I really tried, but I got a headache.... ](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
I am glad to see the banter and challenges, but geeze my brain is getting taxed.....
Feelings
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
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Alexandra
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:27 pm
- Location: In Monolith We Trust
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Mutation is an expected result, but it is also a deviation from the norm. Evolution is expected as well. Note that some of the "Webster's" word outlines come with a "year" when they first appeared in language form. No the year is not exact but it does not need to be. The point is the word did not exist for all intensive purposes before then. How to describe something without the word and meaning attached?
So, again, mutation is not necessary, it is expected to some degree. You must look at the definition and then apply the meaning. About the year, my point there is that our ability to communicate with language continues to evolve, not mutate. We add new words and meanings as they become understood and accepted. A "wordsmith", a professional language expert, defines the new word in grammatical usage and then further defines the word in meaning.
That is how we are communicating right now. With a language of words and meanings. While this is obvious to both of us, we do not always think about the words that we use and their true meaning. If I say dog and I am thinking of a cat, how would you possibly know this unless you went to the same school of thought.
So looking at the definition of mutation and evolution, we clearly evolve for the better. When we mutate, it is considered a mistake in the algorythym of life. We then apply religious connotations and say that God does not make mistakes. How convienient.
Someone we have never seen, never makes mistakes. Monotheisim can be a mistake, we really won't know for sure until we cannot talk about it (dead). So, where does that leave us? The point is mute.
Language and it's meaning. That is all we have. We all live in the now! Try living in the future or the yesterday. Can't be done. No time machine except in our minds. No "beam me up Scotty," fun but not even close.
So, to mutate is to have an arbitrary mistake. One that we may accept but one that is still by and large a mistake. Not intended. I just made a spelling error and then went back and corrected the error. Mistake or mutation. Hmm, in what context. It is easy to bend words and their meanings. Did the word mutate? No, but it was a mistake easily corrected. 47 chromosomes, a mistake, not so easily corrected currently. In the future, perhaps.
CD/TS/TG/TV, evolution, mutation therefore a mistake? I am woman, hear me roar! Defend your mental castle!
So, again, mutation is not necessary, it is expected to some degree. You must look at the definition and then apply the meaning. About the year, my point there is that our ability to communicate with language continues to evolve, not mutate. We add new words and meanings as they become understood and accepted. A "wordsmith", a professional language expert, defines the new word in grammatical usage and then further defines the word in meaning.
That is how we are communicating right now. With a language of words and meanings. While this is obvious to both of us, we do not always think about the words that we use and their true meaning. If I say dog and I am thinking of a cat, how would you possibly know this unless you went to the same school of thought.
So looking at the definition of mutation and evolution, we clearly evolve for the better. When we mutate, it is considered a mistake in the algorythym of life. We then apply religious connotations and say that God does not make mistakes. How convienient.
Someone we have never seen, never makes mistakes. Monotheisim can be a mistake, we really won't know for sure until we cannot talk about it (dead). So, where does that leave us? The point is mute.
Language and it's meaning. That is all we have. We all live in the now! Try living in the future or the yesterday. Can't be done. No time machine except in our minds. No "beam me up Scotty," fun but not even close.
So, to mutate is to have an arbitrary mistake. One that we may accept but one that is still by and large a mistake. Not intended. I just made a spelling error and then went back and corrected the error. Mistake or mutation. Hmm, in what context. It is easy to bend words and their meanings. Did the word mutate? No, but it was a mistake easily corrected. 47 chromosomes, a mistake, not so easily corrected currently. In the future, perhaps.
CD/TS/TG/TV, evolution, mutation therefore a mistake? I am woman, hear me roar! Defend your mental castle!
Make the most of every day!
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Alexandra
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:27 pm
- Location: In Monolith We Trust
"deviation from the norm"
In this case "normal" is defined from the viewpoint of the majority (or, especially, their leaders. It was once "normal" to identify witches just by having a private thought that a certain person was a witch. Nowadays we know better. There's hope for us in the future as historicans will look back and see the Jerry Falwells of today as the REAL "mutants" and us girls were just doing the normal human thing.
Make sense?
In this case "normal" is defined from the viewpoint of the majority (or, especially, their leaders. It was once "normal" to identify witches just by having a private thought that a certain person was a witch. Nowadays we know better. There's hope for us in the future as historicans will look back and see the Jerry Falwells of today as the REAL "mutants" and us girls were just doing the normal human thing.
Make sense?
Alexandra
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
"I think and so I am." Basic philosophy 101.
"Normal," yes, this is defined by the majority. This leads us to how? Force! The social force that accompanys any group when they are the "majority." In a club, in a forum, in a meeting at the office, any where people are gathered, even in a local pub or bar. The majority set the pace for what is accetable inside of that group.
Eg., a gay bar. Outside the bar, the inside majority become the minority when they exit their collective surroundings. Only to re-enter they become the majority.
With this concept in mind,WE become the minority by choice. We protect ourselves by living individually and thus "divide and conquer" is applied to our community. There are many societies on this planet that gather into tribes and cults and groups for the sole purpose of appearing normal.
So yes, the Jerry Falwell's that are in the religious-right community, are in the minority when they step inside of another group. That is why they do not frequent other groups without a parade of protective personel that agree with their teachings and concepts.
"Live and let live." Many are willing to support us, others would like to eliminate us. Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews, someone for the populace to blame for their country's economic downfall in the 1930's.
Christian and Muslim, Muslim and Jew, when ever their is debate over whose God is better, there is violence. While all along in monotheism there is only one God, but, people do what? They use a different "word" and therefore attach a different concept or meaning to their word.
Full circle. Words are a group of letters, they have an understood meaning among different cultures. Sort of the "chicken or the egg" approach to whom came first.
A good object lesson for both of us. No two people ever agree on everything. That is what makes us individuals. Jerry Falwell has a right to his beliefs as they were developed over a lifetime and if others choose to believe in his word, well, I guess we will need to become preachers and start our own cult.
"Birds of a feather, flock together." Here we are in a protected forum. The majority. Since we can not physically transport ourselves into one room, this is the next best thing. I guess.
In a philisophical debate, no one needs to or is expected to win. It is just an exchange of ideas through words and their understood meanings. Debate clubs use a specific dictionary so that each team has an equal chance of using the appropriate word-meaning relationship.
In each century, we have redefined what is normal as you have pointed out about the witch concept. I do not believe that we are abnormal, but I also realize that we are not in the national populace majority in any country that I know of.
I guess that makes us special!
"Normal," yes, this is defined by the majority. This leads us to how? Force! The social force that accompanys any group when they are the "majority." In a club, in a forum, in a meeting at the office, any where people are gathered, even in a local pub or bar. The majority set the pace for what is accetable inside of that group.
Eg., a gay bar. Outside the bar, the inside majority become the minority when they exit their collective surroundings. Only to re-enter they become the majority.
With this concept in mind,WE become the minority by choice. We protect ourselves by living individually and thus "divide and conquer" is applied to our community. There are many societies on this planet that gather into tribes and cults and groups for the sole purpose of appearing normal.
So yes, the Jerry Falwell's that are in the religious-right community, are in the minority when they step inside of another group. That is why they do not frequent other groups without a parade of protective personel that agree with their teachings and concepts.
"Live and let live." Many are willing to support us, others would like to eliminate us. Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews, someone for the populace to blame for their country's economic downfall in the 1930's.
Christian and Muslim, Muslim and Jew, when ever their is debate over whose God is better, there is violence. While all along in monotheism there is only one God, but, people do what? They use a different "word" and therefore attach a different concept or meaning to their word.
Full circle. Words are a group of letters, they have an understood meaning among different cultures. Sort of the "chicken or the egg" approach to whom came first.
A good object lesson for both of us. No two people ever agree on everything. That is what makes us individuals. Jerry Falwell has a right to his beliefs as they were developed over a lifetime and if others choose to believe in his word, well, I guess we will need to become preachers and start our own cult.
"Birds of a feather, flock together." Here we are in a protected forum. The majority. Since we can not physically transport ourselves into one room, this is the next best thing. I guess.
In a philisophical debate, no one needs to or is expected to win. It is just an exchange of ideas through words and their understood meanings. Debate clubs use a specific dictionary so that each team has an equal chance of using the appropriate word-meaning relationship.
In each century, we have redefined what is normal as you have pointed out about the witch concept. I do not believe that we are abnormal, but I also realize that we are not in the national populace majority in any country that I know of.
I guess that makes us special!
Make the most of every day!
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Shannon
- Founding Member
- Posts: 210
- Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 6:42 pm
- Location: Houston, TX
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Shannon:
Well, we may be winding down at this stage. I think we hit our peak about two days ago. Often it has been my experience that if both parties are reasonable, they can have a fair exchange of ideas. I always learn something from these exchanges.
To me, everyone has a "point of view" that needs to be at the least, considered for evaluation. It is something like a four-part play. There is the introduction, the exclamation, the tug-of-war, and the final act, mutual understanding and personal growth.
So, thanks for forum thread. Perhaps others will benefit if they care to read what was written or not.
One womans truth, another womans questions.
Well, we may be winding down at this stage. I think we hit our peak about two days ago. Often it has been my experience that if both parties are reasonable, they can have a fair exchange of ideas. I always learn something from these exchanges.
To me, everyone has a "point of view" that needs to be at the least, considered for evaluation. It is something like a four-part play. There is the introduction, the exclamation, the tug-of-war, and the final act, mutual understanding and personal growth.
So, thanks for forum thread. Perhaps others will benefit if they care to read what was written or not.
One womans truth, another womans questions.
Make the most of every day!
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Joanna:
"I think, therefore I am."
Recently, a group of researchers from UCLA, Harvard and MIT, worked together on a project that would for the most part, begin to explain how we as humans can seem to arrive at answers without having studied the specific question at length.
e.g., we hear and learn the meaning of two sentences. There is an area in the brain that takes the data from both sentences and perhaps jumbles it around in some fashion, then arrives at an answer unasked. This begins to explain as we develop and mature, how we become more intuitive to questions that we may not have conscious information about.
Perhaps, at age 60, you have arrived at answers that otherwise would elude you least it not would be for the information collected and analyzed over the decades. Perhaps that is what we have come to call "Maturity of the ages."
I like to ponder the concept of time. If we all were to live 100 years in this life, how can that compare to eternity? I take a few minutes every so often to try to see if I can grasp the concept. It simply eludes me everytime. The number is infinity and that vast a number does not seem to translate into understandable terms. The same understanding that we seem to feel when we speak of next week or next year. The farther out we go in time, the less conscious feeling I have about the time frame.
I have learned that all we have is "NOW." The future we cannot touch, the past is over and gone, but, from the past we have collected information that we use for the future. Maturity, growth, call it what you will, it explains to me our development and structure as humans.
You make mention that you are ill. That this can be considered terminal. I think that I would like to hear more from you about what you think and how the days effect you on a personal note. I think that people seem to be at their most mature and divine connection when they are coming face-to-face with this reality.
You can now live as your authentic self and do not need to be pretentious about your social value. "Youth is wasted on the young." Perhaps not! Perhaps our less than mature attitude when young helps us collect the necessary data and experiences to be able to say this when we are older. We only get older, after being younger.
Hunter, gatherer, and home-maker, primitive perhaps, but none the less we all still fill these roles today. The jobs may have changed but the roles still are defined. For some of us, we ride the middle of the wave and seem to fill all roles adequately. Why not get to wear the appropriate garb that defines the role as well!
"I think, therefore I am."
Recently, a group of researchers from UCLA, Harvard and MIT, worked together on a project that would for the most part, begin to explain how we as humans can seem to arrive at answers without having studied the specific question at length.
e.g., we hear and learn the meaning of two sentences. There is an area in the brain that takes the data from both sentences and perhaps jumbles it around in some fashion, then arrives at an answer unasked. This begins to explain as we develop and mature, how we become more intuitive to questions that we may not have conscious information about.
Perhaps, at age 60, you have arrived at answers that otherwise would elude you least it not would be for the information collected and analyzed over the decades. Perhaps that is what we have come to call "Maturity of the ages."
I like to ponder the concept of time. If we all were to live 100 years in this life, how can that compare to eternity? I take a few minutes every so often to try to see if I can grasp the concept. It simply eludes me everytime. The number is infinity and that vast a number does not seem to translate into understandable terms. The same understanding that we seem to feel when we speak of next week or next year. The farther out we go in time, the less conscious feeling I have about the time frame.
I have learned that all we have is "NOW." The future we cannot touch, the past is over and gone, but, from the past we have collected information that we use for the future. Maturity, growth, call it what you will, it explains to me our development and structure as humans.
You make mention that you are ill. That this can be considered terminal. I think that I would like to hear more from you about what you think and how the days effect you on a personal note. I think that people seem to be at their most mature and divine connection when they are coming face-to-face with this reality.
You can now live as your authentic self and do not need to be pretentious about your social value. "Youth is wasted on the young." Perhaps not! Perhaps our less than mature attitude when young helps us collect the necessary data and experiences to be able to say this when we are older. We only get older, after being younger.
Hunter, gatherer, and home-maker, primitive perhaps, but none the less we all still fill these roles today. The jobs may have changed but the roles still are defined. For some of us, we ride the middle of the wave and seem to fill all roles adequately. Why not get to wear the appropriate garb that defines the role as well!
Make the most of every day!
-
Alexandra
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1149
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:27 pm
- Location: In Monolith We Trust
Danielle said: "I think that I would like to hear more from you about what you think and how the days effect you on a personal note. I think that people seem to be at their most mature and divine connection when they are coming face-to-face with this reality."
Me: I'm inclined to agree. Of course, its understandable if this is something one would rather not talk about.
Me: I'm inclined to agree. Of course, its understandable if this is something one would rather not talk about.
Alexandra
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
The following is an excerpt from a web site that was supported by a now deceased individual. I believe that this individual was unique in "her" own rite. Perception is 9/10 of our own reality and personal truth by which we consider and judge events that take place around us! 
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Welcome, To A WebSite About An "Other"
A Berdache's Odyssey
Note: Berdache passed away in May,2002 after a brief illness. Email and private guestbook message, will therefore not be answered. This site however, will remain as a tribute to a wonderful, kind caring person,and in hopes of helping others. Webmaster
This page will explore Human Gender issues, and include Human Sexual issues such as sexual identity that may differ from our apparent sexual packaging and public perceptions of those individuals.
I will also touch on homophobia, gender fallacies, social conditioning, gender bias and prejudices. I will refer to history and New Age Progress against paternally dominated religious myths and fallacies (and their dogma of perpetuation, proximate of social persecutions). These include control of women, by male dominated social control, in education and employment facilities and the media.
I am labeled medically as an Intersexual and I am a "True Hermaphrodite" with a DNA chromosome karyotype of 46 XXXY (mosaic). In today’s society many Transgendered or Transsexuals refer to themselves as "Intersexuals". But though their bodies may be physically altered, they are medically still biologically unchanged. These brave people undergo excruciating pain and lengthy treatments and expense to have their external bodies match their inner identity and spirits as women, or men. These pre-operative/post-operative sexually-altered individuals are often inaccurately perceived and described as hermaphrodites, or "he/she’s" but they are not Intersexuals or Hermaphrodites.
There are many various "intersexuals" and that term denotes people born apparently in-between what are known as "normal" (average) sexes, within a physical sense. There are those who appear to be males but are medically (biologically) females, and others with female physical attributes that are medically/biologically males. There are also some who’s external sex is indeterminant, as well as those of us having appearances of both, externally and having the DNA chromosome karyotypes of both sexes.
There will be links on these pages for those curious about this rare physical condition. Of the great deal "known" about some causes of intersexual births, much is still only conjecture of an anomaly. The Intersexual Society of North America, (ISNA) is a non-profit society or group made up of intersexuals and medical professionals deeply concerned with this subject, and with the present medical practice of surgically assigning a single sexual appearance to babies born intersexuals. This is done without the knowledge or consent or preference of the child, who is affected for life. In some cases it is done without the parent’s knowledge or consent. There is also a thumbnail history of myself later, on this page.
Although I have attributes of both physical sexual extremes labeled "male" or "female", I question, as do many others, that there are two sexes only. A number has been expressed maintaining that there are five sexes. Perhaps there are as many as 15% of all people in some degree in between "male and female" physically (intersexuals.) This is only physically, there are many millions more who are psychologically, or spiritually born into the wrong body. Even many more who are spiritually hermaphroditic whatever their sexual preferences or gender orientation.
Most people recognize we are both spiritual and physical beings. Does one attribute prevail over the other if they conflict? Religions whose doctrines state they are interested in the spirit or souls of others have traditionally closed their eyes to the soul’s or spirit’s true identity, concentrating on the physical identity (bodies) of the people. Fortunately this is slowly changing.
The question arises which of us is the mutation, those like me or the single sexed? These "normals" engage in a continual gender war of contention, disparagement and abuse ( both physically and mentally. ) The normals experience a 54% divorce rate because people are gender brainwashed into being practically different species with little or no common understanding.
Throughout world history we (hermaphrodites) have existed. Perhaps we were more numerous before present medical practices. Many religions and tribes honored us as god-like clones, even Christianity having reasoned and stated in Genesis that God was of both sexes.
Many tribes labeled us "OTHERS", not either sex, and we were not socially genderized to behave in some pattern but used as judges with insight into other sexes. It was thought we had special powers of intercession with the God. The European "Berdache" was one of these "others" in history. This term was also used to describe the "Others" found in Native American cultures as well. However "nadleeh" is the most descriptive term.
Some adopted female attire and behavior patterns, while others functioned as males in society. Even in ancient Egypt where there was a female King or Pharaoh. Egyptian judges B.C. wore female attire, shaved their body hair, and were celibate, while in office, the rationale being they could judge with impartiality over all of the people. Robes of office still prevail today.
Genetics, medicine, and science recognizes our similar origin and common DNA. It is said only one SRY gene imposed on the common pre-birth gonads differs us sexually, otherwise all would be female. Genderized psychological programming and brainwashing however divides us from birth to death, placing all within either the blue or pink camp, and results in animosities of false expectations and perceptions of traditionalistic gender delusions.
This genderizing is , in my opinion, responsible for much injustice, hate and abuse. This gender programming has been a social tool utilized by institutions to repress women and men, by/with male dominated religious oversight that influenced "social approval" or conversely it’s "social sanctions" thus controlling human sexual expression. This is power indeed over a basic physical need, enslaving the female, by men’s law to sexual expression for procreation purposes.
Women’s' sexual rights are HUMAN RIGHTS "all of our rights" and the hard won gender issues will still be eroded unless all people are alert and active in Sexual Rights Issues.
Just an "other",,,,,
Copyright © 1997-1999 Berdache Jordan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:|
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome, To A WebSite About An "Other"
A Berdache's Odyssey
Note: Berdache passed away in May,2002 after a brief illness. Email and private guestbook message, will therefore not be answered. This site however, will remain as a tribute to a wonderful, kind caring person,and in hopes of helping others. Webmaster
This page will explore Human Gender issues, and include Human Sexual issues such as sexual identity that may differ from our apparent sexual packaging and public perceptions of those individuals.
I will also touch on homophobia, gender fallacies, social conditioning, gender bias and prejudices. I will refer to history and New Age Progress against paternally dominated religious myths and fallacies (and their dogma of perpetuation, proximate of social persecutions). These include control of women, by male dominated social control, in education and employment facilities and the media.
I am labeled medically as an Intersexual and I am a "True Hermaphrodite" with a DNA chromosome karyotype of 46 XXXY (mosaic). In today’s society many Transgendered or Transsexuals refer to themselves as "Intersexuals". But though their bodies may be physically altered, they are medically still biologically unchanged. These brave people undergo excruciating pain and lengthy treatments and expense to have their external bodies match their inner identity and spirits as women, or men. These pre-operative/post-operative sexually-altered individuals are often inaccurately perceived and described as hermaphrodites, or "he/she’s" but they are not Intersexuals or Hermaphrodites.
There are many various "intersexuals" and that term denotes people born apparently in-between what are known as "normal" (average) sexes, within a physical sense. There are those who appear to be males but are medically (biologically) females, and others with female physical attributes that are medically/biologically males. There are also some who’s external sex is indeterminant, as well as those of us having appearances of both, externally and having the DNA chromosome karyotypes of both sexes.
There will be links on these pages for those curious about this rare physical condition. Of the great deal "known" about some causes of intersexual births, much is still only conjecture of an anomaly. The Intersexual Society of North America, (ISNA) is a non-profit society or group made up of intersexuals and medical professionals deeply concerned with this subject, and with the present medical practice of surgically assigning a single sexual appearance to babies born intersexuals. This is done without the knowledge or consent or preference of the child, who is affected for life. In some cases it is done without the parent’s knowledge or consent. There is also a thumbnail history of myself later, on this page.
Although I have attributes of both physical sexual extremes labeled "male" or "female", I question, as do many others, that there are two sexes only. A number has been expressed maintaining that there are five sexes. Perhaps there are as many as 15% of all people in some degree in between "male and female" physically (intersexuals.) This is only physically, there are many millions more who are psychologically, or spiritually born into the wrong body. Even many more who are spiritually hermaphroditic whatever their sexual preferences or gender orientation.
Most people recognize we are both spiritual and physical beings. Does one attribute prevail over the other if they conflict? Religions whose doctrines state they are interested in the spirit or souls of others have traditionally closed their eyes to the soul’s or spirit’s true identity, concentrating on the physical identity (bodies) of the people. Fortunately this is slowly changing.
The question arises which of us is the mutation, those like me or the single sexed? These "normals" engage in a continual gender war of contention, disparagement and abuse ( both physically and mentally. ) The normals experience a 54% divorce rate because people are gender brainwashed into being practically different species with little or no common understanding.
Throughout world history we (hermaphrodites) have existed. Perhaps we were more numerous before present medical practices. Many religions and tribes honored us as god-like clones, even Christianity having reasoned and stated in Genesis that God was of both sexes.
Many tribes labeled us "OTHERS", not either sex, and we were not socially genderized to behave in some pattern but used as judges with insight into other sexes. It was thought we had special powers of intercession with the God. The European "Berdache" was one of these "others" in history. This term was also used to describe the "Others" found in Native American cultures as well. However "nadleeh" is the most descriptive term.
Some adopted female attire and behavior patterns, while others functioned as males in society. Even in ancient Egypt where there was a female King or Pharaoh. Egyptian judges B.C. wore female attire, shaved their body hair, and were celibate, while in office, the rationale being they could judge with impartiality over all of the people. Robes of office still prevail today.
Genetics, medicine, and science recognizes our similar origin and common DNA. It is said only one SRY gene imposed on the common pre-birth gonads differs us sexually, otherwise all would be female. Genderized psychological programming and brainwashing however divides us from birth to death, placing all within either the blue or pink camp, and results in animosities of false expectations and perceptions of traditionalistic gender delusions.
This genderizing is , in my opinion, responsible for much injustice, hate and abuse. This gender programming has been a social tool utilized by institutions to repress women and men, by/with male dominated religious oversight that influenced "social approval" or conversely it’s "social sanctions" thus controlling human sexual expression. This is power indeed over a basic physical need, enslaving the female, by men’s law to sexual expression for procreation purposes.
Women’s' sexual rights are HUMAN RIGHTS "all of our rights" and the hard won gender issues will still be eroded unless all people are alert and active in Sexual Rights Issues.
Just an "other",,,,,
Copyright © 1997-1999 Berdache Jordan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:|
Make the most of every day!