Reflections

[DebbieB]

I know I have posted some things which on the face of it seem highly controversial. Driving in my friends bra caused a bit of a rumble. The harmless facts are, my friend showed me a picture of herself wearing said bra, I commented how nice , she then gave me the bra as a gift, I didn`t ask for it. I`m a male who loves to dress as a woman, as a male I also have, as someone commented a bra fetish . After receiving the bra I was obviously going to try it on, finding the bra very comfy and sexy it became one of my favourite bras .

When I went out driving in the bra I was more in bra fetish mode than Debbie mode. It was dark , I was buzzing with excitement about being out doors driving wearing the bra..... . The buzz got more intense as I undid a couple of buttons on my shirt, this is me not Debbie , I just dared myself to go further and take the shirt off... This is the one and only time that I have done this...... It was exciting and I enjoyed it but it was an impulsive act which has not been repeated.

Someone commented that I was being unfaithful to my wife by wearing another womans bra . I think unfaithful is a bit harsh to say the least. My wife and I have a perfect loving relationship , never been unfaithful. my friend at work is also happily married and never been unfaithful. She is a good friend . The comments on here have certainly made me think about my actions, but deep down I don't think I`ve done anything to warrant the comments I received... This site deals with many complex issues, every person is different.........

I`m not a bad person really...................

[StormyDixon (SO)]

does your wife know you were wearing another woman's bra?
does your wife know you saw a picture of a friend in a bra?
does your wife know you drove around town in it?
would your wife face any shame or humiliation if you were seen?

these are things you need to think about, not just your own selfish impulses. it is not a crossdresser or fetish thing, it is a respect thing. think about it

[Eileen (SO)]

I agree, Stormy. Most all the CD's and TG's I've met want to be accepted in society as the gender they portray, safe and harmless. Getting special thrills over a garment is much closer to a fetish than the enjoyment of owning your own piece and how it fits and looks.

Someone commented that I was being unfaithful to my wife by wearing another womans bra . I think unfaithful is a bit harsh to say the least.

Debbie, you misunderstand the meaning of 'unfaithful'. Any exchange with a woman that you cannot share with your wife, is an act of unfaithfulness. It's a secret relationship excluding your wife. Think, what are you hiding?

If your wife kept a jock strap from a former boyfriend, or of a neighbor, how would you react? When first seeing this coworker's sexy bra, that's a problem by itself, you did not want to buy the same style in your size. You wanted to wear HER bra. That is the difference between fetish wear and cross dressing. Admitting that this a fetish act, OK. It's the other woman part that is offensive to a relationship. Certainly not a "perfect and loving relationship', as you claim. If only she knew!

All these posts on one subject.?

Eileen

[Leeza]

I fully agree with Stormy and Eileen on this.

As cross dressing can cause a lot of problems in a relationship you as the cross dresser need to be extremely careful not cross the line.

If you read some of the posts by the SO's many of them do not want thier man wearing their clothes even if they are accepting. If they don't want their man wearing their clothes, they would like it even less if they found out their man was wearing some other woman's clothes.

And talk about taking chances, if you think lipstick on the collar will get you in trouble, you haven't seen trouble till your wife picks up the smell of another woman's perfume. If your friends smell was in the bra then it is possible that you would pick up the smell in your system and your wife could smell it.

I know there is a rush when pushing boundaries, but there are some boundries that you need to stay far away from.

[Eileen (SO)]

Thank you, Lezza. And well said. Perhaps Debbie can move on to CD subjects now.

Eileen

[Anthony Simon]

I know there is a rush when pushing boundaries, but there are some boundries that you need to stay far away from.

To me, this concept of "a rush when pushing boundaries" seems about as close as we can currently get to Debbie's CDing.

I've gone through (the small number of) Debbie's posts and there seems to be a constraint/release thing to it. Thus she says she "loved the comfy feeling and tightness of a bra" - which is like a contained/constraint thing. And there's a release thing in "I undid my shirt exposing my bra".

The whole of her thing of opening her shirt and revealing her bra and then driving around like that seems to work as a revelation of "Look, here I am, I'm a CD", while at the same time hoping that no-one would notice. That's very much about the constraints placed on society by CDs and the desire to be released.

But equally, it is Leeza's point of the buzz of pushing the boundaries. The whole thing of CDing being, of course, a pushing of society's boundaries.

This is one level of pushing boundaries. Then there's the level of pushing boundaries to do with wearing another woman's clothes. This implies a closeness with that woman - a release of boundaries that becomes more so when you're wearing a bra.

The thing about that closeness to a woman is it seems to echo the closeness mother and baby have. If you read psychology books, there's an early stage in a baby's development when it feels itself fused with its mother and her breast - at that point it has no boundaries.

Like I'm inclined to think that the big deal Debbie makes out of wearing another woman's bra has to do with a return to a point where she was fused with her mother and her mother's breasts. Like all these issues with boundaries are to do with unresolved issues from that time.

In that Debbie seems like she thinks we should celebrate her actions, while people here seem to think that she's gone too far by wearing another (not her wife's) woman's bra, you have a conflict about where boundaries should be drawn. But also it feels like it's enough for Debbie personally to act out her conflicts over boundaries rather than try to resolve them - which I'm not sure is going to work here.

[Eileen (SO)]

Anthony,

I hope you soon realize the difference between cross dressing and fetish wear. CD's wish to appear as female, while a clothing fetish is mainly about the clothing.
Certainly a CD just starting out will wear another person's clothing. The thrill is more in presentation than the actual item worn. Personal satisfaction will come from owning your own things in your size. Developing the femme personality with your own clothing and style.

Except for an introduction, Debbie has had but one subject, her friends bra. That's fine, do as she does. But don't expect approval from a spouse or girl friend.

Isn't the wish list of goals for the CD is to have an accepting spouse or gf? How is that going to happen when the most cherished possession is from some other woman?

Never, Anthony, never, compare the thrill of wearing a bra to the bond of a mother growing a baby inside of her and childbirth. An asinine statement.

Eileen

[Anthony Simon]

Anthony,

I hope you soon realize the difference between cross dressing and fetish wear. CD's wish to appear as female, while a clothing fetish is mainly about the clothing.

You're being too hard and fast and drawing your boundaries too narrowly. Ralitsa, for example (of the people here) has no interest in being perceived as female.

Certainly a CD just starting out will wear another person's clothing. The thrill is more in presentation than the actual item worn.

You like broad-brush statements.

Personal satisfaction will come from...[d]eveloping the femme personality with your own clothing and style.

Again doesn't fit Ralitsa, who has a pretty full CDing life without any such "femme personality".

Never, Anthony, never, compare the thrill of wearing a bra to the bond of a mother growing a baby inside of her and childbirth. An asinine statement.

Eileen

Oh, the internet. Sooner or later, you're going to find someone misconstrues what you wrote and then attacks you on the basis of that misconstruction.

I was attempting to compare the baby's experience to that of the adult CD. According to psychological theorists, the baby can't tell there is a boundary between him and mother. Early development, it is asserted, is in part about the baby learning gradually to be apart from mother and her breasts.

[SilverLady(SO)]

Anthony -

I presume you have a logical reason for attacking another member for their thoughts and opinions?

Disagree with another member all you want, but don't ever attack that member in the open forum ... and that is exactly what you did when you singled her out.


I disagree with several members here, but I tend to keep my mouth (er, my fingers) silent.


- SL

[Anthony Simon]

Well, she suggested that something I said was asinine. That seems an attack on me - which is what I was referring to in my post.

[DonnaT]

Sorry I was ignoring this thread.

One should never call another's opinion "asinine." It is a personal attack.

Doing so causes hard feelings and heated responses, that can also be construed as a personal attack, because they aren't worded right. For example, "You like broad-brush statements" can be said better as --In my opinion, indicating that all CDs xxxxx, is painting CDers with a broad brush, because not all CDs feel/act that way--.

Tit-for-tat isn't a workable formula on forums like this.

Let's try to keep things from getting personal when we get upset about what others do or say.

[Eileen (SO)]

Oh please! A baby nursing at mother's breast does not compare any way, shape or form, to wearing a friend's bra. Only a man would make such a comparison and be offended when called out. I'll stick to calling it asinine.

Let's step back the rhetoric a bit before the moderators have their own falling out.

Yes it's true I speak in general terms, a broad brush.( Broad? That's a sexist term from the 60's) But we have to start from some sort of generalization to begin a discussion. Bringing up one exception does not disprove the facts that most Cd's wear clothing for appearance sake, while a clothing fetish is about the clothing item itself.

From the very beginning of these multiple threads on one subject from Debbie, I believe to be correct in that she enjoys the fetish aspect and less of the usual cross dresser. That's all fine, just don't deny it. And from the perspective of a spouse myself, she will never gain acceptance from a wife while wearing another woman's bra.
That's a fact, Anthony.

The typical CD may buy a bra in her own size and not drive around with her top unbuttoned. In questioning my husband on this subject, he admitted to doing much the same when in early teenage years. That was 40 years ago, well before the internet, and felt confused, guilty, and ashamed of his actions then for lack of knowledge.
There are a lot hormones raging at that age, and some decisions that in retrospect weren't so smart. Now that, presumably, we are all grown up, how should we act?

When posting on a forum and asking for opinions, don't be offended when some responses are not what expected.

Eileen

[SilverLady(SO)]

Thank you, Eileen . . . all of your posts were well said and spot-on!!


- SL

[Ralitsa]

Wow, I haven't seen so much passion on a post for a few years!!
I'm glad to see that we have some new members posting and shaking things up a bit
It was sort of getting boring there for a while.

Well I don't really have enough information to judge whether Debbie's behavior rises to the level of infidelity, and I would suggest that none of us do. Eileen and Stormy do bring up some excellent questions, and it seems that without answers to those questions we should reserve judgement. We don't know how much Debbie's wife is aware of what is going on, and that seems the key point.

I will agree that wearing another woman's bra is an extremely intimate act and open to question. Perhaps Debbie understood that, perhaps not. But I would only comment that a key function of this forum is to help us all to understand our behavior, to see past what it means to us and to see what it means to those around us. I think yelling at someone and telling her how horrible it was to do that is not so helpful. I've always been impressed with Anthony's perceptiveness and ability to be cool minded and see the deeper issues. And there is a much deeper issue in Debbie's life, just as with all of us.

I really like that on this forum we can appreciate other points of view, and can offer helpful advice even when we do not agree with the persons actions. It's really nice to have a place to share, and to investigate our deepest issues, and reveal secrets that we cannot anywhere else. This process helps us learn our own morality instead of it being shoved down our throats by a bunch of do-gooders with their rule book. But instead of launching invective at each other, we can understand and offer advice and encouragement to become something better than we were.

I struggled a great deal with all the same issues that everyone else here has. I've done some highly questionable things. My own ignorance, stupidity, and lack of understanding are probably the main reasons I am no longer married. I wish I had found this site earlier in my life, and had the benefit of the experience and perspective of those who had already been through it. Well I can't go back and change that.
All I can offer by way of advice to Debbie is this: you need to decide if you want to stay married or not. If you do, then you must consider how everything you do will affect your spouse. And if you don't, then you ought to just file for divorce right this minute and stop pretending.
Nobody else can make that decision.