Deception.

[Loretta Ann]

Hi all,

You know what I agree with most everything said here as to why some of us choose to present themselves as a woman. I agreed with those thoughts before they were posted in this thread. I understand the reasons quite clearly, and I have no argument with them.

My point is that I believe that dressing to present as a woman is as much of a closet as those who dress at home. The reason for that is the motivating factor for participating in both of those activities is fear.

I know there are other reasons why some present themselves as a woman, (and again I have no argument with that) but unless one has concurred fear they are controlled by it.

In order to try and live a balanced life, I try and look out for the extremes in everything I do; we all know that on one side the extreme is to be deep in the closet keeping their cross-dressing entirely to themselves.
I will close this post with the question. What is the extreme on the other side?

Darlene.

By the way Allen Those links did not work for me.

[Elizabeth]

Hi Darlene,

I just wanted to clarify that the reason I talked about creditcard debt, for instance, was to show that almost everyone is living a deception of some kind.. My point was that crossdressers who are trying to pass are no different. It is in fact socially acceptable to present yourself as something you are not.

It's kind of a don't ask, don't tell kind of thing. I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone has thier own comfort level of what they want society to think about them, not just about what they wear.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Virginia]

Hi Sis,
Have not been here much with all the chain saws I have to juggle, but this topic in addition to Elizabeth's great news and its early Saturday morning, and I have to add my feelings to this.
You know my attitude - "don't like it - tough!!"
I never thought of my "gift" as a form of decepition. For me, it is, I guess like some of us, when Virginia wants to dress and go out -that is what we do! We don't psycholoanalyse why she wants to dress up and go out or that we are going out to try and deceive/fool anyone. We just "DO IT!"
It feels right, it feels good and we enjoy being ourselves! I refuse to involve myself in trying to delve into the depths of why or who it may offended, screw 'em if they don't like it - I do dress and that to me is all that counts! Yes, I pass, but I really don't care, well like any good girl I do care how I look, but if I pass great, if I get read - so what! I am out for Virginia and as long as she has a good time and accomplishes what she wants that is all that counts!!!!
Love ya' all,
Virginia

[Loretta Ann]

Hi Sis,

It is good to see that you are posting again. I have wondered how you are making out. You have responded to this thread as I suspected you might. And again I understand.

The purpose of this thread is not to argue with anyone. It is simply to present another opinion. Perhaps it is something like playing the devils advocate. It is something for everyone to consider.

It is something to consider when we are encouraging others to join a movement; that is focused on gaining acceptance. When you look at it in those terms it maters not what we think about it. Society is going to judge us by the way they see us. And to top that off you will never get everyone to see it the same way.

And I would suspect that if we all were to adapt the attitude that if you don’t like it screw you, we would be in our right mind to expect the same in return. But again that only affects us if we are expecting acceptance.

Nice chatting with you again Sis.

Elizabeth wrote:

I guess what I am trying to say is that everyone has their own comfort level of what they want society to think about them.

I agree with that statement. We need to allow others that right, and not attempt to force our comfort level on others.

However I have a problem with the statement that:

It is in fact socially acceptable to present yourself as something you are not.

If that were so there should be no reason to worry about ending up looking like a Swiss steak as the result of presenting oneself as a female. There are some things that are just plain unhealthy, and unwise. Like your credit card example. Any one who lives like that (living beyond their means) will end up paying a price.

How about the young lad who misrepresented himself as a girl and had sex with (was it two men) who later murdered him? Was that socially acceptable? It cost him his life. Not that I am implying that murder was a justifiable response. But that it was two examples of unhealthy behavior, which resulted in harsh consequences.

Love Darlene.

[Georgia(SO)]

Ok. I realize that I am way out here in an area that I don't quite understand. But from the outside, what I see is this. There appear to be several types of cross dressers - all on some continuum of some sort or another.

There are the men who like being men and who want to wear *women's* clothing as a man - just like I like to wear jeans and clearly remain female. These guys don't seem to have a female name that they assume, they don't stuff bras or do anything else to assume a female personna. It may be because they like the lace, or its a fetish or whatever, but has little to do with feeling female underneath.

Then there are the guys who have two sides to their personality - a male and a female side. For some, the male side is more dominant, for others the female side is more dominant. These folks tend to have separate identities for the male and female sides - Some are more integrated than others, some folks keep them absolutely distinct from one another. Like my sweetie - *he* is heterosexual, but *she* is also heterosexual and therefore likes men. When *she* is sexual, it is always as a woman and never as a man; when *he* is sexual, it is always as man and never as a woman. (So, as an aside? Is this bi? Or multi-personality?)

Then there are those who really feel that they should have been born a woman and that the male personna they wear to work, etc., is the real false front.

Is that about how it goes? Or am I way off base? And if I'm on target here with admittedly broad categories, does it actually make a glimmer of difference to anyone?


BTW, I was flipping through channels the other day and saw a glimmer of a Larry King Show with a couple of TS's. He asked about danger as TS. She said that it was far more dangerous being a *woman* than being a CDer - that women are far more likely to be attacked because they are women than ya'll are being a man in women's clothes. It does occur to me that if I were to go out wearing some of the outfits my sweetie does when en femme, I would be shunned and/or attacked too. And if I was attacked, it wouldn't be called a Hate Crime - they would say I was dressed as a slut and asking for it.

Back to the grindstone...
-georgia(so)

[Kay(SO)]

My turn to comment! I haven't read all of the posts, just skimmed through them but wanted to add a few thoughts.

Georgia, there are even more varieties on the skew than what you are listing. An example is my husband. When he dresses, it needs to be the entire way or not at all, clear down to the wig, makeup, boobs, etc... however, he doesn't have CDing friends, doesn't want them, is happy and content just being by himself, doesn't use a femme name. Is it more than clothing for him? I would have to say yes. It's about feeling feminine, material, sexual and whole. Just putting on a pair of panties isn't enough for him. I tried to get him to pick a name and he really wasn't into it at all.

Dixie, you brought up the word "comfortable". Again, I think the difference in the word when a woman is wearing jeans and a man wears a dress is that one is leans toward more of an internal feeling and one leans more toward an external feeling. When I wear jeans, it's means nothing to me emotionally or mentally. It's pure physical comfort. My understanding from my husband is that wearing a dress is all encompassing for him. It is comfort on many different levels; more internal than external.

Do I see it as deceit when my husband waltzes down Bourban Street in a dress, all dolled up? Yes and no. He is deceiving the public but being true to himself. In being true to himself, he's not REALLY deceiving the public, he's just being who he is. They may perceive it at deception but I'm not so sure I see it that way after all. Whew, way too much deep thinking for me today!

Kay(SO)