Watching other ladies

[Delia]

If any of you girls want to go out dressed and pass without anyone knowing, before you venture out, i would like to make a suggestion. Take time to study other woman, how they stand, and what they do with their hands when sitting down. Its a lot different to how a man does it. For instance watch how a lady crosses her legs, how she will often smooth out her skirt or dress. If they are in a dress or , you will often see them put there hand inside the neckline, as if they are pushing their bra straps back in place. Watch a woman standing looking in a shop window or looking at goods in a shop, she will swivel on one heel from time to time. Watch how she tucks her skirt or dress under her before sitting down. Watch how she carries her handbag. There a a million and one things to study, get most of them correct and you will have a lot less problems passing as a female at any time. Any other thoughts on the subject will e welcome. Hugs Delia

[SilverLady(SO)]

Those are all good tips, Delia, but another one to remember is that most GG's do not stand (or sit) with their hands or arms folded/crossed in front of them at the waist (or lap, if sitting), and I've seen *many* CD's doing just that! That position is a dead-giveaway that "you" (the CD) are not a GG, and actually draws more attention to yourself.

I would recommend that the CD go to a mall, in drab, and just people-watch . . . watch how GG's of all ages walk, sit, stand, their mannerisms, hand gestures, etc. . . . watching these things on TV or in the movies is so far removed from real-life it's laughable.

The idea is to watch and learn, then do . . . the more "you" pass as just one of the girls, the more fun you'll have!!

*Hugs*

- SL

[Lydia]

Besides -it's just fun to look, to ogle - and to envy.

Lydia

[Barbara G]

Those are all good tips, Delia, but another one to remember is that most GG's do not stand (or sit) with their hands or arms folded/crossed in front of them at the waist (or lap, if sitting), and I've seen *many* CD's doing just that! That position is a dead-giveaway that "you" (the CD) are not a GG, and actually draws more attention to yourself.

I would recommend that the CD go to a mall, in drab, and just people-watch . . . watch how GG's of all ages walk, sit, stand, their mannerisms, hand gestures, etc. . . . watching these things on TV or in the movies is so far removed from real-life it's laughable.

The idea is to watch and learn, then do . . . the more "you" pass as just one of the girls, the more fun you'll have!!

*Hugs*

- SL

[Carla L]

Silverlady,

That position is a dead-giveaway

What is the proper way to put our arms? and hands so they don't draw attention?

[Terri(SO)]

I cross my arms and fold my hands fairly often, seated and standing. Does that mean I'm perceived as CD?

[Ann Stef]

I too have been trying to emulate the effects of ladies while in public. The smoothing of the dress in the back before sitting down, and pulling the dress over the knees, if needed, while sitting down. Taking small steps while walking, and keeping the toes pointed straight rather then duck style like a man. I pull up the bra straps on occasion. Taking small bites at a rest. is also lady like. I keep learning.

[Stephanie W]

Good advice one and all! Nothing like learning from the experts. No question that some of men's mannerisms are a dead giveaway. Speaking of which....Terri, your secret is safe with us, although you had better that our esteemed SilverLady doesn't kick you out of the SO's section now.

Stephanie

[SilverLady(SO)]

Hi, all -

I apologize for any confusion, Terri, and did not mean to imply that only CD's crossed their arms! Yes, GG's do stand (or sit) with their hands or arms folded/crossed in front of them at the waist (or lap, if sitting) . . . but it's how they do so that makes the difference. Let's see if I can give a better description of what I meant.

A crossed hand position that is common for GG's, and what I was actually thinking of in my original post, is where the fingers are laced together and held at the waist while sitting, or loosely-held in front of them, arms slightly bent, while standing. This is usually a relaxed position, and most often the fingers/palms are facing upwards.

While it is common for people (male or female) to cross their arms, while standing or sitting, the hands usually go to the upper arm just above the elbow of the opposite arm. However, that position is also a very negative one, and in the study of body language it implies that the person is 'closed' to whatever is being discussed, whether they realize it or not. In short, it's a defensive position.

The crossed arm position I've seen many CD's using is one where the hands are placed on the forearm, just below the elbow, of the opposite arm (between the wrist and the elbow). That is just not a 'common' placement of arms (for anyone, really), and yet for some reason I've seen quite a few CD's using this particular position while standing or sitting. I don't know where or who told them to place their hands/arms like this, but it just screams "not natural" . . . which will in turn cause the viewer to take a closer look at the person . . . and that's where the CD will be 'read'.

According to Denäe Doyle, the proper way to hold your hands together (sitting or standing) is with one hand below the other and all fingers pointing upwards (palms up). This body language implies that you are 'open' to whatever is being discussed, helps to exude confidence in yourself and to others, and it also makes your hands look smaller.

When sitting, the open hands position (above) should be to the side, not in the center of your lap. Picture it this way: when sitting with one leg crossed over the other, the open hands position should be closer to the top (crossed) leg.

Virginia and I have the DVD's from Denäe Doyle and also from another company, U Define U . . . and we recommend that everyone watch them, yes, even us GG's!! While the DVD sets are not exactly cheap, they are a very worthwhile expense, IOHO. I know that Maria and Marlena Dahlstrom will agree with us, as they've both met Denäe Doyle in person and have had one-on-one sessions with her.

Between the 2 sets, instruction is given on the proper way to walk, sit, and stand (including hand placement), getting in/out of vehicles, opening and closing doors, how to properly walk through a doorway (!!), putting on and taking off a coat, walking down stairs, sitting at a dining table, and a whole host of other information. Just because we're GG's does not mean that we are pre-programmed with these behaviors . . . the behaviors need to be learned, and practiced, until they become natural.

Hope this helps!

Hugs, everyone!!

- SL

[Maria]

I haven't had any problems using public transportation while dressed as Maria. I simply show my bus pass with my male picture on it; the bus driver never questioned me at all. I know my transportation route, times between stops, and I use plenty of integrated movement when I sit down and stand up.

I have had several private sessions with Denae Doyle, have seen her at several Bay Area transgendered conferences, and I own her instructional DVD's. I actually practice with coats, purses, etc. when I watch the DVDs. If you are not able to see Denae in person in the San Francisco Bay Area or at various transgendered conferences, the DVD's are the next best thing to seeing Denae live. I agree with SL and Virginia; the DVD are worth the money.

As SL mentioned, it takes months to learn and practice feminine behavoir until they become natural. The way you behave is more important than a closetful of clothes. Because I dress part-time only, I don't worry about being a perfectionist when I am out as Maria; I speak in my nomral male voice, but using softer tones. Not thinking about your feminine movement when out and about will help develop more confidence in yourself while dressed.

Maria

[DeeDee]

Sure are some interesting comments here, they made me look at some of my own pictures. While standing, I seem to basically just hold my hands with my arms extended in a relaxed position, not many times simply cross armed. If I do, one arm tends to be straight down. Sometimes when I'm caught candidly, I'm surprised at my arm positions and posted one just for reference briefly. This was while deep in a conversation with another girl and not consciously doing "hand placement". So, I don't know...but I think if you pay too much attention to your pose and fuss too much, it will be noticable. Perhaps it is better just to study, practice and then let it be natural without thinking too much about it.
hugs
DeeDee

[Curly(SO)]

I agree with you, S.L, the placing of the arms and hands can be a dead giveaway.

While it is common for people (male or female) to cross their arms, while standing or sitting, the hands usually go to the upper arm just above the elbow of the opposite arm. However, that position is also a very negative one, and in the study of body language it implies that the person is 'closed' to whatever is being discussed, whether they realize it or not. In short, it's a defensive position.

This is true...but I think it can work in a positive way too...I've looked at CJ's pics, she has some 'arms folded..hands above elbow' poses and looks really great, very confident with her femininity and comfortable with herself. I think the more coy pose a lot of CDers do can make them look nervous. I also love Jeannie's pics...she always looks confident, strong, having fun and most importantly feminine at the same time.

Love,
Curly

[CJ]

Hi all,

Thanks for the compliment, Curly. In my case, I don't know that I was consciously attempting to hold my hands and arms in any particular way; I just held myself in a way that came naturally. In a way, in order to (at least, try to) exhude sensuality, I simply tried to find a loose way to hug myself. I guess it may have worked.

One thing about body language is that no one movement, gesture, or posture is ever evaluated as a separate entity. Kinesics and the study of body language suggest that interpretation of mannerisms and gestures is possible only when the whole complex of bodily communication is taken into account. Frank eye contact (with another person's eyes or with a camera lens) coupled with crossed arms means something entirely different than crossed arms coupled with a downward or averted gaze, etc., etc.

The only posture I consciously avoid is the one I call "The Statue"... standing ramrod straight, arms hanging to the sides, no expression on the face. It's not very, uh, communicative--not in women, not in men, not in anyone in between.

Love,
CJ

[Tekla]

I remember reading somewhere that there are something like 18 clues we instantly scan (without thinking about it) when assessing gender. Most of them had to do with mannerisms.

[Stephanie W]

Gee, a quick scan of my gallery pics puts me dangerously close to CJ's 'non communicado' pose. Hmm, I need to watch that and learn how to communicate 'sexy' or 'do I look fat in this?. Any of you GG's have any advice?

Stephanie