Struggling

[Terri(SO)]

Hello Colette,
When I first found out about my CD, I found My Husband Betty. It is a great book and you should read it and ask your wife to read it too. The web site is a little over the top for me and this forum is a little better, gentle and seems to have a wider range of CDs to talk to. Many more of the participants on mhb are on the road to transistion which might scare your SO even more.
I want to say BRAVO! to DonnaT for reminding you that love should be the focus of everything.
Georgia has articulated so much of what an SO feels about CD that there's not too much more I can say. My situation is very different because he told me very early in our relationship so I could make the choice to stay or run.
I especially like Georgia's suggestion to breath! and breath again. You both have much soul searching to do. Don't rush it.
Terri

[Colette]

As always everyone, thank you.

For those of you have already posted, if you are coming back here and see that what you posted included my previous username, could you please edit your posts and change the name to Colette? I don't know that my wife will end up here because I am not pushing her to do anything, but I wanted to change my name just in case.

Compromise? Yes I get it. Does my wife agree right now? No.

Love? Absolutely. And, I try to steer our conversation that way but it can be real easy to try and "convince"/manipulate/control her when doing so. I really don't know what to say most of the time because honestly my driving desire is to get her to at least try to gain some understanding. So, I just keep my mouth shut. We have a date coming soon and I hope we can really communicate without me losing more than I have already.

My biggest desire right now is just for her to try and seek some knowledge on this topic - even more than compromise. But it seems as though she has made up her mind and the ony thing that is going to make a difference for us is me following through and finding a way to control this thing and eliminate the desire. So, therefore she won't seem to do anything else. I am hopeful a bit right now though because we have a friend who is a relationship coach who has offered to work with us for free. My wife agreed and so for this I am thankful. I am believing that she will be an objective intermediary for us, but I also have some fear that she doesn't have any deeper understanding or acceptance of this issue than my wife does. I am willing to try anything. So, we shall see.

Speaking of love. If anyone wants to read the best book on the subject I have ever read (and am reading these days to help me with this), the name is "Mastery of Love" by Don Miguel Ruiz. It has been very helpful to most everyone in my life (they have all had it recommended to them).

[SilverLady(SO)]

Hey, Colette - - I'm glad to see that you took my advice!

Now if everyone who posted a reply to you, in both this thread and your New Member thread, went in and edited it to reflect your new name, then there would be no confusion later on. I'm editing my post in New Members now.

I wish you and the wife the best, but there's going to be a lot of hills and valleys before you reach the plateau. We'll be here to help you along the journey.



- SL

[Colette]

You are all so helpful. THank you for so quickly chaning the name in your posts.

I am feeling more confident and hopeful today. My wife seems to be a little more connectable as well.

Will be gone for a while on vacation. Miss you all.

[DonnaT]

I am hopeful a bit right now though because we have a friend who is a relationship coach who has offered to work with us for free. My wife agreed and so for this I am thankful. I am believing that she will be an objective intermediary for us, but I also have some fear that she doesn't have any deeper understanding or acceptance of this issue than my wife does. .

Well then, give the intermediary the links you want your wife to read, and suggest she read them to know where you're coming from.

[Colette]

Donna,

I sent a few links to the "intermediary" and have not yet heard from her on setting up a time. Don't know what is up.

I purged a few days ago. I didn't have much so it wasn't too much of a loss.

Marriage is looking pretty hopeless. I go to counseling tomorrow and still am not sure what I am looking for. If the counselor seems good I will try to get my wife there next time.

Started reading "My Husband Betty." But, my wife's biggest complaint right now is that she feels I want her to accept my CDing rather than me trying to deal with the issues that "cause" it. Asking her to read the book, I am sure, would seem like another attempt to get her to understand and accept. Hopefully she will decide to read it on her own.

Just wanted to post an update. All of your advice has helped me communicate and understand my wife's viewpoint. I just feel so stuck and so does she. I am learning that I am dependent on her to a certain extent to validate me and to feel accepted. When I look at her for a week now and see no warmth, or she even looks away, I find my heart breaking every time. I want to accept myself fully and not need anything from her, so I often distance myself so that I don't feel that hurt. This is just counterproductive and she feels even more "suffocated." I just don't know what to do. I don't expect any answers either, but it feels helpful just to say it.

Thanks for listening.

[DonnaT]

But, my wife's biggest complaint right now is that she feels I want her to accept my CDing rather than me trying to deal with the issues that "cause" it.

Has she suggested what those issues might be?

Has she no idea that there are no issues that cause one to be transgendered? We are born that way.

I sent a few links to the "intermediary" and have not yet heard from her on setting up a time. Don't know what is up.

Hopefully she's reading and learning, and even taking the initiative to search for more.

Hang in there Colette, hopefully things will get better.

[Colette]

Donna,

In response to your question: "Has she no idea that there are no issues that cause one to be transgendered? We are born that way." The simplest answer is no, she doesn't. Even if she did some research I have my doubts whether she would agree with that statement. I am sort of with you on it, however, since it hasn't been determined definitively where CD desires come from, one could easily argue that it begins sometime in early childhood (birth through maybe 3 or 4) or even through inner womb/emotional bond with mom experiences. The emotional draw to it all could have begun as easily as any of the false beliefs we develop as children. I believe, for example, that during a very early, probably pre-speech, period in my life I learned that in my family it was not okay to express anger. Could I not also have developed a belief that only women are fun, comfortable, soft, touching, or especially (in my case) bonding. Perhaps my attachment to the softness of my "blankie" influenced my desire for the tactile sensation of soft clothing, etc.

So, I hear what you are saying, but I think there are still other possibilities in the development of our CD desires. I am not really arguing with you, just showing why I can identify with my wife's viewpoint.

Nonetheless, I like to dress, and I don't want to give it up, except as it bothers her. She actually says she is more concerned about me resolving any identity issues I have, not about me stopping CDing, and yet she doesn't want crossdressing in her life. She wants me to be "authentic" and doesn't believe that this is authentic for me. And yet, at other times she will say that she can't determine that for me - that only I know what is authentic. Confusing.

[Absaroka]

Ah the famous "underlying issues" issue. I suppose a Freudian might talk about transference to the mother or something and if you can just resolve those feelings the CDIng will go away. Who knows, maybe that is true of someone somewhere. Or a need to be submissive, or to distance ones partner and so on ad infinitum.

I think self understanding is great (my former career was in mental health after all) but in life it's also the booby prize. The real prize is acceptance and it may be hard to have your wife udnerstand this. What she may also be struggling with is did this have anything to do with her. The answer probably being no, it exists completely independently of anything she does or does not do. Likewise it does not mean anything about her. Specifically it does not mean there is something wrong with her for being married to you, accepting you, for having trouble accepting all of this, or any of that.

Good luck and please use us for an outlet.

Absaroka

[Georgia(SO)]

Collette -

Sorry to hear that things are rough. I don't have any answers. I know that it never occurred to me that my sweetie could have been born with multiple genders until I began to read the posts from the folks on this forum. Now it makes a lot of sense, in some intellectual way.

We'll keep listening as long as you want to keep talking....

georgia(so)

[Colette]

Hello everyone,

My wife and I started the coaching this week after I met with the coach individually. She was very helpful and very accepting. I even picked up on a little side comment she made about "society's view of masculine and feminine versus the wide range of differences in other cultures." There seemed to be some indicators there on where she is at.

But, things are going badly. My wife is going to house sit for some friends this next week with our kids. She told me yesterday she doesn't want me to come with her. She has stated several times that she needs to figure out if she wants the marriage at this point. She also asked that I not touch her unless I ask and get her consent. Also, last sunday my in-laws came to talk to me (or rather her mother came to talk, her dad came to passively concede as usual). She had apparently called my wife a few days before and said "Is (Colette) involved with women's clothes." (She claims that it was her intuitive, spiritual self that came to this conclusion and gave my wife this impression, but Occam's Razor tells me it was the painted toes she saw me with once that brought her to this conclusion). Anyway, she kept trying to say she wasn't judging me or telling me I was wrong, and yet she kept using the word "perversion" and got very much into telling me the reasons why she thinks I crossdress. Then, today, I got two messages from her. In the first one she said "i am to the point of xing you out of my life" and "if you don't call me within three hours I am going to take some real strong action" and "I will not be silent." In the second message she told me it was her last and that she was done with me (this after I had left a message at her home phone number returning her first call). You get that this is my mother in-law right? Why should I take this? I called her back and left her a goodbye message as well (at her request).

Where is the acceptance, not of CDing but of me? I get that my wife is bothered by this and doesn't know if she can handle it. But now I am, from my mother-in-laws perspective (I forgot this part before) "abusive to my wife and my kids?" It is the CDing she is talking about. And I think my wife feels this way to. She asked me just the other day how I would feel if she told me she needed to go and have affairs with 12 other people and then went and did it. Because, she said, this is the way CDing feels to her. Then, today, my wife said, "how would you feel if I dressed our sons in dresses and had them greet you at the door that way." That seems so unfair to me. And, you know something, it feels abusive to me as well. No one has ever said to me that I was any less than a great father. Why am I being made out to be such a horrible person all of a sudden? I understand hurt, confusion, even anger. But I am still a person and don't deserve to be berated.

Ughh. It is looking like the end and I just don't know how I will do it. I am so lonely.

[DonnaT]

Gee Colette, that's rough.

Did your wife not like the way the coaching was going or something? Did she expect 100% support for her position, and not find it?

I fear you are right about where your relationship is going. Sorry.

But you are also right in your perception of being the one who is being abused. Mental abuse can be quite devistating. Seems to me you've proved your love by seeking help, etc. Where's the love in return?

If you feel it weighing you down, seek profession support.

Or just say F it, I don't need this.

Whatever works best for you.

And try not to isolate yourself from other friends and family. Or try and get out and make new friends to keep from feeling lonely.

[Jeannie]

Colette if it's the end it's the end. No matter how much counseling you get if it's not working it won't work. Maybe at 55 I'm a bit cynical but life is short. Most relationships don't last. It's human nature. If you find yourself alone is that so bad? You can live your life and not the lives of people around you. You will find others who like you for the person you are. You have to try to work things out but if you always come to a dead end,show them the door. Don't stay with someone who barely tolerates you or needs years of therapy to do so. It doesn't make any sense.
Life is not perfect and love lasts for a very short time. Happiness comes from within and counting on others to make you happy never works. Live your life and enjoy it or others will do it for you. The only person who has to accept you is you. If the people in your life can't cope with it tell them to get the F--- out. You're in that grave a long time Sweety. Live your life while you have some time left. Hugs


Love
Jeannie

[Virginia]

Hi Colette,
Well what can I say other than the proverbial. "been there done that!" My wife (the divorce is still going on. She actually moved in with her parents almost two years ago! but that is another story!) Let me tell you a funny story! My father-in-law is a retired minister and every year that I can remember for over 25 years I was married to his daughter at Holloween - don't get ahead of me!? - yes he dressed up ---- as a woman. When I "came out" to my wife after I figured to some degree what was happening to me - up until about three or so years ago Virginia just was not there! Anyway, part of my pentence was that I go to counselling which I did and on my first visit I said to the guy, "I'm a crossdresser - I don't have a problem with it! Do You? For all I know you could be wearing a bra and panties under that coat and tie!" Another story (you know he never did respond to that! ) anyway, I digress, my wife immediately told her parents and they asked me to stop by their house "to talk." Colette, I sat there and listened to them for three count 'em three hours! Then I'd had enough and dropped the CD-bomb! "Marion, (my wife's mother) every Holloween since I have been in this family - Weldon (her father) has dressed up as WHAT???" Her response was immediate: "That's only once a year!" The bomb then fell on their pointy little heads as I got up and left them staring at eachother: "how many times does it take?"
I know you are going through probably the toughist times in your life. It was for me too, up until I finally listened to Virginia. I am at a different place on this continum called "crossdressing" tha a lot of my sisters. But I let Virginia have control of my life and Colette, it was the smartest thing I have ever done!!! Virginia along with my sisters here on this forum have saved me!!!!! If you have seen some of my posts if not: I am Virginia, she is me and hand in hand we will love each other unconditionally and continue together on our "Magical Mystery Tour!"
We have a gift, it is strong, solid, beautiful, something to be shared and it will return rewards beyond your wildest dreams. If Colette is truly part of you, let her loose, you will be amazed at what she can do for you!
Just this girl's experience! I wish for you only the best as you find your way. Please don't leave we are here for you!
Virginia

[Georgia(SO)]

Collette -

As an SO, let me tell you that I think that your mother-in-law's behavior was well beyond abusive. I also think that your wife telling your m-i-l was a crappy thing to do - the mother just happend to guess just after it came up as an issue in your marriage? After having seen painted toes years ago? C'mon...

Yes, some full grown gg's do run home to mama. Her willingness to do this is probably a bigger problem, overall, than the CDing. Unfortunately, you can't change how she will behave.

And to accuse you of being a lousy father, when this does not seem to have been a question prior to the discovery that you wear panties? Excuse me. This appears to be simply a case of petty hurtful things being said on purpose to hurt you. It is also a sign of things to come, I'm afraid.

I also do not see much of a place for reconcilliation at this point. I've been divorced twice - neither had anything to do with CDing. But in each of them, there was a line that was crossed during the collapse of the marriage that was irrevocable. Even when the *issue* in question was resolved, and even when we (DH #2 and I) both really *wanted* to make a go of it, there was just too much damage inflicted during the collapse. If you can't trust someone to not hurt you on purpose, for whatever reason and under whatever excuse, there simply is no point in keeping the marriage going.

Although you did not ask for it, I'm going to throw my two cents worth of advice in here. If you do not want the advice, you should stop reading now.

You have young children, eh? You have a m-i-l who is willing to get herself involved in the intimacies of your life. And you have a wife who is clearly in the stage of deciding that she wants a divorce. Pardon the imperative tone here, but I would suggest you take the money you are using on the shrink and find an attorney. You don't have to file for a divorce yet, unless that's what you *want* to do, but you do need to be prepared to protect your interest in the kids long before your wife files the divorce. Look in the GLBT phone book in your area (if there isn't a print version, there will be one on the internet) and find an attorney who is experienced in this. No, your standard issue divorce attorney is NOT who you want. You want someone who a) will not be freaked out and make you feel bad and b) who will know how to argue a case for joint custody or for whatever it is that you want.

I speak from experience. I left a physically abusive husband 15 years ago. I left because of the abuse. But I also left stupidly, having fallen in love with a much younger man (he was 19, I was 35). I wasn't prepared for the venom of my husband and his family. His sister had always been my best friend. Once I left, for reasons I'll never quite understand, she was prepared to have me hung.

Most attorneys thought it was scandalous that a mother of 4 had left with a young lover and many would not even touch my case. The kids' father's attorney had a field day and in the end, I didn't see my kids except twice in 15 years. Never mind that there had never been any questions as to my ability to be a good mother. Never mind any of that.

I realize you are hurting. I realize you can't believe that this woman you loved is behaving this way, or that she might eventually try to keep the kids from you. Shake your head, pack away the hurt for another day, and be prepared to protect yourself.

I am sorry that this is difficult. Truly sorry.

-g(so)