Disorders.

[CJ]

Hi all,

Ah, I understand. Thanks for explaining, Darlene. It's taking me a while but I'm getting to see where you're coming from. I guess we're just coming from different places (in a way, all of us are, eh?).

Hope you have a sunny day, my BC sis!

Elizabeth,

We're not disagreeing; I was out hunting for material to defend your views (with which I very much agree). Well, actually, I guess I was disagreeing to a certain extent, mostly about whether or not someone's transgenderedness is relevant to those of their psychological disturbances that are presumably unrelated to gender issues. I think there is a relation; I'm just not sure it's a causal one. As far as gender variance not being a mental illness, well, I'd have to be crazy not to agree with you there, don't you think?

Love,
CJ

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

Darlene wrote:

In part Elizabeth wrote:

We will never be treated as human beings as long as what we are considered to be a defect. That is my honest opinion.

What do you mean by that statement Elizabeth? Sure we will and are. Human beings have been treated as we are since the beginning of time. Certainly; since the fall of man.

Darlene,

I selected "human beings" to avoid having to be accepted as one gender or the other, just as people. DSM-IV suggests that we are defective, that we need fixing, as human beings, not just as one gender or the other.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Beauty]

Hi,

Wow! I can actually comment on this because I've been diagnosed by my therapist as DSM VI diagonis : 302.85.

I think it's important to have this diagnosis in there because someone who is diagnosed with this does need medical attention and may even need explanations for travel. I think it's also important because of helping someone who needs to go through a series of trials to get things done that will change their body and or livelihood.

So I think it's good to have this one as well as the transvestism fetish diagnosis so a therapist who knows little to nothing about GID can look up the differences. This way this therapist isn't writing a letter for this person to get hormones when they are really happy enough dressing and getting validation without transitioning.

YAY!! I was able to talk with the smart people!

Beauty

[CJ]

Hi all,

Wow, Beauty, you got yourself a 302.85? Now, that really is a big step! It's the door that needed to open for you to examine the possibilities, both legal and therapeutic (or medical), that might be coming your way. Congrats!

You know, as the clinician mentioned in the article I linked to, above, it's not a bad thing to have diagnostic criteria in the DSM for GID and clear guidelines for dealing with transsexualism, especially. Why? Precisely, for reasons both legal (insurance, health coverage, civil status, etc.) as well as medical (referals to specialists such as endocrinologists, etc.).

The diagnosis, far from being an indicator of an illness (as many people outside our community will still believe, anyway), is a departure, a gate opened, allowing you to embark on another leg of the journey that is your life. It's a grand adventure, this "becoming"--it's the only adventure that matters. May you fare well, sister.

Love,
CJ

P.S.

By the way, if you got this diagnostic from the DSM-VI, your crystal ball is much more powerful than mine; the DSM-V is only coming out some time in the next two years. Just razzin' you!

[Elizabeth]

Hi girls,

I just got through reading a really great online article written by a transexual research psycholgist.

It discusses bias in transgendered research and how it always looks at transexualism as something bad that needs to be fixed and that this bias affects the results of the research.

There is also some discussion about why having a number in the DSM should not be considered a good thing for the transgendered. Which of course I promoted earlier in this thread.

http://www.genderpsychology.org/psychol ... model.html

Actually the entire site is really cool so far. Lot of information there.

http://www.genderpsychology.org

[Cathy L. Anderson]

Wow, Beauty, you got yourself a 302.85? Now, that really is a big step! It's the door that needed to open for you to examine the possibilities, both legal and therapeutic (or medical), that might be coming your way. Congrats!

Well that's the first time I've heard of someone being congratulated for receiving an official diagnosis of, what, according to the formal title of the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) would be considered a "mental disorder"!

Don't get me wrong. I know where you're coming from. But I think people are in danger of losing persepective and succumbing to "group think." By that I'm referring to a tendency in the transgender community to abuse the diagnosis by telling the mental health professional selective information to support the diagnosis, and everybody thinking that's cool.
Naturally I'm not suggesting this is the case in Beauty's case. But it *is* done--a lot! The GID diagnosis shouldn't be taken lightly.

[Beauty]

Hi Cathy,

Did you read my post where I told the forum what's going on with my life?

I promise, this isn't being taken lightly.

Beauty

[CJ]

Hi all,

Cathy,

I totally agree with you. But there's a flip side to all this, in that it's difficult to see how mental illness models regarding both homosexuality and GID are not also the result of "group think." In effect, and despite people being happy and at ease with who they are, they're made to feel abnormal merely because their sexual orientation or gender identity is at the tapering edges of a behavioural bell curve. "You're not like most of us; therefore, you are ill." There's something wrong with this; namely, the use of statistics to define a person. This leads to a view of people in "negative" terms (they lack something--in this case, mental health [viewed as a statistically significant standard of behaviour]) rather than in "positive" terms (what they have that makes them individuals with the potential to thrive--resilience, empathy, a higher degree of self-awareness than is the norm, an embracing of diversity born of the need or desire to be accepted oneself, the potential to apply to their own lives and to that of others the lessons learned from that master teacher--lifelong suffering, etc., etc.).

I agree with you; a diagnosis of GID (or any diagnosis, for that matter) is not to be taken lightly. We need to figure out where we fit in that more or less professional appraisal. As many psychiatrists will tell you (or, come to think of it, maybe not), diagnosing another person's mental state is a most inexact science. I've seen too many people go through so many successive diagnoses to prevent myself from believing that these assessments are little more than shots in the dark, educated guesses. And therein lies the danger. It's not enough that your therapist or psychologist or psychiatrist know you--you have to know yourself, as well.

I know that "selective revelation" to a therapist in order to skew psychological assessment in favour of our own view of ourselves happens a lot. There's no denying that. But, once a person understands that doing so is potentially harmful (in that, it hampers her therapist's ability to help her), she will usually become more truthful. Therapists know that clients do this and they take it into consideration; that's why this kind of work with someone can be relatively long-term; it gives the client a chance to "become real." And that's when a diagnosis has more chance of hitting its mark--regardless of the wish (for or against it) of the client.

Yeah, "group think" sucks. Big time. But we humans are social animals, "group think creatures." It's almost impossible to avoid. I see it in the medical community. I see it in the football stands. I even see it here, on this forum.

Elizabeth,

I can't help but feel that articles written on transsexualism by psychologists who are themselves transgendered might harbour some bias as well. We need to widen our perspectives so as to include as many viewpoints as we think may be needed to give us a clearer picture of the whole issue. But, you're right; although I haven't been there in a while, I do remember that site being an interesting one. Thanks for the links.

Love,
CJ

[Virginia]

Maybe I can interject this here, my wife's attorney filed in their "Bill of Complaint" (this is public record as it goes into the court records) that I am an insane, pervert! As attached to my perceived crossdressing.
Yes we do have a perception problem when lawyers are allowed to diagnosis "us" as such in court papers.
Virginia

[Loretta Ann]

Welcome to the world of the courts Sis. Where lies are the order of the day. Don’t think for one minute that you are innocent until proven guilty?