latanya's place

[Latanya]

its been pretty much a month since my last post here so an update is in order.
first the easy stuff.
still looking for work and getting frustrated. did have an interview friday so we will see.
my son is getting married next month thank god the other side can afford it.
my married daughter is preg.
and now to latanya.
i have not been on the hormones for two weeks now. and it is fair to say i miss them. the soreness in my chest i almost gone now and i definitely miss that.
as i had discussed in the past religion is an major conflict for me. although have become comfortable with it recently the jewish new year period started out difficult. it is a time for reflection, contemplation and repentance. so that brought a conflict about a week before the season. in the past u would purge and obviously within now time it would come back.
this year the light in my head went on. i decided to stop it and go as me. no more deception, no more going to templw as some one that i am not. after all if he sees all he knows the truth. so this time i approached the holiday's as me. a gender fluid person, one who is male and female. i went to temple as i have been dressing for the last 6 months. integrated. underdressed. i presented myself as me. i prayed and pleaded as me. i requested that as i accept god thru all i go thru accept me for what i am. this was the best season i have had in a long time. i was comfortable and pleased with the decision and felt that i had come to grips with my conflict.
two weeks ago a took another step. now that i live in another area it was time to introduce myself to the community.
i already know some people, and i do know the rabbi. but i have never sat down with him and discussed with him why he sees me so much.
so i did. told him about my legal, financial and marital issues. and then i told him i was seeing a therapist for all that plus some personal issue. after discussing all the above the rabbi asked me if i wanted to discuss the personal issue. so i did. i told him i was dealing with gender issues. we talked for a while. he was very supportive and he is there for me any time. he said that it took a lot of guts to tell him and that it was good that i did.
it felt great talking about it with some one from my own tribe.
i really think all this progress is due to my integration of my both sides. this would never have happened a year ago.
so the therapy, the acceptance of who i am, these sites, and especially my letting latanya be an important part of my life has done brought me to this point. the process is slow. sometimes it crawls but progress.
i am thankfull to u all for the support and giving me an avenue to explore and express.

[Emma-A]

It's really great to hear that you got so much understanding and support from the Rabbi. That is something that is lacking ( or is it.just our perception?) in religious circles. I would be ok talking to our vicar about such issues, but I don't think I could go to church as Emma because there are too many small-minded people in the congregation.
I look forward to hearing more in.future about anya's relationship with her faith.

luv,
Em

[Latanya]

em thanks
but u dot have to go dressed
i went as he and the discussion went well
now i agree u cant discuss this with every one in the clergy but finding the right one is not too hard

[Cassandra Lynn]

Thanx for all that Anya and best of luck going forward, i know how it feels starting over in life but doing so with both your inner selves intact is definitely the way to go.

Glad to know your all safe and sound after the past couple of weeks, bless you and all those around you as you put all the pieces back together and get ready for the holidays.

[Latanya]

Thanks cass for the wishes and reading
the jewish holiday's are all over and now heading towards thanksgiving(i guess for being alive) chanukah and then new years.
again thanks for reading

[Latanya]

i went to see a local rabbi, someone whose perspective is similar to mine(modern orthodox)
we met again. i initiated it and i wanted to continue our discussion.
i reviewed my issues, told him where i was,(integrate with out getting to involved with the specifics) and that integration in terms of my emotional state is where i was headed. he appreciated it and told me some very interesting things which are and will be very helpful
1) there is a huge discussion in the talmud(the unwritten books of laws brought down by our sages) on the origins of man. there is a strong opinion that man was originally created as male and female and that a rib was not removed but they were separated into two individuals. a part of that separation was the acknowledgement that they were left incomplete(something was missing). the idea being is that man was created as part man and part women. and that was the ideal
2)we believe that we have a good side and a bad side and that our human struggle is between those two sides. if u dont have those two side u are not human. as well judaism believes that one should serve god with both sides.
in my case both my male and fem sides. a kind of acknowlegement u present urself as a whole person with all ur issues. being devoted to god only from the good is not the way.
3)all religions are male oriented and therefore trying to fit in to any religion one has to focus on his male side which is wrong. religion has to try to be more inclussive otherwise most of us are devoting not as we truly are.he showed concern that we are losing many of our youth because of this. in a world that there is more and more gender blending religion is to rigid. unless u go the the extreme orthodox which allows u to disguise ur identity (dresscode etc) many are having issues with the all male outlook.
he gave me a lot to think about and a lot of positive outlooks on this.
he was happy that i had a lead for a job and did agree that will be a big relief if i do start making a living again. but he did voice concern with a sales position at this stage of my growth. he felt that what i was trying to do(and agreed with it) is to get to the real me whatever that is . to strip away the facades the falsehood etc. to a certain degree a sales position create another persona and to some extent again makes me into something i am not. but since its the only thing on the table i have to pursue it.
we also discussed how i present myself to the world. i think of myself as presenting a macho confident person when in reality i am anything but. he responded and said that's not how i see u. he sees me as a piece of art. that i have created this perfect male persona which he reads as too perfect to be real and is really a cover up. which again draws attention to my internal male/ female conflict. i thought that was very enlightening and really saw my struggle. so all in all a very productive session and to be continued

[Emma-A]

This is a very interesting post Anya. There are a couple of points that have got me thinking.

The first one is you said that generally religious institutions are very male oriented. I attend a local CofE (anglican) church. One of the subjects that was brought up recently was that the church is very female-oriented. Many felt that it did not cater well for the needs of men. In order to address this issue, the church has arranged a few 'men only' activities, primarily of a sporting/competitive nature (which incidentally don't appeal to me at all).

Secondly, I'm very impressed by the level of support and understanding that you are receiving from the Rabbi. I guess that's one of the benefits of living in a large cosmopolitan city. Unfortunately living in a rural part of the Uk where there are more tractor drivers than therapists, it's hard enough finding a therapist who has experience of gender issues, let alone anyone in the religious fraternity who can relate to such issues. The good news is I've found a local therapist who I'm going to try - he worked in London for a large portion of his career and so has quite a wide breadth of experience.

I'm so glad to see you are moving forward Anya, especially in relation to your faith. I look forward to your next update.

Luv,
Em

[Anthony Simon]

The rabbi sounds very good. It's really hard to believe you're ever going to get someone more sympathetic and understanding. He also sounds very astute on the pyschology - as though he has therapeutic experience of some sort.

[Leeza]

Anya, your Rabbi sounds like a good one.

[Emma-A]

em thanks
but u dot have to go dressed
i went as he and the discussion went well
now i agree u cant discuss this with every one in the clergy but finding the right one is not too hard

Anya I know you didn't go dressed as her, I wasn't implying that. It's mostly about the internal stuff in any case. The dressing is just a small part of the whole.

[Anne Bonny]

I had planned to open a new topic but seems to fit here. I was on you tube and saw one of our sisters who had developed a very feminine voice, anyway I suppose if you desire to make that effort until it becomes a natural habit. Anyway...this person had a very feminine appearance nice feminine hair style, shoulder length, eyebrows, pierced ears, perhaps he was under the influence of hormones?? I was searching through his posts, in one she stated she had discussed this with her mother. She had her testicles removed and seemed to be on the road to transitioning - THEN...HE posted about Detransitioning, because he had to eat and find a job, stating that all he was doing to look and to be feminine was ALOT OF WORK! This is why the bar for transitioning should be very intense and the bar set very high. I also remember being impressed that a guy who had completely transitioned or had lived as a woman for 18 years - this was on TV - detransitioned as well. I know I am a transvestite, just a fence sitter who moves one way then the other for varying periods of time, but I do know as I told my psychologist that I had been struggling with this aspect of myself for over 45 years, when I was 40 I accepted myself, and recently accepted that God (I am a Christian) looks at our heart and was therefore no conflict between me and our heavenly father. God would otherwise have given me to power to overcome this, after over 45 years...I am who I am. We sometimes deceive ourselves with our present desires, only to find out later down the road that we are not transexuals. I just believe it is the right choice for some, but definitely wrong for others and being one way or the other makes no difference we are who we are, I do envy transexuals SOMETIMES wish there was a way to shape shift on occasion ha! yeah, right!

After reading through all the above, it is not clear to me where you are at, perhaps this doesn't really fit here? Probably should have opened a new topic on this. But some parts do seem to address self acceptance and the same conflict I had with my religion, though God I believe looks at my heart and has not taken this out of my life I would be asked to leave the church, or perhaps not to come back until I had repented of this "sin" by the narrow minded ridged people who probably make up the rest of the congretation and our pastor as well. It is a PCA Presbyterian Church!

[Emma-A]

Anne Bobby you are right to bring up that subject, it is one that is very complex and sometimes misunderstood. Like you, I think all I will ever do is sit on the fence. Dress up and or beautify myself occasionally, perhaps even a modest dose of hormones. But I don't think I could ever go as far as transitioning, for fear of the difficulty going back which knowing my mentality I surely would at some time.

I totally agree with your religious stance. God knows our heart and if we were doing wrong he would make us aware of it. I'm not a very 'good Christian' so my knowledge of the bible is a bit sparse, but I'm sure that somebody could find verses that support either side of the hypothetical arguement. One of the subjects covered in our church a while ago was masturbation, and ultimately the pastor concluded that the act is not a problem to god, but rather some of the things that can go alongside the act, such as coveting somebody or pornography. I believe that the same applies to crossdressing. It is not sinful by itself, only perhaps if associated with sexual fetishes or sexuality that goes against the bible teachings.

I hope i'm not breaking forum rules by discussing this matter. Mods please feel free to delete if inappropriate.

Luv,
Em

[Anne Bonny]

Well, actually such is quite offensive to other readers and there is a rule against it, I breeched it read the rules and so I stopped, or tried to wondering now about my last post? hum... Oh well I am testing the limits going without a haircut for a long time, my hair is bushy but still I would desire long hair and a woman's hairstyle which can be undone or perhaps styled as a man would wear long hair not lifting and drying with a vent brush, then drying from the top while rolling the roller brush, then using the pick and styling setting to blow the hair and bangs back. A perfumed shampoo is nice too. To lose my belly and my weight down to 170 again, this morning I was 205 down from 209 so I seem to be moving slightly in the right direction. Oh pierced ears so that I can purchase whatever dangling earrings or hoops I desire, yes a little bit of hormone treatment would be nice to try, wish I had at least breasts to fill an A Cup - could be achieved and not too obvious unless the doctor wants to listen to your heart and lungs, Softer skin. I also would not mind having no facial hair. I would not mind not having any testicles at 55 I do not plan any more children. But all of these progressive steps especially the last four would be permanent and perhaps going too far, while at the same time not too excessive perhaps. Thing is I would have to be quite open and visit an endocrinologist willing to perform the last two - not sure I would qualify for those? Beyond that is a bridge too far and I know it. I can affect a female voice but that is really just that affecting something and that's really not me. Perhaps without testicles and on female hormones the voice might tend to move up slightly? I think the effects of 55 years of testosterone make things like the deeper voice irreversible, perhaps there is a vocal cord proceedure? But again it would be a bridge too far for a fat old heterosexual transvestite. A pervert is an honest statement but a harmless and fairly private one.

[Kimberly Kael]

Perhaps without testicles and on female hormones the voice might tend to move up slightly?

No such luck. I've never heard any credible claims to this effect, though the reverse works relatively well for our FtM counterparts. Testosterone makes a lot of one-way changes. There's a lot more to a feminine voice than pitch, though, and with practice most of us can learn to fall somewhere within the incredibly broad range of natural female voices.

... perhaps there is a vocal cord procedure?

There is, but there's no small amount of risk associated with it. Vocal cords are extremely delicate and can easily be damaged, plus they're not the only source of male / female differentiation. Greater lung capacity developed through puberty lends to a more resonant quality that you can minimize with practice, and that's also an essentially irreversible physical characteristic.

[Ralitsa]

I've been thinking basically all the same things as you have Anne. Although I've been letting my hair grow, I still don't like it. Quite frankly there is a bald spot that only a wig can help with. So that's my solution now, I think that I'll actually cut it shorter and wear a wig more often. It seems like that is the newest trend among women anyway, to have a wig for every occasion and then you have instant hair style and color to match your mood and outfit. Actually I like this idea a lot (just need to figure out how to finance it) and what women doesn't want to be in on the lastest trend

I'm also seriously considering the testicle removal. Since I'm not ever going to have more kids I really don't need them for anything, and my panties would fit a lot better without them. So I'm thinking about telling the doc I want them removed for health reasons. I don't want to transition really, but I would like bigger breasts. And since testosterone is linked to heart disease, prostate cancer, and other stuff, I think I should be able to make a good case for it. I'll just consider it to be an elective cosmetic surgery. So that is definitely a one-way decision, there is no going back, although taking testosterone supplements seems to be popular now so I suppose one can do that.
I haven't actually decided about that though, there is a lot to think about.