will not be put up here for debate.

What you suggest may well have worked in a perfect world. Alas something many cross dressers seem unable to grasp is the rest of the world has things they consider wrong with them that they do not want to reveal to others. No one is exempt.

Cross dressers (M-F) as a result of the clothes we wear simply can not hide it from every one, and still go where most of us would like to go. So it puts us in a more difficult place than most. It forces us to deal with issues that others are not forced to deal with.

When we look at the struggle we went through facing issues we would rather not have had to face. How hard it was for us? Yet by some stretch of the imagination we think that we can simply share this part of ourselves (educate others) with those who use projection as a defense mechanism (that is designed to protect their interior life).
I think that signals desperation on the part of us cross dressers.

Here is a suggestion...How about attempting to get those with whom you want to share your secret with to share their secret. And if you think they don't have one you have just found the perfect person.

Now having addressed that issue. I feel that I need to state the intent of this thread is not to argue or debate if it is wise to be open or not (we have already done that). but to look at the interior life, how it effects the external life, and how they can even work together.

All the best.

In part Eva wrote: How could I tell if someone was completely open with me. wouldn't I have to be him or her to know that?

Good question Eva. Thanks.

Hi Loretta Ann--
Over the years, I found that when I was with certain partners long-term (more than a year, let's say), that they brought out a need in me to be open, to let them hear about some very unsavory parts of me. I didn't do this because I liked talking about the worst parts of me. I did it because those inner thoughts were getting in the way of the closeness and intimacy I had with the partner.

So I guess that I would have to say that in my life, there has never been intimacy unless I shared both the good and the bad that was inside of me. I didn't have to do it all at once, but I had to talk about thoughts I had that I would rather have kept to myself. I also didn't seem to be able to pick and choose which thoughts they were going to be, either. It was whatever was coming up in the moment.

I am not "completely open." No one is. But..I am always ready to "give up" any private thought that is getting in the way of my closeness to someone who matters to me. In doing this, I have come to find out that there is no way of judging whether some things are 'nobody's business." It seems that everything and anything is, if the circumstances demand it.

I have had to surrender some ugliness that I thought no one could stand to hear, and that no one should have to hear. Thing is, once the screaming and anger were over, there was new intimacy created. I hated what we had to go through, but I valued the intimacy. I personally don't know any other way to get it, long-term. That's just me; I don't know how others handle it. Intimacy is seemingly easy when I first meet someone, but if I want to keep it, I eventually have to start opening up.

It has been a long time since I was in one of those relationships, and that's been my choice not to do that. But I don't forget the X-ray intensity of what that's like when it's happening. And it's not one-sided--I have to deal with the black side of her, too.

Hi Anita,

That was one of the most beautiful and open posts I've read here. You are such a beautiful person inside and out and I pray that you find that special person who you can open up to.

In my experience here you haven't just been kind when I first got to know you. You've been kind, supportive, loving, compassionate, and understanding for almost two years and it's been consistent.

Thanks for sharing even more about you. You are so beautiful it's out of this world.

Well ladies, I will say this again, probably in a little different way, but still the same song, just a different verse. I am one for whom this forum has changed my life -FOR THE BETTER! I can not even begin to consider where I would be with out the knowledge, love, support, empathy, caring and yes, even the trips to the wood shed, that you have bestowed on me. For all that you have given me, I will love each of you forever.
To address the thread, I will only say this, I know now who I am, where I have been, a lot of the why I am the way I am (and I love it!!); I know where I want to go and I will carry all my crosses with me! Some of my crosses you nor any other human will ever see! They will go to the grave with me!!! Others, I will carry myself for the world to see and yet others, I may actually ask for help in carrying!
At my stage in life, I do not care to look back, I only want to move on. I know that I will have future adventures, obstackles, mountains and valleys to cross, but I have a bit of knowledge, wisdom and understanding to get me though and that my dear sisters only comes with age! Maybe some of what I have learned is wrong, but it is what I have to fall back on and will make the best of it. That is my internal - self! For me it is the proverbial chess game! Honey, as long as you have a move the game ain't over!
May God continue to shed HER blessing on one and all,
Love you all,
Virginia

While I may try to be as open to others as possible, I still believe in the statement that "discretion is the better part of valor".

Is it possible to be totally open, at all times, to all people? Perhaps. Would that be desirable? For either party? Perhaps not.

I think that who we open up to and about what depends very much on the circumstances. While I may be fairly open and frank about my crossdressing and those aspects of my life directly affected by crossdressing, here on this forum, there are many other areas of my life that simply don't belong here. Or, at least, I don't feel they belong here.

The only person that I have an obligation to be totally open with is myself. But, as CJ and Anita said, in different ways, the more open I can be with a person, the more freedom I feel I have to enjoy that person's company. The less energy I have to expend in maintaining a defense shield, the more energy I have to simply enjoy life.

Love,
Kathy

Hi Anita,

That is a very good post. Thank you for the time it took to compose it.

You wrote:I am not "completely open." No one is. But..I am always ready to "give up" any private thought that is getting in the way of my closeness to someone who matters to me. In doing this, I have come to find out that there is no way of judging whether some things are 'nobody's business." It seems that everything and anything is, if the circumstances demand it.

On the other hand I have experienced situations in a twelve year relationship I had with a woman where things that were shared actually drove a wedge between us.

Some of them were things that did not have to be shared, and were none of my business. Which did nothing to benefit the relationship.

Just as you can cripple someone with the truth you can also hurt someone unnecessarily with information. The information that was shared actually destroyed part of the intimacy we had shared.

So how does one know what to share?

Hi everyone!

This is a great thread on opening up to others.

I remember watching an old episode of "Gilligan's Island"; the theme was about revealing your thoughts to others.

Gilligan finds a bush filled with "magical telepathic seeds." He ate a few of these seeds, and Gilligan was able to read the thoughts of the other Castaways. However, the "telepathic effect" only lasted a few hours, much like taking heroin or other drugs. Gilligan eventually handed out plenty of these seeds to the Castaways.

Gilligan's theory was that people could nonverbally share their thoughts and feelings with others; people would be able understand one another better and create closer friendships, relationships, etc. Without any secrets, there would more harmony and peace with one another.

Unfortunately, things went wrong. As long as the Castaways kept eating these seeds, everyone's private thoughts and feelings were out in the open. For example, the Howell's couldn't keep their personal feelings, opinions, thoughts, etc. private from one onother. The Howell's ended up having a verbal shouting match with each other!

When Gilligan saw the social chaos of the Castaways, Gilligan burned the bush that had all of the "magical telepathic seeds." At first, the Castaways believed this was a stupid thing that Gilligan did. Eventually, they realized that Gilligan was right; no more telepathic seeds, no more reading of each others thoughts, more peace, more harmony among the others.

I learned that you don't need to explain or tell your personal thoughts, opinions, secrets, etc. to the whole world.

I decided not to reveal my crossdressing to anyone in my family. I've told several friends, and of course, others present at monthly TG events.

You can maintain confidentially with family members and no one else.

You can maintain confidentially with close friends and no one else.

You can maintain confidentially with certain co-workers and no one else.

You are in charge of your own life and destiny.

Maria