The Butterfly, Not Being Born, Hurts.

How are you dealing with or handling this aspect of your life?

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CJ
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Post by CJ »

Hi all,

Kimberly,

Thanks for your input. 8) Your view of the matter has a lot to do with interactions within the couple but, trust me, that's not the real issue for me; Roxanne, my SO, is actually very accepting (or very willing to be accepting) of my CD'ing, even though she's still in the "exploratory phase," seeking out her own limits. No, it runs deeper. It may be that, as you suggest, there are many ways to be TG'ed but I think one particular way may fit a certain individual better than others.

Taking my own case, I realize there's a strong (yet repressed) element of transsexualism in my heart and soul. For me, it's not so much what women wear as it is what they are that I envy. Yesterday, at my workplace weekly staff meeting, I showed one of my (male) colleagues a photo of a gorgeous woman in an ad for some fetish clothing shop or other and told him, "I'd kill for a body like that." Surprised, he said, "well, I think we sorta might have a different view of women." Yeah, we sorta might have, I guess. :?

This transsexual streak may be what Gracie saw in me when we spoke over the phone during all those months before we ever met face to face. But, meeting face to face, I think it became obvious to her that, because I have absolutely zero effeminacy in my behaviour, I may not, after all, be a transsexual. The question still plagues me.

Wearing a feminine top or pantyhose under my jeans just doesn't do it for me. Oh, I think it used to, at some point, for sure. But not anymore. Who I am hasn't seen the light of day in ages. I'm quick to reassure Roxanne that this has little to do with her, but perhaps it does. That I haven't dressed (from head to toe) since we've been going out together is probably an indication that this is the case. But it doesn't matter; this hiatus is, for me, akin to a period of gestation. I'm taking the opportunity to mull over my own needs and desires, to try to clear the brush of my sometimes chaotic emotions. I'm taking this time off from "CJ-in-the-real-world" to see if "CJ" is really who I believe I am (or am meant to be). The mountain, after all, is clearer to the climber from a plain. Still, absence does, indeed, make the heart grow fonder. I guess it's easy to state plainly thus: I miss me. And that yearning is made more powerful by the springtime onslaught of a world of (possibly self-)denied possibilities.

Yes, there's more than one way to be transgendered. But there's only one way for me to be who I am, and that's as "me." That's not happening yet. It may happen in the future. Or it may not. Either way, there's much (as Absaroka has pointed out) to be thankful for, nonetheless. I've got a healthy body, a healthy mind, a healthy spirit, a healthy sense of humour, and a somewhat well-balanced sense of my own self-worth. Things could be worse. I could be in Jeannie's shoes, for example. :wink:

Thanks, all of you, for your thoughts on the matter. 8) It does me a world of good just to be able to bounce around (and air out) the darker corners of my own mind once in a blue moon.

Love,
CJ
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Sylvia H
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Post by Sylvia H »

Cj,

I concur with your present feelings. But all our lives, don't we all have imaginations that take us where we cannot go? I choose to go as far as I can and hope I'm smart enough to know when to quit. #-o

Sometimes being touched by the beauty IS the experience though we often do not get to actively participate in the way we would like.

If it all ended tomorrow, I am beyond ecstatic for having had the opportunity to be even be here.

xox
Sylvia
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KimberlyS
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Post by KimberlyS »

CJ, I see a couple of points I would like to comment on.
While I agree I can feel the internal searching that you have been doing in many of your posts, I will go out on a limb here and say much of the searching is being affected in some way by Roxanne. You are in a relationship and your SO will have some affect in everything you do. And while you may be more on the TS end of the TG spectrum and myself more on the CD end, we both have things that we feel we are and do not feel we can be or do. We must come to a balance within our selves that we can live with.

Who we are What we want out of life
--------------------- ^ --------------------------------

And yes I do believe you were struggling with much you are currently struggling with before Roxanne, but I also see her little affect may be causing a trickling down snow balling affect. IMHO her acceptance or not, her life, her family, her friend, her job, her friends, and much much more all come into the equation. Roxanne may be having a life re-evaluation being taking place within you. Or just ignore me and call me completely wrong. And I am sure I am wrong somewhere. Hey I am a weird CDer and do not care so I may be writing non-sense.

As for who / what you are only you can figure it out. One thing that helped me a lot was to decide it did not really matter who I was completely. We all change as we go through life. I decided who I was currently and what I wanted out of life at this point in time so I could begin to live my life instead of constantly wondering what the end was going to be. Life is a journey and not a destination. So enjoy the journey a bit more as it may help you find your path. It sounds like you have a wonderful SO. Decide to make her part of your journey and then continue it knowing it will change as you go.

As for the process of figuring out what works for you and Roxanne, I did not expect a lot of what I did to fit you. You need to figure out between you and Roxanne what you will try. From your more recent past posts you seem more like you need to be in full femme attire. I see more maybe getting out some on your own nearer to home, which actually is something I do also. And maybe the two of you getting out of the area so you can get into your femme zone and Roxanne can get a feel of you like that and you with her. Sometimes the best way to see if things work is to try them out in a safe test environment. Then the task of moving from test and how to put it into our daily lives. We can bounce things around in our heads a lot. But what really happens when we do it may be something and usually is something different.

Just my ramblings. Use what may help you. Discard the rest.

kimberlys-cd
joe in a skirt
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I am a physically male person that likes to wear feminine clothes at times.
Just trying keep a balance for my self along with keeping my wife and kids in mind.
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Anita
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Post by Anita »

Hi CJ--
A very heart-felt post, there. I can't help but think back to another post of yours some months back, and the same issue was being approached. I like the idea of you biding your time:
I'm taking the opportunity to mull over my own needs and desires, to try to clear the brush of my sometimes chaotic emotions. I'm taking this time off from "CJ-in-the-real-world" to see if "CJ" is really who I believe I am (or am meant to be)
.

That is the glass-half-full answer to the original post that started this thread, I'd say.

Still, as scary as it may be for both Roxanne and yourself, I see you taking some time in that distant city away from anyone who knows you, who might see. There is a time to analyze "CJ-in-the-real-world," and then there is a time to BE her, and see how the two images match or don't match.

It's scary for Roxanne, because she has to allow you to find answers that may not be comfortable on first hearing. It's scary for you because it goes outside the relationship, just for a moment. Then you bring what you've found back into it. It doesn't have to be a disruptive separation, (Roxanne can go along, if she wants to) but it does require going out into the borderlands.

My thoughts are with you, whatever path you're pursuing right now.
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Virginia
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Post by Virginia »

CJ, you know hon, you made a statement, but you left off the codicil to it! Absence makes the heart grow fonder --------- but only if there is correspondence!

You are corresponding with CJ on a different plane. It does not necessarily have to be physical, it can be esoteric. I think you are maintaining that aspect of you "correspondence." She is there, just not in a physical sense.

I know that Virginia and I have arrived at a balance. She does not have to be "dressed" in any manner of speaking to be a very influential aspect of my existence and my relationship with other people. I think that that may well be where CJ is but she unlike Virginia, is stifled in the dressing aspect. Where Virginia knows she can dress anytime she wants. CJ does not currently have that luxury.

I know you won't forget, "Virginia's Challenge," "what is CJ worth to you?"
Hope you do not have to take that "test" again, well, at least until you are ready!

Love you!!!!

Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
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Curly(SO)
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Post by Curly(SO) »

CJ....

I read your post with sadness but didn't know how to respond....certainly lots to think about there. I came across this essay and thought it might be relevant, although it isn't TG related....it kinda struck a cord with me and your situation....hope it helps. :)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=12643378

Love,
Curly (--)
Women: scientifically proven to be right even when they’re wrong.
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Jeannie
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I heard that crack about my shoes!

Post by Jeannie »

Hi CJ
Most people have no idea of who or what they really are. We basically all stumble through life and then die.You are a wonderful person Hon and I know everyone here would agree. You are more together than all the people here in Waterbury. These internal struggles are a pain in the backside arent they?
As for being in my shoes. You should be so lucky! First,they're all pretty freakin' cute and if you had a thought process like moi you'de never have an existential crisis. Alfred E. Newman said it best. "What,me worry?"
I overpaid my estimated tax this year CJ. I got back $6000 bucks. I told Mini"Take what you want and send me the rest."She sent $600 dollars. Yippee! I put it towards the $1200 dollar bill I got from my accountant for doing the taxes for Mini, the shop,Katie and John Paul. If any of you gals need a brutal negotiator just call me. I take no prisoners but myself.
Hugs. I have to get back down the shop.

Love
Jeannie
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CJ
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Post by CJ »

Hi all,

Thanks again for the input. 8)

Virginia,

I understand what you're saying about correspondence. I agree. The "Big 'I'" that yearns to be free is not different, really, than the "Little 'I'" that gets me through my day. The connection is there so I realize I'm never completely invisible, so to speak. Still, once in a while, I hurt. And who said life was free of pain? Oh no, not I! :P

Kimberly, Anita,

Thanks for your posts, gals.

Although the presence of Roxanne in my life (a presence I'm very grateful for) may have something to do with all this, the core issue remains mine alone. I need to figure out, as Virginia so often says, what "CJ" is worth to me. I remember vividly what Kathy--Amanda Bower's wife (and a one-time SO member of this board)--said a few years ago about her attraction to crossdressers: she's put off by CD's who aren't at ease with, and who've yet to reach some peace of mind about, who they are as crossdressers and she's quite taken with those who are and who have. It scares me to think that, even after all this time, I may not be completely at ease with who I am. I think one of the reasons for this is that, obviously, I'm not completely sure who I am (and, here, I can hear Jeannie, up in the peanut gallery, throwing confetti down on me while screaming, "Of course you aren't, you silly cow! Who is?" :lol: ). Well, I still have my fine-bristled brushes in hand and my pots of colourful paint around me; the work of art that is my life is nowhere near finished. I'm still painting. :)

Curly,

I liked the essay. I really did. However, I've found it harder and harder, over the years, to look at my life that way. I used to hold this very Platonic belief that the body is a thing apart from the mind or soul. In Plato's view, the body, far from being "the temple of the soul," is "a prison for the spirit." This worked well for me, this way of seeing, as it was doubly the case, given the fact that my gender dysphoria almost forced me to regard my body as something truly alien to my "true self" (and for a radical instance of this "physical self-alienation," look up Body Integrity Identity Disorder). While it may be that "I am not my body," it would be a mistake to believe that "I am only my mind or brain." Without my body (and, of course, I include my brain as part of my body), I would not have a mind (under normal circumstances, that is). The opposite is true, as well (at least, for me); I cannot have--or be--a mind if I don't first have a body. Brains make minds. In fact, it's what they do best.

I've come to see myself as what I like to call a "brainmindbodysoulheartspirit." Yeah, cumbersome, I know. But much closer to the truth (as I discern it) than saying, "I have--or am--a body" or "I have--or am--a mind." Being a brainmindbodysoulheartspirit has the distinct advantage of, on the one hand, making clear the relationship between what's physical about who I am and what's non-physical about who I am (however conceptual it may be) and, on the other hand, of bypassing the thorny issue of how, exactly, my mind (emotions, thoughts, feelings) influence my body (and vice versa).

Now, I understand what Ms. Sandin is talking about. As a person not only living with, but thriving despite, a physical disability, she has good reason to state the the condition her body's in has no bearing on her sense of self. But she cannot deny that her withered arm is hers and nobody else's. Or, at the very least, she isn't--for some obscure psychological reason--forced to deny that it's hers. This isn't the case with someone who has a transgendered identity. Take someone with a severe enough gender dysphoria and chances are that person will not recognize his body (or those parts of his anatomy that mark his gender) as his own. Further, if Ms. Sandin had been taught to "devalue" herself--as people belonging to sexual or gender minorities are taught to, both directly and indirectly--rather than value herself, she may not have come to feel the same way about her body.

Having said this, Curly, I also understand why you posted the link. There is a definite parallel between Lisa Sandin's body and, for instance, my own. Both bodies can be construed as having the potential to limit the development of a healthy sense of self-esteem. Both bodies can be thought of as potential prisons for our spirit. Yet, they need not be so. But I have to tell you, Curly, it takes a hell of a strong spirit--one that thirsts badly for "freedom in the soul"--to overcome the limits imposed by either a dysfunctional body or an "alien" body. It's questionable whether this can be achieved with little or no support from our social environment (or worse, with active discouragement from our social environment). When those around me will stop seeing me as bizarre, weird, perverted, sinful, or mentally ill, perhaps my body will stop being anathema to me.

Much more room is now made to accommodate people who, like Lisa Sandin, are "differently abled" (a term I loathe, by the way), despite the occasional look of pity she may get from some people. The same is rarely true of people who are "differently gendered" (or differently anything that has to do with differences of the mind rather than of the body). The reason is simple: most people are still labouring under the misconception that an "abnormality" of the body is not under the control of an individual's will while an "abnormality" of the mind is. This is simply not true. And transgendered people, amongst others, know this. But most people still don't. Hence the need for education. That room is made in society for someone because her body is different is a great thing. That no room is made for someone whose mind is different is not such a good thing. Generally, people will find it much easier to deal with visible minorities than with invisible ones. Often, invisible minorities choose to remain invisible precisely because they're keenly aware of the (moral, religious, psychological) censure they'll face should they make their existence known. And the kicker is this: it matters little how morally upright, spiritual, and law-abiding members of some of these invisible minorities may be, they're still seen as defective or dysfunctional by most people who cling to traditional mores and community standards (people who Virginia sometimes calls "the great unwashed masses").

Anyway, sorry, Curly; this whole post is a digression, I think. My point was that Lisa Sandin is a butterfly born. She may be born missing an appendage but her capacity for flight remains unchanged despite it. Her wings (her soul, her spirit) have not been damaged. Some days--not always, but some days--I'm very much aware that my own wings are still glued to my body. And they still abide in darkness. On those days, I hurt. But only on those days. :wink:

Love,
CJ
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