Hi girls,
Yes, thanks for bringing up this whole restroom issue. I have yet to use the restroom anywhere while out. I am very concerned about being assaulted in a restroom out of site from witnesses or other who might sevre to disuade would be attackers. However, I am also worried that going it to the women's restroom will anger some hudband patiently waiting outside for his wife. Or that some woman will be upset and report me to management. I don't even know what the laws are in this regard.
If any of you have any insights or what you do when out dressed, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Love always,
Elizabeth
I gathered up my courage...
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
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Violet
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 300
- Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:24 pm
- Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
I just use the mens room. I am, after all, a man. Unfortunately. And anyone who thinks they can pick on *this* 'fag' gets a taste of the boot. I refuse to be a victim.
"There's something wrong with him. He should be mine, but he's not. His madness... his madness keeps him sane..."
Delirium, 'the Sandman', Niel Gaiman
INSANE GOTHIK DIVA SYNDROME
Delirium, 'the Sandman', Niel Gaiman
INSANE GOTHIK DIVA SYNDROME
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Anita
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3068
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:55 pm
- Location: Burlingame, CA (San Francisco Bay area)
I did some research on it, Elizabeth, and I don't get a clear answer. As of January, California law prohibits discrimination based on gender identity, and there are laws about restroom use on the job. Nothing is said about restrooms for public use.
In San Francisco, the city law prohibits discrimination, and says that a person's gender is basically whatever the person says that it is. I believe that the state board of education in California has applied the same definition for students, since there was a news flap about a board in Orange county that was facing a loss of state funds for refusing to recognize this self-definition.
This has been written about a lot, so I know there are some on here who are up-to-date. My co-facilitator tonight is a post-op TS, and she says that there are no state laws either for or against using a particular restroom, if it's not job-related. We agreed that it seems to be a local issue that each community treats differently.
As far as practical reality goes, I have never been hassled or glared at in a women's restroom. No woman has ever looked shocked to see me in there. In public places with large restrooms, I always go to the women's side.
Since your femme identity is more internal at this point, I can see how you might feel uneasy about this. You shouldn't have to wear forms if you don't feel the need to do so, but I see on reflection that that is my ID badge--the fact that I'm wearing breast forms. In any other way, I might appear androgynous or even male, but breast forms are the deciding factor in my mind.
(You realize that with the political turn in direction this thread has taken, we may be dragged down to Mordor!)
In California, I think the law would probably not come down on you, no matter what your choice. Just in terms of what's best for day-to-day, for minimal hassles, I don't know. Violet's willingness to defend the choice is one option, but not one I think you want. What has been your approach so far?
In San Francisco, the city law prohibits discrimination, and says that a person's gender is basically whatever the person says that it is. I believe that the state board of education in California has applied the same definition for students, since there was a news flap about a board in Orange county that was facing a loss of state funds for refusing to recognize this self-definition.
This has been written about a lot, so I know there are some on here who are up-to-date. My co-facilitator tonight is a post-op TS, and she says that there are no state laws either for or against using a particular restroom, if it's not job-related. We agreed that it seems to be a local issue that each community treats differently.
As far as practical reality goes, I have never been hassled or glared at in a women's restroom. No woman has ever looked shocked to see me in there. In public places with large restrooms, I always go to the women's side.
Since your femme identity is more internal at this point, I can see how you might feel uneasy about this. You shouldn't have to wear forms if you don't feel the need to do so, but I see on reflection that that is my ID badge--the fact that I'm wearing breast forms. In any other way, I might appear androgynous or even male, but breast forms are the deciding factor in my mind.
(You realize that with the political turn in direction this thread has taken, we may be dragged down to Mordor!)
In California, I think the law would probably not come down on you, no matter what your choice. Just in terms of what's best for day-to-day, for minimal hassles, I don't know. Violet's willingness to defend the choice is one option, but not one I think you want. What has been your approach so far?
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Jadeanne
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1059
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:19 pm
- Location: Western NY, USA
Hi all,
It's great to be back home where Jadeanne can be herself after over a week away.
Celes,
I hope things go well for you if you decide to reveal your femme side.
Elizabeth and Anita,
I have noticed in several area malls and Thruway rest stops in New York state that there is a 3rd restroom marked as Family or Assisted with symbols for both male and female. I would think that larger and newer places in your generally more tolerant area would also have such restroom arrangements.
Jadeanne
It's great to be back home where Jadeanne can be herself after over a week away.
Celes,
I hope things go well for you if you decide to reveal your femme side.
Elizabeth and Anita,
I have noticed in several area malls and Thruway rest stops in New York state that there is a 3rd restroom marked as Family or Assisted with symbols for both male and female. I would think that larger and newer places in your generally more tolerant area would also have such restroom arrangements.
Jadeanne
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Anita
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3068
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:55 pm
- Location: Burlingame, CA (San Francisco Bay area)
Hi Jadeann--
Yes, I went to a Giant's baseball game with a lesbian friend, and they had family restrooms there, too. I didn't see them until I'd already braved the women's room. I do say "braved," because it was crowded in there, and my friend is on the boyish side herself. I didn't have to wait in line, but there were lots of women all around, and nobody paid any attention. I was very surprised, and very grateful.
Yes, I went to a Giant's baseball game with a lesbian friend, and they had family restrooms there, too. I didn't see them until I'd already braved the women's room. I do say "braved," because it was crowded in there, and my friend is on the boyish side herself. I didn't have to wait in line, but there were lots of women all around, and nobody paid any attention. I was very surprised, and very grateful.
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Kersten Lee
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:05 am
- Location: Central Nebraska
Celes,
If these people know you well, it is my experience that most will do a little soul searching and not just pop off. It seems easier to blast unknown people easier than one that is well known. It was true also of me in what now seems as my distant past. And no, I am not ready to announce myself to everyone. I have been doing it slowly one person at a time. You must judge how the minister will react. He could lead an opposition. If you know him well, trust your own judgement on the right thing to do.
Anita, you are the greatest!
Love,
Kersten
If these people know you well, it is my experience that most will do a little soul searching and not just pop off. It seems easier to blast unknown people easier than one that is well known. It was true also of me in what now seems as my distant past. And no, I am not ready to announce myself to everyone. I have been doing it slowly one person at a time. You must judge how the minister will react. He could lead an opposition. If you know him well, trust your own judgement on the right thing to do.
Anita, you are the greatest!
Love,
Kersten