since my wife hates the fact that i'm a crossdresser, i would have to say that it does not play a role in our sex life. however, it brings up for me the question of crossdressing and sexuality. are they one in the same or two different behaviors? i was at a tri-ess meeting a while back and during conversation with one of the ladies about how to increase attendance at the meetings, she said we had to be careful not to encourage the 'fetishists' to come. i was horrified to think that i might be one of them. was i truly a crossdresser or was i just a fetishist? my insecurities increased (as if i needed more of those!) as i thought about the distinction between arousal and getting dressed. i have to be honest and admit that as a post-pubescent i would 'borrow' panties and masturbate. gradually, my crossdressing became more defined and the sexual aspect diminished. does that mean that i'm no longer a fetishist? wow, what a relief! perhaps we could do graduation ceremonies for girls who step beyond crossdressing as part of their sex acts?
please forgive my facetious ramblings. maybe i'm just jaded.
Has your sexual relationship been affected by you being a CD
Moderators: KimberlyS, CathyAnn
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Nina Femrite
- Miss Crystal Goddess
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:58 am
- Location: San Diego
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Michelle
- Miss Crystal Goddess
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:55 pm
- Location: Australia
Hi, Penny, and others
We've been marrried for 28 years, have three grown up children, and generally have a good life.
I told my wife about my Cding before we married, but it wasn't nearly so pronounced then ( I only had a couple of nighties and didn't use makeup, wear undies, or the like. She said she was O.K with it, but as I progressed, she became cooler towards it. She now tolerates it but doesn't participate .
As to our sex life,she never wanted me to make love to her en femme, so I complied.
After the birth of our last child, frequency of sex tapered off pretty steeply, until it ended completely. We haven't had sex in over ten years. Sadly, I think it is due to the fact that my wife feels that I'm not attracted to her, only female clothes.
She has let her body go, a shame, as she now has trouble getting about, due to her weight and two bum knees and hips (the knees have recently been replaced, and she now is walking much better).
We still get on well, I help her all I can, do all I can to help around the house, never comment on her weight, and am positive in all ways that I can.
As said, we rub along pretty well, in all areas except sex, which neither of us ever mentions. I, sorry to say,now get my all my sexual pleasure from dressing. But I do still get extreme pleasure out of it. You see, I make myself into 'ideal woman' when I dress. However,I'd love to have her a part of it, but I know she doesn't want to. She doesn't initiate sex any more, I think partly because of the pain in her hips and knees, partly because she is always tired, and partly because she thinks I don't find her attractive.
Also, sorry to say,but because of her obesity now, I do find it hard to be physically attracted to her ( she's 5 foot two, weighs 105 kg).
So we both live our lives, as lovingly as possible, but without sex.
Writing this, I am feeling very sad, as it's a thing both of us have put to the back of our heads for many years.
Sorry for rambling on,
Michelle
We've been marrried for 28 years, have three grown up children, and generally have a good life.
I told my wife about my Cding before we married, but it wasn't nearly so pronounced then ( I only had a couple of nighties and didn't use makeup, wear undies, or the like. She said she was O.K with it, but as I progressed, she became cooler towards it. She now tolerates it but doesn't participate .
As to our sex life,she never wanted me to make love to her en femme, so I complied.
After the birth of our last child, frequency of sex tapered off pretty steeply, until it ended completely. We haven't had sex in over ten years. Sadly, I think it is due to the fact that my wife feels that I'm not attracted to her, only female clothes.
She has let her body go, a shame, as she now has trouble getting about, due to her weight and two bum knees and hips (the knees have recently been replaced, and she now is walking much better).
We still get on well, I help her all I can, do all I can to help around the house, never comment on her weight, and am positive in all ways that I can.
As said, we rub along pretty well, in all areas except sex, which neither of us ever mentions. I, sorry to say,now get my all my sexual pleasure from dressing. But I do still get extreme pleasure out of it. You see, I make myself into 'ideal woman' when I dress. However,I'd love to have her a part of it, but I know she doesn't want to. She doesn't initiate sex any more, I think partly because of the pain in her hips and knees, partly because she is always tired, and partly because she thinks I don't find her attractive.
Also, sorry to say,but because of her obesity now, I do find it hard to be physically attracted to her ( she's 5 foot two, weighs 105 kg).
So we both live our lives, as lovingly as possible, but without sex.
Writing this, I am feeling very sad, as it's a thing both of us have put to the back of our heads for many years.
Sorry for rambling on,
Michelle
Fortune gives many too much, but nobody enough.
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Penni SO
- Miss Emerald Goddess
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:10 pm
- Location: Australia
Dear Michelle,Never say sorry,this forum is as much for people to air their emotions as it is to talk about dressing,in fact it goes hand in hand.
Many people love to dress they enjoy every aspect of it,and appear extremely happy,the truth is many people deep within the layers of how we protect ourselves are actually very sad,disapponited and even scared of life...to face the issues that really hurt within.
I am sad that you and your wife have lost that intimacy,I am more sad for you both at the fact that you have'nt been able to discuss the issue together.
I do know that for me,I have always been a very slender girl...however when we shifted to the country and Maries moods changed,in fact she became very isolated from myself and the children,seemed angry with eveyone including our friends..my comfort was food,and yes I gained quite a bit of weight...deep down I knew what the problem was,attempted to talk about it with Marie,but she kept saying she was happy....I used to think if your so happy,why am I so miserable...after a while I lost the weight for me.
Then we returned to the city,Marie came out about her Transexuality,that she was not a crossdresser.That year was terrible,she tried to take her life,she would disappear late at night,the kids and I were worried an dwhen I am stressed I eat...so again the weight piled on.In the last few months I realised that I was living and eating myself to being over weight because I was angry with Marie,angry I could'nt help her as much as I already was,and most of all I was angry with me....2nd marriage,but this person was it,I love them,how would we get through this.
Then I snapped and yes I took control of my life and the weight has slowly fallen of.Now of course due to hormones etc,we don't have sex as such,but there is still touching and caressing,and those moments bring us together and also help me with my own sexual self esteem.We are very much still in love and very much part of a partnership committed to our children but also to one another.I especially now make sure that I talk about my very deep feelings,no matter how much I think they may hurt Marie,if I don't I set myself a path of self absue in the departn=ment of what is not good for you to eat.I Have learn't that yes we are a team and soul mates,but as individuals I am as just as important or special as she is and that I must respect myself for me and not her.
Communication is extremely important and perhaps one day Michelle you maybe able to sit with your wife and talk openly about the changes in your relationship...perhaps if she has a chance to air her feelings her real feelings,she may feel better and then begin to heal herself.We as humans are so good at putting on an act to say 'well everything is just fine,I'm O.K.,when really we are not' so to not punish that person,we may punish ourselves through all different means,ie.eating,drinking,drugs,reckless night activities,or just isolating yourself from the world...I do know that for many relationships with crossdressing,the crossdressing changes in many various ways,and often it is never talked about,I have learn't that many CD's increase dressing as they get older,and life can for a couple take completely different paths,sadly the couple tend to lead seperate lives and lose that closeness,just remember that any changes you are experiencing no matter at what level,you must find a way to talk to your spouse about it...
I know this is a huge risk and she may up and go,but she may also appreciate your openess and want to work out what is going to be best for your relationship.Pointing fingers and saying well you accepted and she saying you said this is all you do..is most is certainly not the path to take,and it leads to so much hate......communication ladies...top of the list,make sure you know where your spouse really is at with the dressing,never take is for granted that she won't change becuase she could.I have seen spouses totally against become the most supportive spouses,I have seen supportive spouses swing the other way...all because there was a lack of real communication and listening.
Hugs Penny
Supporting wife of Transexual partner
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Pat
- Miss Emerald Goddess
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 9:31 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
- Contact:
My reply to the question "has my sexual relations changed with CD" the answer is brief - YES - My now, ex said that she felt that she was like a lesbian, and she wanted a divorce, and that is what she recieved, this is about 2 years ago & I think it was the best thing that has happen in the couple of years
Keeping them cupped comfortably.
-Pat
-Pat
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Michelle
- Miss Crystal Goddess
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:55 pm
- Location: Australia
Thanks, Penny, for your advice and your sharing of your personal experience.
I think you're right-it's gone on too long ,this avoidance of the subject of sex and intimacy. When I summon up the courage, I'm going to 'bite the bullet', and broach the subject with my wife. I hope there isn't any finger pointing -there certainly won't be, on my part, but I'm ready if there is. It really is my fault.
Once, before we stopped being intimate, she said to me," I'm always ready, if you are".Events got in the way, and I never responded, so it got lost in the mists of time.
I don't fear that she would leave- we're two people who've been together 28 years,raised a family, had good times and memories together, and I think one develops a 'bond' with someone, despite their differences - perhaps others would call it a 'rut'!
But I definitely will try to talk about it, although I can't think of what solution there would be to our problem, what with me now ingrained to get my 'kicks' by dressing.
But I'll try.
Hugs, Michelle
I think you're right-it's gone on too long ,this avoidance of the subject of sex and intimacy. When I summon up the courage, I'm going to 'bite the bullet', and broach the subject with my wife. I hope there isn't any finger pointing -there certainly won't be, on my part, but I'm ready if there is. It really is my fault.
Once, before we stopped being intimate, she said to me," I'm always ready, if you are".Events got in the way, and I never responded, so it got lost in the mists of time.
I don't fear that she would leave- we're two people who've been together 28 years,raised a family, had good times and memories together, and I think one develops a 'bond' with someone, despite their differences - perhaps others would call it a 'rut'!
But I definitely will try to talk about it, although I can't think of what solution there would be to our problem, what with me now ingrained to get my 'kicks' by dressing.
But I'll try.
Hugs, Michelle
Fortune gives many too much, but nobody enough.
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Hi Girls:
I am pretty much an open book. Raised a Roman Catholic, I became used to confessing my sins to a perfect stranger (priest). So, This topic like others I treat like Dr. Ruth, my idol!
I knew 7 years ago that when I told my spouse (coming out) it would be the total elimination of anything personal between us. After all, in fairness, she like the majority of people are not raised to be accepting of too many variations. Especially, in the bedroom and within the marriage itself as well.
Our comfort zones that we build brick by mental brick, do not include too much variation from what we already have been exposed to while in childhood. We expect to maintain these comfort zones throughout life and do so while paying a substantial emotional and experiential price.
What I did find out from this is that it is like going off a major drug. Recent studies of the brain when on certain drugs, compared to a brain when "in love," generate comparable brain activity. That is, neuroscientists have found many similarities in the brain when compared during the drug high or the feeling of love.
Wow! Who knew!
So, anyway, we are together in all other aspects except for anything dealing with emotional demonstrations in any form pretty much. There has been a few simple hugs and kisses but simple and not involved. No deep seated expression of emotion for the most part.
I want to point out that many people have lived alone for a lifetime and found that it was okay for them. They found that they could participate in life without giving into carnal desires in any form.
Not just religious clergy mind you, but just everyday people that decided it was not for them. Biological males see the world in a physical sense, while females, see the world in a spiritual sense. This is well known among those that study such matters. Explaining how an average man ends up married to a woman that is consider far above the average. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." "Thoughts are in the mind."
So we have agreed not to disagree on this subject of sex. This is only because the spouse has chosen not to talk about it out of ignorance. She does not know what I am thinking, only that I have a closet full of clothing reserved for the female sex and they do not fit her.
She must on her own make the determination that she wants to talk about or consider it as in my opinion, by law, she is the biological female in the household and with that comes specific rights and privileges that cannot simply be dismissed.
I respect that and have not made any endeavors to change the status quo so as to benefit my own interests.
Hugs
Danielle Marie
I am pretty much an open book. Raised a Roman Catholic, I became used to confessing my sins to a perfect stranger (priest). So, This topic like others I treat like Dr. Ruth, my idol!
I knew 7 years ago that when I told my spouse (coming out) it would be the total elimination of anything personal between us. After all, in fairness, she like the majority of people are not raised to be accepting of too many variations. Especially, in the bedroom and within the marriage itself as well.
Our comfort zones that we build brick by mental brick, do not include too much variation from what we already have been exposed to while in childhood. We expect to maintain these comfort zones throughout life and do so while paying a substantial emotional and experiential price.
What I did find out from this is that it is like going off a major drug. Recent studies of the brain when on certain drugs, compared to a brain when "in love," generate comparable brain activity. That is, neuroscientists have found many similarities in the brain when compared during the drug high or the feeling of love.
Wow! Who knew!
So, anyway, we are together in all other aspects except for anything dealing with emotional demonstrations in any form pretty much. There has been a few simple hugs and kisses but simple and not involved. No deep seated expression of emotion for the most part.
I want to point out that many people have lived alone for a lifetime and found that it was okay for them. They found that they could participate in life without giving into carnal desires in any form.
Not just religious clergy mind you, but just everyday people that decided it was not for them. Biological males see the world in a physical sense, while females, see the world in a spiritual sense. This is well known among those that study such matters. Explaining how an average man ends up married to a woman that is consider far above the average. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." "Thoughts are in the mind."
So we have agreed not to disagree on this subject of sex. This is only because the spouse has chosen not to talk about it out of ignorance. She does not know what I am thinking, only that I have a closet full of clothing reserved for the female sex and they do not fit her.
She must on her own make the determination that she wants to talk about or consider it as in my opinion, by law, she is the biological female in the household and with that comes specific rights and privileges that cannot simply be dismissed.
I respect that and have not made any endeavors to change the status quo so as to benefit my own interests.
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Make the most of every day!
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ShamrockFaerie(SO)
- E-mail address not valid - Contact Admin
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 10:00 am
- Location: Roanoke, VA
I'm so sad to hear all of these stories about diminishing sex and intimacy in relationships that prior to the introduction of (or escalation of) dressing had been healthy and happy relationships.
I've been thinking alot about this.... Perhaps the reason why so many have experienced a diminished intimacy with their spouses is the sense of betrayal that the wife feels. Now, I'm not talking about those who were open with their spouse before getting married about crossdressing and transgender issues. Those wives knew what they were getting into from the beginning and decided, for whatever reasons they might have, that the dressing was something they could at least tolerate, and many not only tolerate, but accept and participate and even enjoy their spouse's crossdressing. No.... I'm talking about women like myself who were kept in the dark for years about something as fundemental as who their spouse actually is.
Imagine, for a moment, that the tables were turned. You're a heterosexual man and you meet a beautiful, feminine, nurturing woman and fall in love. You share the intimate details of your life with this woman. She is the picture of femininity, a girly-girl, if you will. You make a commitment to be honest and faithful, and eventually, you choose to share your lives together. You get married, have kids, and then, in what seems to be a sudden moment of revelation, she shaves her head, puts on a false moustache and goatee, straps down her breasts, puts on a shirt, tie, and suit, and tells you she feels the "man inside" and wants to present herself as a man. Not only that, but she tells you that she gets sexual arousal from being dressed as a man and she wants you to make love to her while she is dressed and behaving as such. To you, this is a sudden and dramatic change, but she tells you that it's the way she's been her whole life, that she's been putting on a feminine "front" for you, and that the general perception you had of your girly-girl wife has all been a lie.
You might be able to get past the trust issues that arise from such a revelation. Of course it would take time. But as a heterosexual man, you may not be able to accomodate her fantasy of experiencing sex in a masculine way. You may be totally and completely turned off by her presentation of hersef as a masculine figure. Do you love your wife any less? No. Of course you don't. But are you sexually stimulated by her in the same way you were before? Almost certainly the answer to that question would be "no", unless you were bisexual and were also sexually attracted to men. And chances are that on top of ALL of that, your insecurities would start to show themselves. Are you really the man of the house? Does her desire to dress like and behave like a man stem from you not being enough of a man for her? Is she attracted to you, or does she just want to emulate you? If you have sex with her while she is dressed as a man, does that make you gay, or anything close to it? Is SHE gay? Does she want to sleep with women? Is she using you as a "cover" to hide from the world? Can you ever believe anything she says to you again? Are there more secrets you don't know about? All of these questions would probably be circling in your head all at once. You would be overwhelmed, worried, stressed out, anxious..... Not exactly feeling so sexy, if you know what I mean.
I guess I'm really lucky to be bisexual (never thought I'd say that, exactly) because I love Joe and Jennifer equally, both emotionally AND sexually. I'm able to do that, obviously, because I'm equally attracted to both men and women and have no hang-ups about "does this make me a lesbian?" or anything of that sort. However, it's hard to feel sexy and attractive if you suddenly discover that you've been lied to or had secrets kept from you by the person who is supposed to be 100% honest with you about everything. It's hard to look that person who lied to you in the eye, much less make love to them. Once you work past that initial feeling of betrayal, then you have to firgure out whether or not you can participate sexually with crossdressing in the picture, and frankly, most heterosexual women are totally freaked out by the thought of having sex with another woman..... even if the other "woman" is not a biological woman, just as most heterosexual men are not exactly "down" with having sex with other men (or women who resemble men). It's just a fact of life and sexuality.
What I will say about crossdressing is that I, personally, as a spouse of a crossdresser, want my husband to be happy. I can always tell when Joe needs to be Jennifer for awhile, because he gets mean, on edge, and generally difficult to live with for about a week prior to fully dressing with wig, makeup, body hair removal, and everything. Once he dresses, he seems much happier, at ease, and generally more relaxed. Anything that helps him that much in such a dramatic fashion, I'm all for it. Thankfully, I'm able to enjoy the sexual part of it as well, but honestly, from the bottom of my heart.... I love my husband enough that even if I WASN'T OK with the sexual part of it, I would never dream of denying him the right to dress, talk, or behave in any way that makes him happy, even if that means stepping out of my comfort zone. I love him unconditionally. Now, if he ever decided to transition.... To completely become a woman (which he has never expressed a desire to do).... Well, that would be a different story, because I did marry a man, with "man" parts, who could father children (hopefully more than the 2 beautiful daughters we already have), and I would have to seriously alter everything about my life view and my goals and plans for my life and family to make something like that work. So if that were to happen, I do think our marriage (and thus, our sex life) would end. But up to that point, I stand my by man..... Even if he's wearing a dress and calling himself Jennifer. I stand by him in our family life, our financial life, our professional life, and our sexual life, and that's the way it will stay.
It makes me sad to see that so many people have experienced pain and broken families because of this issue, but I have to say that I understand why it happens. I just thank God every single day that my family is not dealing with that, and I pray that eventually we will all be able to love and accept our spouses and family members for who they are, no matter what the circumstances. Until that day, I'll continue to love and support my husband and raise my family. I'll continue to enjoy great sex with both Joe AND Jennifer. I'll continue to develop my intimate relationship with my spouse and work toward being able to trust him again. And I'll continue our "alternativve lifestyle" with pride and admiration for the love and honesty we now share in our family.
I've been thinking alot about this.... Perhaps the reason why so many have experienced a diminished intimacy with their spouses is the sense of betrayal that the wife feels. Now, I'm not talking about those who were open with their spouse before getting married about crossdressing and transgender issues. Those wives knew what they were getting into from the beginning and decided, for whatever reasons they might have, that the dressing was something they could at least tolerate, and many not only tolerate, but accept and participate and even enjoy their spouse's crossdressing. No.... I'm talking about women like myself who were kept in the dark for years about something as fundemental as who their spouse actually is.
Imagine, for a moment, that the tables were turned. You're a heterosexual man and you meet a beautiful, feminine, nurturing woman and fall in love. You share the intimate details of your life with this woman. She is the picture of femininity, a girly-girl, if you will. You make a commitment to be honest and faithful, and eventually, you choose to share your lives together. You get married, have kids, and then, in what seems to be a sudden moment of revelation, she shaves her head, puts on a false moustache and goatee, straps down her breasts, puts on a shirt, tie, and suit, and tells you she feels the "man inside" and wants to present herself as a man. Not only that, but she tells you that she gets sexual arousal from being dressed as a man and she wants you to make love to her while she is dressed and behaving as such. To you, this is a sudden and dramatic change, but she tells you that it's the way she's been her whole life, that she's been putting on a feminine "front" for you, and that the general perception you had of your girly-girl wife has all been a lie.
You might be able to get past the trust issues that arise from such a revelation. Of course it would take time. But as a heterosexual man, you may not be able to accomodate her fantasy of experiencing sex in a masculine way. You may be totally and completely turned off by her presentation of hersef as a masculine figure. Do you love your wife any less? No. Of course you don't. But are you sexually stimulated by her in the same way you were before? Almost certainly the answer to that question would be "no", unless you were bisexual and were also sexually attracted to men. And chances are that on top of ALL of that, your insecurities would start to show themselves. Are you really the man of the house? Does her desire to dress like and behave like a man stem from you not being enough of a man for her? Is she attracted to you, or does she just want to emulate you? If you have sex with her while she is dressed as a man, does that make you gay, or anything close to it? Is SHE gay? Does she want to sleep with women? Is she using you as a "cover" to hide from the world? Can you ever believe anything she says to you again? Are there more secrets you don't know about? All of these questions would probably be circling in your head all at once. You would be overwhelmed, worried, stressed out, anxious..... Not exactly feeling so sexy, if you know what I mean.
I guess I'm really lucky to be bisexual (never thought I'd say that, exactly) because I love Joe and Jennifer equally, both emotionally AND sexually. I'm able to do that, obviously, because I'm equally attracted to both men and women and have no hang-ups about "does this make me a lesbian?" or anything of that sort. However, it's hard to feel sexy and attractive if you suddenly discover that you've been lied to or had secrets kept from you by the person who is supposed to be 100% honest with you about everything. It's hard to look that person who lied to you in the eye, much less make love to them. Once you work past that initial feeling of betrayal, then you have to firgure out whether or not you can participate sexually with crossdressing in the picture, and frankly, most heterosexual women are totally freaked out by the thought of having sex with another woman..... even if the other "woman" is not a biological woman, just as most heterosexual men are not exactly "down" with having sex with other men (or women who resemble men). It's just a fact of life and sexuality.
What I will say about crossdressing is that I, personally, as a spouse of a crossdresser, want my husband to be happy. I can always tell when Joe needs to be Jennifer for awhile, because he gets mean, on edge, and generally difficult to live with for about a week prior to fully dressing with wig, makeup, body hair removal, and everything. Once he dresses, he seems much happier, at ease, and generally more relaxed. Anything that helps him that much in such a dramatic fashion, I'm all for it. Thankfully, I'm able to enjoy the sexual part of it as well, but honestly, from the bottom of my heart.... I love my husband enough that even if I WASN'T OK with the sexual part of it, I would never dream of denying him the right to dress, talk, or behave in any way that makes him happy, even if that means stepping out of my comfort zone. I love him unconditionally. Now, if he ever decided to transition.... To completely become a woman (which he has never expressed a desire to do).... Well, that would be a different story, because I did marry a man, with "man" parts, who could father children (hopefully more than the 2 beautiful daughters we already have), and I would have to seriously alter everything about my life view and my goals and plans for my life and family to make something like that work. So if that were to happen, I do think our marriage (and thus, our sex life) would end. But up to that point, I stand my by man..... Even if he's wearing a dress and calling himself Jennifer. I stand by him in our family life, our financial life, our professional life, and our sexual life, and that's the way it will stay.
It makes me sad to see that so many people have experienced pain and broken families because of this issue, but I have to say that I understand why it happens. I just thank God every single day that my family is not dealing with that, and I pray that eventually we will all be able to love and accept our spouses and family members for who they are, no matter what the circumstances. Until that day, I'll continue to love and support my husband and raise my family. I'll continue to enjoy great sex with both Joe AND Jennifer. I'll continue to develop my intimate relationship with my spouse and work toward being able to trust him again. And I'll continue our "alternativve lifestyle" with pride and admiration for the love and honesty we now share in our family.
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
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Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
Hi Tiffany,
I definitely read with much interest your post!!! You, as if you don't already know, are unique among women (GG's)! We can only hope your SO realizes just how lucky he is! A lot of my sisters here in this sorority would kill for this kind of relationship and as you said you see a lot of sadness and virtual lifelong suffering - for the cause - if you will!!! Most just can not project into the female psych to understand the "why do "they" (the wife = GG) see "us" as such a threat to the relationship?!"
Danielle, (Hi hon! hope you are back to stay for a while - I missed you!) Anyway she said that we build virtually brick by brick over a lifetime a certain comfort level - but some one has to hand us the bricks and someone has to help us lay our the foundation and the plans for the final structure as it develops. Some end up very, very narrow while others like yours and (bless my love - SL) are very wide and open!!!!!
I will take exception with one aspect of your treatise! If I interpreted what you were saying, I think you give males too much credit for complexity!!!
To quote the somewhat well known Country Philosopher Jeff Foxworthy, "men are not complex just look at the old guy in the walker in the nursing home, shuffling down the hall, he is not different from the single, 24 year old redneck who pulls up to a "joint" in his old pick-up truck, they both want the same thing - a cold beer and to see something naked!" 
That is about a complex as most guys get!! 
However, when you throw into the mix a CD/TG/TS and it is my humble opinion that things change -radically!!!! We have a somewhat - hell! a considerable higher level of complexity - of that there can be NO DOUBT! Trying to find a balance within ourselves to not only maintain some level of sanity in trying to deal with the complexities of having both male and female "issues" is one of the most challenging aspects of survival! The operative word being BALANCE and it can be tough, tougher than some can deal with! Having a non-accepting spouse and/or family and coming to grips with the fact that "it ain't going away!" that is tough to damn near impossible to deal with. It is like a teeter-totter a fulcrum and the male on one end and the female + "others" on the other end. Balance is very, very difficult to achieve when "the other" end keeps piling on.
Anyway, thanks ladies for your time and caring and making this forum the oasis it is for a lot of thirsty travellers on this "veil of tears!"
Love you all,
Virginia
I definitely read with much interest your post!!! You, as if you don't already know, are unique among women (GG's)! We can only hope your SO realizes just how lucky he is! A lot of my sisters here in this sorority would kill for this kind of relationship and as you said you see a lot of sadness and virtual lifelong suffering - for the cause - if you will!!! Most just can not project into the female psych to understand the "why do "they" (the wife = GG) see "us" as such a threat to the relationship?!"
Danielle, (Hi hon! hope you are back to stay for a while - I missed you!) Anyway she said that we build virtually brick by brick over a lifetime a certain comfort level - but some one has to hand us the bricks and someone has to help us lay our the foundation and the plans for the final structure as it develops. Some end up very, very narrow while others like yours and (bless my love - SL) are very wide and open!!!!!
I will take exception with one aspect of your treatise! If I interpreted what you were saying, I think you give males too much credit for complexity!!!
To quote the somewhat well known Country Philosopher Jeff Foxworthy, "men are not complex just look at the old guy in the walker in the nursing home, shuffling down the hall, he is not different from the single, 24 year old redneck who pulls up to a "joint" in his old pick-up truck, they both want the same thing - a cold beer and to see something naked!" That is about a complex as most guys get!! However, when you throw into the mix a CD/TG/TS and it is my humble opinion that things change -radically!!!! We have a somewhat - hell! a considerable higher level of complexity - of that there can be NO DOUBT! Trying to find a balance within ourselves to not only maintain some level of sanity in trying to deal with the complexities of having both male and female "issues" is one of the most challenging aspects of survival! The operative word being BALANCE and it can be tough, tougher than some can deal with! Having a non-accepting spouse and/or family and coming to grips with the fact that "it ain't going away!" that is tough to damn near impossible to deal with. It is like a teeter-totter a fulcrum and the male on one end and the female + "others" on the other end. Balance is very, very difficult to achieve when "the other" end keeps piling on.
Anyway, thanks ladies for your time and caring and making this forum the oasis it is for a lot of thirsty travellers on this "veil of tears!"
Love you all,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Hi Virginia:
"I will take exception with one aspect of your treatise! If I interpreted what you were saying, I think you give males too much credit for complexity!!! Shame on you To quote the somewhat well know Country Philosopher Jeff Foxworthy,
"men are not complex just look at the old guy in the walker in the nursing home, shuffling down the hall, he is not different from the single, 24 year old redneck who pulls up to a "joint" in his old pick-up truck, they both want the same thing - a cold beer and to see something naked!" That is about a complex as most guys get!"....
Fortunately for everyone, that type of male is not really the majority. They just seem to prevail with all of the "noise" that they make. The quiet, conservative ones are out there and find "carnal" aspects not as predominant in their lives.
Doctors, lawyers, business men with advanced degrees and alike, share the common aspect of a more refined approach to the subject on most occasions. I would like to think that only a very small minority of men engage in such bar room antics. Fortunately, I have such conservative friends at the University. What they do in the confines of their own home of course is none of my business. Get wild and crazy like me!
Time and a place for such actions and activities I suppose. I reserve my "action" time at home. You never hear from the quiet ones too much, nature of the beast I suppose.
I think that good bad or indifferent, one of the two major sexes had to be wired to be just a little more aggressive or nothing would ever get done along that line of thinking.
But, I also think that lately, the [male] of our society has taken a few extra hits for being [male]! No one wants to see two young boys beating each other senseless in the school yard but, unfortunately, there are going to be those times when such violence with erupt. After all, we cannot have good without the bad as a reference.
Hugs
Danielle Marie
"Always around, just doing more listening than talking lately.
"I will take exception with one aspect of your treatise! If I interpreted what you were saying, I think you give males too much credit for complexity!!! Shame on you To quote the somewhat well know Country Philosopher Jeff Foxworthy,
"men are not complex just look at the old guy in the walker in the nursing home, shuffling down the hall, he is not different from the single, 24 year old redneck who pulls up to a "joint" in his old pick-up truck, they both want the same thing - a cold beer and to see something naked!" That is about a complex as most guys get!"....
Fortunately for everyone, that type of male is not really the majority. They just seem to prevail with all of the "noise" that they make. The quiet, conservative ones are out there and find "carnal" aspects not as predominant in their lives.
Doctors, lawyers, business men with advanced degrees and alike, share the common aspect of a more refined approach to the subject on most occasions. I would like to think that only a very small minority of men engage in such bar room antics. Fortunately, I have such conservative friends at the University. What they do in the confines of their own home of course is none of my business. Get wild and crazy like me!
Time and a place for such actions and activities I suppose. I reserve my "action" time at home. You never hear from the quiet ones too much, nature of the beast I suppose.
I think that good bad or indifferent, one of the two major sexes had to be wired to be just a little more aggressive or nothing would ever get done along that line of thinking.
But, I also think that lately, the [male] of our society has taken a few extra hits for being [male]! No one wants to see two young boys beating each other senseless in the school yard but, unfortunately, there are going to be those times when such violence with erupt. After all, we cannot have good without the bad as a reference.
Hugs
Danielle Marie
"Always around, just doing more listening than talking
lately.Make the most of every day!
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Penni SO
- Miss Emerald Goddess
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:10 pm
- Location: Australia
Hi ya all,What saddens me about many issues in a relationship,is that we do stumble into area's that are very difficult to cope with,especially when it involves sexuality...unfortunately many people have difficulty talking about sex at the best of times....when the sexual relationship difficulty card plays in a relationship to often we ignore it or stew in our minds...before we know it a gap has formed...untreated that gap widens an dwidens,before what was in the past a healthy sexual relationship for you ,then becomes a gap of normality of not having any sexual relationship at all.
It is easier for couples to roll over and face away from each other than to sit down and face each other and talk about the problems they are having with their sexual relationship.
Sure many factors come into abstaining from sex,illness,injury and so on....however touch is a very improtant part of our makeup and we as humans need to be touched,even if it is just a cuddle..its all very important,even when the person is ill or injured,a touch of a hand on the face,a massage etc,helps them feel as though they are still involved at some level.
I feel and again it is my own opinions that a couple needs that tenderness,I agree it does'nt have to be sex or penetration,but touch and caressing and still being able to come together united ,sharing sensuality is a good thing.It helps us to be happy within ourself as well as a couple.It helps with our identity as a woman and as a man,it even gives us self esteem,not to mention the endomorphins that surge through your body.
I don't think any couple should just give up on intimacy ,it is a very important part of our lives...if there is trouble for one reason or another talk about it,if you need to seek help then seek it out.
Hugs Penny
Supporting wife of Transexual partner
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KimberlyS
- Site Administrator
- Posts: 3341
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:01 pm
- Location: North Central USA, SD
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Andi L
- Miss Sapphire Goddess
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:21 pm
- Location: Any womens store
Males Complex????
Two parter........
Danielle, Sorry to disagree . I am a genetic male professional and I don't know many men who are not carnal beasts in their makeup, mentally undressing every GG they see and talking to each other about it. Formal education is not the positive influence, Proper upbringing is, and that doesn't happen so much anymore. In our current culture, anything a caring parent might teach a child about respecting women is heavily countered by TV, movies, internet, video games, peer pressure, etc. I think a lot of the worlds problems would go away if all males were dosed with estrogen between the ages of 12 and 32. I'm sure the female population would fare a lot better without sex hungry bulls trying to take advantage of them. Most men do behave badly, they see it - they want it - end of story. We tried hard to teach our boys differently and hope they follow through as caring respectful individuals toward both men and women.
Penny, You are right on about intimacy and touching. At 63 our "sex" life has been dead for years (not because of the CDing) due to physical discomfort for both of us. I do miss it but I now really enjoy the hand holding, kissing, caressing of neck, arms etc. There is great comfort in this level of intimacy and we are more married today than we were 43 years ago. This kind of intimacy makes sharing so much easier and we communicate much easier because we're both more i tune with each others tenderness. Thanks for pointing this out to all of us.
Danielle, Sorry to disagree . I am a genetic male professional and I don't know many men who are not carnal beasts in their makeup, mentally undressing every GG they see and talking to each other about it. Formal education is not the positive influence, Proper upbringing is, and that doesn't happen so much anymore. In our current culture, anything a caring parent might teach a child about respecting women is heavily countered by TV, movies, internet, video games, peer pressure, etc. I think a lot of the worlds problems would go away if all males were dosed with estrogen between the ages of 12 and 32. I'm sure the female population would fare a lot better without sex hungry bulls trying to take advantage of them. Most men do behave badly, they see it - they want it - end of story. We tried hard to teach our boys differently and hope they follow through as caring respectful individuals toward both men and women.
Penny, You are right on about intimacy and touching. At 63 our "sex" life has been dead for years (not because of the CDing) due to physical discomfort for both of us. I do miss it but I now really enjoy the hand holding, kissing, caressing of neck, arms etc. There is great comfort in this level of intimacy and we are more married today than we were 43 years ago. This kind of intimacy makes sharing so much easier and we communicate much easier because we're both more i tune with each others tenderness. Thanks for pointing this out to all of us.
Hugs,
Andi
Andi
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Danielle La Belle
- Account Deactivated at Member's Request
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:49 am
- Location: SC
Hi Girls:
"Danielle, Sorry to disagree . I am a genetic male professional and I don't know many men who are not carnal beasts in their makeup, mentally undressing every GG they see and talking to each other about it."
Yes, it is always possible that you do not know many men that are not carnal beasts at some level. Consider during your lifetime just how many men you really meet and really get to know. Compare that to say, the US Population, 300 million. Not all male adults of course, but a rather large number none the less.
Never discount the fact that in general statements there are unlimited possibilities and variables unseen. As a species, it is well documented on a scientific level, our functional nature to reproduce as it should be based on available statistics.
Just how many male gynecologists lust after every woman that comes in for an exam? I doubt seriously that this is the case or else women in general would not have sought out such a person for this area of medicine. We trust that professional people, and that is a very wide description that can include people in many walks of life, are going to be more professional in their manner and behavior.
I do not want to overlook or discount those of the male population that consider themselves in better control that what we see at the carnal level of behavior. They exist thank goodness, they are the people that we count on in many professions to be "above" such desires outside of their own home and family life.
All animals effectively express some form of affection for their mate, while they may not be aware of this expression as such. Humans, on the other hand have the wonderful consciousness that makes us aware of our own behavior and reflection in the mirror.
I agree that various forms of touching etc between consenting adults is very much part of our psychological makeup. Whether we really need this to survive vs. want this in our life makes a difference.
A recent medical article examining the human brain when in love vs. on a high from a specific drug, was in comparison extremely similar. The study concluded that with the brain scans done of the test subjects, there was remarkable similarities and little difference to be found.
Thoughts are electrical impulses that permit us the illusion of many physical attributes we attribute to our physical life cycle. Without them, we would not exist as we know of ourselves today. Good, bad or indifferent, there is adequate scientific data that supports this.
For me, it is not about being right. It is merely an observation. After all, right and wrong are in the mind of the beholder. That varies rather often more than we would like to think.
Hugs
Danielle Marie
"Danielle, Sorry to disagree . I am a genetic male professional and I don't know many men who are not carnal beasts in their makeup, mentally undressing every GG they see and talking to each other about it."
Yes, it is always possible that you do not know many men that are not carnal beasts at some level. Consider during your lifetime just how many men you really meet and really get to know. Compare that to say, the US Population, 300 million. Not all male adults of course, but a rather large number none the less.
Never discount the fact that in general statements there are unlimited possibilities and variables unseen. As a species, it is well documented on a scientific level, our functional nature to reproduce as it should be based on available statistics.
Just how many male gynecologists lust after every woman that comes in for an exam? I doubt seriously that this is the case or else women in general would not have sought out such a person for this area of medicine. We trust that professional people, and that is a very wide description that can include people in many walks of life, are going to be more professional in their manner and behavior.
I do not want to overlook or discount those of the male population that consider themselves in better control that what we see at the carnal level of behavior. They exist thank goodness, they are the people that we count on in many professions to be "above" such desires outside of their own home and family life.
All animals effectively express some form of affection for their mate, while they may not be aware of this expression as such. Humans, on the other hand have the wonderful consciousness that makes us aware of our own behavior and reflection in the mirror.
I agree that various forms of touching etc between consenting adults is very much part of our psychological makeup. Whether we really need this to survive vs. want this in our life makes a difference.
A recent medical article examining the human brain when in love vs. on a high from a specific drug, was in comparison extremely similar. The study concluded that with the brain scans done of the test subjects, there was remarkable similarities and little difference to be found.
Thoughts are electrical impulses that permit us the illusion of many physical attributes we attribute to our physical life cycle. Without them, we would not exist as we know of ourselves today. Good, bad or indifferent, there is adequate scientific data that supports this.
For me, it is not about being right. It is merely an observation. After all, right and wrong are in the mind of the beholder. That varies rather often more than we would like to think.
Hugs
Danielle Marie
Make the most of every day!