Crossdressers-Haven.com

Hi everyone!

I was sent out of town on business this weekend and most of the work was done at night which left my days free to explore the area. I went to the local mall Saturday afternoon and sat on a bench in the center of the mall and people watched for a couple of hours.

I was amazed at the number of CD's I saw while sitting there. I bet I saw ten that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt were CD and at least five others I was not sure about. All of which were dressed enfemme. Being in total male mode I could just be a silent observer and I thought I would share what I saw.

There were four distinctly different types of CD's I saw, the first was the ones who did not even attempt to "pass" they were, for lack of a better term, "men in dresses" by this I mean they had on feminine clothing but that was it, no makeup other than maybe lipstick. While no one said anything directly to them, after they were out of sight the laughter and the things that were said about them was just brutal.

The second type I saw was those that attempted in every way to appear as feminine as they possibly could but were so scared that someone would make them that their actions gave them away. Once again the talk and laughter after they walked by was brutal but not as bad as for the first type.

The third type was the ones who looked and acted "overly" feminine. By that I mean those whose choice of clothing was completely out of place for wearing to a mall, I did not see a single GG wearing dresses with lace trim nor did I see a GG wearing pumps. They over emphasized their femininity. They had a little too much sway to the hips, their arms waved a little too much. They had people turn and give a second look and some made jokes and some didn't.

The last type was the ones who were very comfortable with who they were, they weren't over dressed and carried themselves very well. There were a couple of girls that if I didn't have an eye for girls like us I would have never noticed. These girls hardly got a second glance from the guys or older women. Teenage girls tended to pick up on them more than anyone but it was more in a "was that a girl?" type of way and I never really heard anything negative being said about them.

I mentioned earlier that I had had seen some I wasn't sure about and the reason's for those varied. I saw one girl who was as tall as I am but she looked so natural and seemed like she was how she was supposed to be, another had a decidely male jaw line but once again her actions made me question my initial judgement.

If I learned anything from this experience it was that those that acted like they belonged got much less attention paid to them than those that acted nervous or didn't dress for the occasion.

Hugs
Stef

That is interesting Stef.

I am going to have do some of that.

Do you feel that although some of the comments were brutal, that they were safe? Could you expand on that please?

If you saw that many in two hours there must be a lot more out there than we think?

Great post Stef... sounds like a really fun mall.

I know that I don't exactly "pass" even on my best hair day, but I do try my best to just blend in when I am out and about. Personally, I don't want any more attention then any other woman my age. Being confident in who you are is key, and a smile never hurts.

Hugs and Kisses,
Wendy

Great post Stef!
Bet you were able to pick me out! The blond with the gray mini with the
low cut white blouse and 3" pumps??? Did I pass?? Just kidding!! I only wear that to the movies. Anyway I bet a lot of our sisters will be spending more time at the malls now, checking out the competition?!
Love.
Deborah

Darlene wrote:Do you feel that although some of the comments were brutal, that they were safe? Could you expand on that please?

Hi Darlene!

The comments I heard were like "Oh my God! What is he thinking", "How freaky can you get", "What possesses a man to do something like that" One of the worst was "Why is someone allowed to in public like that" There were some comments made that I can't post here, they were along the lines of pervert. I heard less harmful comments such as "It's Halloween already?" and "Is Springer having a reunion show around here" Personally I don't mind witty or funny comments being made because I think when things are shown in a humorous light that leads to better acceptance. Someone is more willing to be at ease and learn more about something viewed in a light hearted way than in a mean spirited way.

Being in a very public place in the middle of the day I feel the people were safe. There were a few groups of younger guys that did make comments leaning toward violent. My feeling is that if they had seen one of these girls in a much less populated area they would have tried to start trouble.

One thing I would like to add is that none of the comments I heard were made to their faces, the comments were all made after they walked off. My guess is that all these girls were thinking that they had been out all day and no one noticed that they were really a guy. I guess that is a good thing because that means were are at least gaining some tolerance. People may not like us but at least they are tolerating us which to me is a good first step.

Wendy......You can try saying that to someone who hasn't met you but I have and know you look great sis!

LOL Deborah! Dressing for the movies is something completely different. I'm sure there will probably be a few wives that will be suprised when they say "I'm going to the mall" and their husband says "Hold on, I want to go too." and when they get there the husband will tell them "I'm going to sit down here, come get me when you are ready to go."

Hugs,
Stef

Thanks Stef.

One thing I would like to add is that none of the comments I heard were made to their faces,

Ya Stef people can be pretty brave when talking behind some ones back.

I really believe that a lot of us get read a lot more than we realize, many who read us are just not comfortable confronting us.

Hi Stef,


By looking at your avatar it would look that you would have little problem in passing while out in public.

As to your observations, yes I agree that most of us would be read upon closer inspection, but from afar if you try to enhance anything that can look feminine to cover any masculine traits, most of us would be able to pass. Some cders probably don't care, look at how many GG's do not care at how they look, in fact I'm sure some GG"s have been confused for being a cder.

As for how to dress, yes if you dress more to blend in you'd be less likely to be read, but even if you are a dressier cder and carry yourself in a more natural feminine confidence, you'd likely ( from afar ) not be read. You may draw a curious or provactive looks esp. from males ( who may get turned on at the sight of what appears to be a woman in maybe a nice business looking outfit and heels) but IMO you'd be viewed much as a lady and even if read either not botherd with or treated as the lady you present.

I find in reality even strangers do not want to offend others. Those who may read a cder and be troubled by such are still going to go about their way and ignoring the cder. They ( esp. guys ) may say derrogatory stuff under their breath esp. if the are with male friends ( don't want to sound as if you were excited or turned on by a dressy, or even slightly sexy cder )

I think and I'm guilty of it too, much of our worries are inside our heads, we naturally fear rejection and ridicule, even though the public rarely does such to anyone incl. cders. Oh the occassional person may stare and yes maybe even say something in an of hand way esp. behind your back, but in reality that is about as far as it would go.

I have not gone out dressed passable much, but I have not noticed anyone in such case acting odd towards me or about me. I dress slightly dressy ( but not slutty ) mixing casual with formal, say maybe a long denim skirt with a pair of high heel boots and a semi formal silk button down blouse etc. The heels may kind set me off a bit, but GG's do wear heels esp. business ladies shopping at lunch or after work etc. I love blending my fav. aspects of dressing with enough toning down to make sure I don't look to out of whack nor too easy to read. I'm sure I would have been read or confused others, but who cares, in a minute they will have forgotten me.

This does not making dressing up easier as again I believe we carry a fear though natural is hieghtend by our subconscience.

I have yet to try this but as brought up by me in another thread I want to push myself to be dressed as a nice clean safe guy, but wearing a pair of heels. I will not pass, but I will push my feminine mixing with masculine boundries. I am still too nervous to push this, but I believe other than looks and quiet comments, most people in the public will hardly care, at worst I will be seen as interesting or amusing... Anyways its somthing I've wanted to push to see my boundries and to harden myself so that when I dress passably I would have even less fear. I hope that makes sense.

Anyways, I just wanted to expand on your very informative post.

take care: Lacey

This has nodoubt been brought up before, but do you recommend visiting a mall just to observe before attmpting to go out for the first tiime? I've been trying to note mannerisms and such as of late.

Blessings,
Myra

A mall or this time of year a well attended outdoor event leads to good people watching. It does help to see how people dress & act. Seeing other T's is a bonus.

Anne

Well, I have decided there is no way I am going out en femme total as there is no way for me to pass. Plus I am afraid of my own temper if one of those groups of youth started something then I would have to finish it and I do not want to do that anymore. The bruises and cuts I get do not heal as fast anymore plus I am afraid of what I would really do if I started into that again, had problems with it in the past. Sua Sponte. Gelinda. Oh well that will save a lot of money for me. Do not have to worry with war paint. HA HA.

Myra,

When people watching, I'd focus more on what GG's are wearing as opposed to mannerisms. Just my opinion, but you'll get further in your early attempts to pass if you blend in visually. Work on the mannerisms once you've built up your confidence going out. You'd be surprised how little people notice beyond a few feet or so, so long as it "fits" the environment.

A visit to a mall while dressed would be fun, but they're a little too people-packed for me at the moment.

Angie

Hi all,

This thread brings to mind the capital importance of engaging, as Anne points out, in people-watching. You want to know how people act? Then watch people. It's been a favorite activity of mine for years, now. In the same vein, you have to actively listen to people if you want to know how they talk and what they say. I always pay attention to conversations around me--not as an eavesdropper, but as someone who's genuinely interested in how people say the things they do. And, of course (to return to the point) how they do the things they do.

Good point, Angie, about noticing dress more than behaviour. Still, the clothing we choose to wear is a social act in itself--when we dress in such and such a way, we're actually "behaving," in that, how we present ourselves to others is also a form of social intercourse. Just as Wittgenstein once said that "words are deeds," so, in a way, are clothes. Of course, that's all academic--being who we are, we watch women in order to get a grip on all those fashion "dos" and fashion "don'ts."

Love,
CJ

Well, I too love people watching. But this thread brings to mind one of my favorite movie scenes. It’s from an old movie called ‘It’s a Mad Mad Mad World”. The movie is about a car race with a lot of hidden loot at the end. The scene I love is in the beginning of the movie, at the start of the race. The drivers and their navigators are running to their cars to go, and when the Italian driver and his navigator jump in their car, the driver reaches up and literally rips the rear-view mirror off the windshield. He looks at his navigator with a huge, wonderful grin, throws the mirror over his shoulder, (they’re in a convertible), and says “What’s a-goin’ on behinda me, is a-nonna my concern!”
Love that scene.
I often do my errands partially en femme (I call it en androgynous). I’ll leave out a long description, but I’m definitely feminized, though nobody would have a real problem identifying my biological sex. When I go to the mall dressed en androgynous, I pay little attention to the people that I’m not interacting with (and, to be honest, I think most of them are paying little/no attention to me too). I’ll leave out the details of how I interact with people, unless someone’s interested, and say that most (over 90%) people I interact with are friendly and engaging, even if they are a bit startled at first. Of the remaining 10%, 90% of them (don’t ask me to do the math!) are, at the least, polite to my face. What people say behind my back is none of my business, so I don’t speculate on it (even if I hear it). I just pay attention to how very nice most people are to me. I base my expectations of way people act on that majority, rather than the very tiny minority that are openly rude to me.

And of course, the first thing I do when I enter the mall/grocery store/bank/whatever is tear off that pesky rear-view mirror. That thing’s much more trouble than it’s worth .

Lacey: put on those heels and go! It’s a blast! -Nicole

Hi Nicole,

Now that is a great way to look at things! I'll have to keep that in mind while I'm out and about.

Thank you for that!

Hi Stef,

Thanks for the thread!

People who just put on a wig and walk out of the door in a dress, I'm sorry, but gets under my skin a little bit. I guess in a way I think of them as TS's think of CD'rs sometimes. Meaning I respect your right to do it and all, but ouch does it make things more difficult for us.

I've noticed when people see a man who's dressed in female clothing, the softer you are the less likely they are to be angry. Why? Got me. I've noticed that the passable CD'rs get laughs, but no real anger.

My babble means nothing more than, "Please do your best to look like a respectable dresser." No woman puts on a dress and heels without taking care of her face. No woman really goes out of the house unkempt and goes to a public place like a mall. No woman gets dressed up in a beautiful dress, makeup and fashionably high heels to go buy a card from or shoes from the mall.

As long as we put thought into going out, practical thought, then I think we'll be ok. Do the best that you can, not only what you want to. Each of us who go out is a representative of our community, like it or not.

Thanks again Stef!!!!!!!!!!!!

Beauty