Should I expect my spouse to accept my CDing’?

[Brandi R]

Brandi -

Although your wife doesn't like it, she is at least 'tolerating' Brandi, right? After all, she still married you and she knew about you being CD before the marriage. I presume she's not saying that Brandi can't come out, she just doesn't want to see Brandi or know more about her?

Again, you should encourage your wife to join the Forum - she definitely needs to meet other SO's, and CD's as well, if only to talk about her feelings with others 'in the know.'

- SL

Well I told her about a yr in to our relationship. Then I was dressing then just not around her. I brought it back up again after we were engaged letting her know I still dress. She was upset about it asked if I would stop I have tried to stop went to a therapist as well. It repressed my desire for about a month then I was back at wanting to dress again. I haven't dressed since we have been married. I would really like to I am happy not doing it around her just by myself. I don't want to sneek around behind her back and be dishonest.

[Brandi R]

You look, NOT how she is dressed, i.e., do her shoes match her purse, but you YOU look into her eyes, deep in her eyes, then you ask the big question: "What is she worth to you and what are you willing to give up for her?"

That will determine your happiness, maybe for the rest of your life!!!!

Well, you asked and that is what it can come down to, that or living in constant fear for the rest of your life that someone may someday open "your closet" and there you stand, "a guy in a dress!"


That is a hard question to answer!

[Kira Dias]

Easier said than done.

[CJ]

Hi all,

For me, it's fairly simple: if she knew before she became your SO, and went ahead with the relationship/marriage anyway, then you're entitled to expect your SO to be accepting; if she only found out after entering the relationship/marriage, you're not entitled to expect her to be accepting. (Moreover, and in either case, it's a crapshoot as to whether or not an SO will also be supportive and encouraging. It's not a given.)

Mind you, nothing in the paragraph above says anything about the SO's, only about crossdressers. It may be the case that some SO's who were "in the know" turn out to be unsupportive (and vice versa). We live in a world of individuals and, in such a world, we have to look at things on a case-by-case basis.

For the record, I strongly agree with Georgia on the matter of irreconcilable differences. Those who are in a relationship/marriage that simply doesn't work for them (because of fundamentally irreconcilable issues, sexual or not) ought to do themselves a huge favour and go each their own way. Life is short.

Love,
CJ

[Brandi R]

I would be thrilled if she just let me cd and not be supportive. But I know it will be a conversation that is bound to come up here soon about cd'ing.
I guess I need to let her know on my needs in our relationship.

[Virginia]

Hi Brandi,
In deference to CJ ( and I love you honey!) I guess what we need is further clarification on what she knows and does not know! Does she know what a crossdresser is? Does she know that research is evolving and that it may, MAY be "a gift" (sic) that we were born with?

If you have "the talk" with her, I would venture into it with, "Honey you remember my telling you that I am a crossdresser? Well I have been made aware of ongoing research that it may be that I was born this way!"
I don't know where you feel that you are on the "Crossdressers Continuum" but you really need to determine that before you get into the discussion with her too deep!

If she is willing to at least discuss it, you are ahead of the curve. What you really want is for her to ask, "What's in it for me?" Hopefully she will be willing to set guidelines that you both can work with.

Good luck and keep us posted as you find your way on your "Magical Mystery Tour!"

Love,
Virginia

[Brandi R]

Thank you for that Virginia. She doesn't really know what a crossdresser is. I think she thinks of a crossdresser and think either drag queen or gay.
She feels threatend by it. She says she feels like she is not atractive enough for me. Then it turns to a whole I am not attacted to her thing.
It gets off point pretty quick.

Brandi

[ShamrockFaerie(SO)]

I think alot of it also has to do with the ature of your CDing and whether it's purely sexual or not.

If it's something you do for sexual arousal and pleasure, then your SO REALLY needs to embrace it if you are not willing to give it up. Since sex is something that spouses share exclusively with one another, if you CDing is sexual in nature, NOT sharing that side of yourself with your spouse and seeking sexual gratification secretly behind her back IS a violation of your marriage vows. But if it's more of a comfort or relaxation thing, then you can limit your dressing to times when your wife is not home if she truly does not embrace it.

That said.... If you want to remain married, honesty is key. Don't come out to her, then continue sneaking around if she does not accept that part of you. If she can't accept you, the relationship is over. Like pp said, she doesn't necessarily have to embrace the non-sexual side of it, but she DOES have to accept it, because YOU can't continue to lie to her. If she wants to remain your wife, she is obligated to accept everything about you. If she does not want to stay married to you, that is her right, but she needs to understand that she can't have it both ways. She can't be married to a person and ignore something about his personality that she may not like. It's there. And it is wrong for any spouse or SO to demand that a CDer change his personality just to suit her.

So as a SO, I have to say that you are entitled to expect your spouse to be accepting IF and ONLY IF your spouse intends to remain married to you after you tell her or you told her before you got married. If you tell your spouse and 6 months down the road she tells you "I just can't accept this and I'm leaving the marriage", well, that's the consequences for your secrecy, and you have to live with that. But if she says "I want to stay married to you but you have to promise me that you will never CD again", well, that's not fair to you, and you shouldn't put up with it. My husband says the ideal situation is what happened with us (after all the yelling about lies and deception)..... He told me and I ended up saying "Why don't we go get you your own stuff so you stop stretching my thongs?" LOL!

Best of luck.

-Tiffany

[Bernice]

I was all ready to respond to Danielle, when I got derailed by Tiffany, who said :

If it's something you do for sexual arousal and pleasure, then your SO REALLY needs to embrace it if you are not willing to give it up. Since sex is something that spouses share exclusively with one another, if you CDing is sexual in nature, NOT sharing that side of yourself with your spouse and seeking sexual gratification secretly behind her back IS a violation of your marriage vows.

So I will respond first to Tiffany, then to Danielle.

From my point of view, in marriage husband and wife share sex only with each other. Sex with a third person would indeed be a violation of the marriage vows. The biggest reasons for this vow are to prevent confusion over the identity of parents of progeny, and to prevent risk of sexually transmitted disease. Masturbation is NOT a violation, because it is not shared with a third person. Show me a wife who embraces sex every time her husband wants sex! You can't? Some studies show that young men can perform sexually ten times a day or more, and men think about sex more than 60 times per hour. (I will assume that you are familiar with the unpleasant effects of sexual frustration in males.) Does your appetite for sex measure-up to that standard? If not, could you reasonably allow for masturbation as a non-threatening compromise?

Marriage = In legal form, a binding contract between two people. By use of this form, families are established to continue the human process in all avenues.

Thank you Danielle. Now we can apply applicable contract law. If a woman does her due-diligence, and the man knowingly and intentionally conceals his CD proclivity until after the contract is made, then is this not "fraud"? In contract law, fraud has long been legal grounds for contract nullification. Normally, the wife must determine whether or not the post-marriage revelation is of a fact that rises to the level of "material misrepresentation". If the wife comes to the conclusion that she would have married him anyway, then the contract can survive.

Wow. It is unusual for me to see things in such a black and white manner as this.

Hugs,

Bernice

[Stacey]

So as a SO, I have to say that you are entitled to expect your spouse to be accepting IF and ONLY IF your spouse intends to remain married to you after you tell her or you told her before you got married. Best of luck.

-Tiffany

Good point. And that's our current problem. Her acceptance is shown only by not leaving the marriage. But she doesn't like and is shameful for it.

So it's how we define the term acceptance that is my problem. I can understand her not wanting to see it or participate in it, but I am having a problem with her not even wanting to read about, try to understand it, or at least talk about it. Because it makes me feel shame, because I do truly love her.

[Danielle La Belle]

Hi Girls:

Wow! I some how fell behind on this thread. Last post was May 2007.


Stacey: My spouse will not acknowledge my being TG. She will not read anything etc. You can lead a person to a "well of information but cannot make them read or accept it." This I know from experience.

The trick here is to understand that denial for some is a means of coping with something that they just cannot by any means get their mind around. It is a coping mechanism for many people. If it is too stressful, ignore it completely. This I live with on many levels other than just the TG reference. Some people mature at about age 17 and that is it. They age chronologically from then on, but their mindset is minted in stone after that.

I have been fortunate in that my spouse feels a strong affection for me, at minimum, a need for my existence in the marriage. 38 years and counting. So, I think it is fair to say, you need to decide if not already, what you can live with. I have been told that this can work itself out in time. How much time is a matter of two individuals in the marriage contract.

Hugs

Danielle Marie
(Better late than Never)...

[ShamrockFaerie(SO)]

Bernice - While I understand what you are saying, my views on masterbation are fairly unusual. I believe if my husband wants to masterbate, he can go ahead. But if he is using aids in that process (like pornography, phone sex, or, yes, women's underwear, specifically mine) secretly and without my knowledge, then he is cheating on me by allowing someone or something outside our marriage (a stranger or a photo or a secret) give him sexual gratification. My husband can fantasise and imagine all he wants, but anything he actually ACTS OUT goes beyond fantasy and become a problem for me. If he is covertly sneaking porn or any other sexual aid into our bedroom without divulging it to me, he is lying and there is a reason. That's how I see it. It might be rigid or black and white.... But for me to accept my husband's fetish, I have to KNOW about it. And being married to the man, I have a right to know about my husband's sexual needs and be allowed a chance to provide them. If I can't provide them, my hyusband should feel free to let me know that he is going to seek to provide them for himself. No problem. It's the SNEAKING that makes it wrong.... Not the actual act itself. KWIM?

-Tiffany

[Stacey]

Thanks Danielle. My wife too loves me deeply and also is a master of denial. I also love her and can't envision my life without her. On the other hand, I do know that she doesn't understand transness and doesn't want to either. She is embarrassed by it and feels shame toward it. And in those feelings, it does make me feel shameful and deeply hurt. I can never expect her to understand it or embrace, but just to acknowledge it would make me feel so much better.

[SilverLady(SO)]

Stacey -

You say your SO is embarrassed and feels shame towards "Stacey", and that as a result you feel shameful and deeply hurt, also. While I can understand that sentiment, I disagree with it. You had started a thread, "Shame and Embarrassment," some time ago, and I wish to quote, in part, a particular post by KathyB in that thread:

... shame and embarrassment are my SO's baggage, not mine. I dumped those wasteful and negative feelings and habits years ago, and I'm a better person for it. In my humble opinion: fear, shame, and embarrassment are horrible wastes of our psychological and emotional energy. They are negative feelings that restrict us. Security, maturity, and responsibility are far more constructive and useful feelings. They enable us to do more and be happy at the same time.

You can read her entire post here: http://crossdressers-haven.com/forums/v ... 7256#87256

I think what she says cuts through all the BS and tells it like it really is (or should be) . . . and since I have begun taking that same attitude, I feel so much better, physically and mentally.

Even though your SO does not care to understand or accept Stacey, I can almost guarantee that if you were to adopt the same attitude as Kathy, that you would feel happier, too.



- SL

[Elizabeth]

Should I expect my spouse to accept my CDing’?
...

Yes in some instances, no in others.

I have tried to avoid this thread, but I swear it beckons me. As everyone that knows me, will certainly not be surprised, I think there is right and wrong. This is a simple case of bigotry. Should we expect our spouse to accept gays. interracial marriage, equal rights for women?

Is the underlying question really, "should I expect my spouse not to be a bigot?". Perhaps, but perhaps not. Some are willing to tolerate bigotry, others are not. However, bigotry is not the only thing at play here. There is flat out sexual attraction. It is difficult to ask someone to be attracted to something which they are just not wired to be attracted to.

There is a good chance that your SO was attracted to you because of your sexuality. If fact it would be out of the ordinary if this were not the case. Asking a spouse to accept our transgenderedness on an intellectual level is different than asking her/him to still be attracted to you when you look like a girl or boy, as the case may be.

Yes, everyone should be allowed to be who they are. At the core of what we are talking about is the person we truly are. We know from Psychology 101, the simple fact that we all misrepresent who we are. We exaggerate our good qualities and minimize or deny our bad ones. We can't stop people from being who they are, but we can certainly make sure we don't see it, by either not getting involved with or ending a relationship.

So, if it's a simple case of bigotry, usually religious, than yes you should expect your spouse to be accepting. If however, it's a question of sexual attraction, the answer is no. Simply because your spouse can not help what turns them on or that they find attractive.

Ask yourself, would your spouse still have entered into a relationship with you had she/he known what was up with you, regardless of if you were aware yourself or not? There are a lot of things my spouse could do that would make her unattractive to me. I would still love her and she would still be the same person, but I could be turned off.

Having said all of that, I still believe everyone needs to come out of the closet. If it ends the relationship, than it's hard to argue you were soul mates. I believe everyone has to be who they are. We only have one life to live. We must live for ourselves first.

It was hard to confront my transsexuality. It ended my first marriage. Not that my first marriage did not have underlying problems, it did. Those who were here can attest to the fact that it was not a pleasant time. 20 years down the drain. But in my loss I found the person who truly loves me as I am. I can now live in my own skin and I am happier than I have ever been with Raven(SO).

I have seen my sister Virginia go through something similar and she too has found someone who truly loves her for the person she is. This can only happen if one decides to live as the person they are. If one insists they must be who they are.

This does not preclude arrangements to the mutual benefit of the marriage. Couples have all kinds of agreements about what they will and won't do. Some SO's don't want to hang out with your friends and drink beer. Perhaps you don't want to go to quilting group. We have different interests.

If you can be yourself, but your SO chooses not to participate, I see no reason she should be forced to as a condition of acceptance. However, it is up to each of us to make sure our needs are met. So, I beleive a spouse should accept this is a part of you and this need must be met, however I don't think she has to accept participating in it herself.

If you can not live with a spouse that will not participate, because it is a need of yours, than it's time to confront it and move on. This is not a simple fetish for most of us. It's a need. It's who we are. There is no cure or treatment other than acceptance. We have to accept this, but others don't. It's only a question of who we are going to hang with.

Love always,
Elizabeth