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Posted: **Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:07 am**

Sally wrote:A scientist, namely Professor Simon Baron-Cohen of Cambridge University, last month presented his findings of a study completed on 278 individuals, designed to measure how much they empathised with other people and their ability to understand and analyse systems.

They found that women tended to have a higher score on the empathy test and men on the systems test, which was consistent with many other similar studies coducted over the years on male and female brains.

They also found that 17% of the men and 14% of the women scored considerably higher on the test in which the opposite sex usually did better. A third of all participants also had 'balanced brains' which displayed characteristics of both genders.

Professor Baron-Cohen's studies have also found evidence that the 'sex' of the brain had already been determined in babies only one day old, he also added,"Our discoveries could have a lot of practical uses, e.g for instance in schools, we believe male and female brains could benefit from different teaching styles.

He also said that not all men had the typical male brain which focussed on systemising and certainly not all women had a female brain which focussed on empathising. He also said that the differences between the brains of men and women are measureable and he found it fascinating to see how individuals fit or don't fit into these trends.

He said that his research shows that one in five men have a 'female' brain and that one in seven women have a 'male' brain.

Below are the 40 questions which formed part of the research.
They scored on the system of 2 points for any statement you strongly agree with which applies to you, one point for any statement you slightly agree with and no points for any statement you slightly or strongly disagree with.

The first 20 questions equals the Systemising Quotient and the last 20 the Empathising Quotient. They scored it so that if your SQ total is greater than your EQ total then you have a 'male wired brain' and vice versa you have a 'female wired brain'. If they are even then you have a balanced brain.

Personally I have never attached much credence to these type of personality tests, but then again I suppose who am I to argue with scientists, we all have to make our own minds up about what we agree or disagree with, I'm always of the firm opinion that who and what we all are is laid out for us before we're born, therefore we have no say in who we are.

Anyway, here are the 40 questions, have fun with it, some of them are not dissimilar from the Cogiati Test, but then there are only so many variations of questions which can be asked.

.......................................

So there it is, so score 2 points for each statement you agree with strongly, 1 point for each statement you agree slightly with and no points if you disagree. Add up your total of the SQ test and the EQ test to give you a total out of the maximum 40 points, and if your SQ total is greater than your EQ total then you have a 'male' brain, if your EQ total is greater than your SQ total you have a 'female brain' and if your scores are even you have abalanced brain, but take it all as serious or as lightly as you wish, it's a personal belief, I don't believe it's definitive, but then as I said, who am I to argue with scientists.

Kind Regards to all.

Sally.

Hi

I have a problem with the conclusions here. What I read is that 31% (17 + 14) of the sample have "brains" that do not "match" their gender. Another 1/3 have "balanced brains," brains as much masculine as feminine.

That leaves only 1/3 who have, what, "normal brains" that match their gender. Or, to put it another way, According to this guy, 2/3 of all people do not conform to their gender roles. Either his conclusion is at fault or, more likely, his premise is all wrong.

If you assume that something like "I prefer to read non-fiction rather than fiction" means you are or are not masculine, then I suppose you can presume to reach some kind of conclusion. However, what is the basis for the assumption in the first place? What does reading fiction or non-fiction have to do with gender? If we say that women like fiction and "make-believe" and men like "facts," doesn't that very assumption imply a devaluation of women? Of course, this "research" was done by a man, so...

Does Cohen himself devalue fiction as not serious writing? There is more wisdom in the writing of Tolstoy than most non-fiction.

I am only picking this one question as an example. I could find the same kind of subjectivity in any of these questions. These questions are not objective determinations of what is masculine or feminine. They are worded with the desired conclusion already in mind.

Furthermore, it is my understanding that simple "yes/no" questions are statistically invalid in a survey. For example, most people who answers yes to "I find it easy to grasp exactly how odds work in betting." are lying. The laws of probability require several years of advanced math studies, with calculus as a prerequisit. One may *think* they have the odds figured out, but I wouldn't place a bet on their say-so with my own money.

For the most part, the correct answer to all these questions from anybody, male or female, is "sometimes."

Here's my favorite:

"I am unable to make decisions without being influenced by other people."

This is what Cohen thinks makes people "feminine"? This is what it means to be a woman? Don't tell Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Dole, Condolesa Rice or Diane Fienstien this. (sorry if I spelled the names wrong).

It terrifies me to think that this kind of research could be used to determine how public schools are structured.

Sally - your comment "who am I to argue with scientists" is giving science way too much credence. Science is by and large a matter of opinion. It takes years of repeated observation, testing, theorising and debate before all of the scientific community comes to agreement. Last Monday (April 12) was the day in history (1633) when Galileo was put on trial because, as a scientist, he supported the theory that the earth revolved around the sun. Plenty of "scientists" in his day disagreed. The trial and his conviction ruined his life. He said, "In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual."

Regards
Yvonne

Posted: **Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:48 am**

Hi Yvonne,

I'm not sure you're talking about this test or if you're summing up all of these tests up into a bunch? This one was really posted to just be fun (Sally said). I enjoyed it.

I think these tests do show a great deal of consistency between us though. Like the one test where a whole lot of us got 86% or in that range. Some of the questions were about Canada.

It was fun but not scientific.

In Sally's thread she had some interesting things to say about Cohen's survey study, but I thought the test she posted was only a part of the overall test?

Now I'm really confused (not hard to do that to me).

Anyhow, I thought it was interesting and I look forward to reading more results!

Beauty

Posted: **Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:52 am**

Hi all,

Hmmmm, still can't get my brain to properly wrap itself around these question-begging issues.

I guess I need to figure out if there's a difference between Empathizing and Systemizing brains, as opposed to Empathizing and Systemizing personalities...

Add 2 points to Pr. Baron-Cohen's SQ for this study/questionnaire.

Love,
CJ

Posted: **Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:01 am**

What defines normal? I personally don't think there is any such thing.
Being as there are not two of us that are completely identical.

I believe we are all a mixture of the two sides. I like to think of an equal score for each side as being a reference point and we all vary in both directions from there.

I had fun taking the test, I think it enables us to understand our selves (and others) a little better, and I too am looking forward to seeing the results as more of us participate.

Posted: **Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:32 pm**

I think it's very important that we regard as little more than funhouse mirrors the various gender tests that are often brought up in online TG forums. Unfortunately, regarding such tests seriously is all too easy to do. Think about it: how many of us haven't had our destinies altered in one way or another by people using the results of psychological tests that we've taken (intelligence and aptitude tests figuring very prominently in this regard). We're a society of test-takers, and we take the results of our tests very seriously.

Some folks are relatively lucky--by and large, the results of tests they've taken throughout their lives have been in line with (favorable) expectations, and they've been directed to the calmer, sunnier places where we all would like to have been sent. If such people enjoy taking tests, it's a reflection of their overall positive experiences. But some of us have been victims of poorly designed tests, flawed test results, abuse of scores . . . . I have a BS in Mathematics; I've worked as a programmer for years. But when I was in first grade, I was tested into special education and spent three and a half years of my childhood being bused about to whichever nearby school had the appropriate facilities for my "needs". It's amazing what kinds of results testers come up with when they think you're a round peg and the only holes they have available are square.

-Celia

Posted: **Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:42 pm**

Hi,

I have to apologize to Yvonne for creating another thread on her post because it hasn't stopped folks from venting their frustrations with these tests.

I agree with Yvonne, Curly and Celia about these tests not being valid. I kind of thought of these as fun and not to be taken to seriously because there is no way internet tests can be considered valid. Even valid tests are disputed by some.

Anyway, sorry Yvonne.

I shouldn't have left your post here.

Beauty

Posted: **Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:51 pm**

Hi Yvonne,

I totally agree with what you say, I never take any gender tests as being definitive, as I've said on many an occaison, I see them as a bit of fun and some of the questions in them are quite laughable really. After I posted it in the Coping section I thought I should have posted it in the Fun Stuff section as that would have given it a lighter air, which it deserves.

I totally agree with you that the questions in these types of tests are 'loaded' questions, but I suppose the creators of them are usually working with Governments grants so they have to write a paper at the conclusion of their studies to justify their existence.

I've often wondered what it has to do with anything if someone has difficulty defining North or South, or reading a map or backing a motor car. Maybe they just have poor eyesight. I would also mention that a lot of what I wrote in the original message was not my ideas, the text was taken from the published article and I suppose I fell down there a bit, as I was writing in the third person. I should have been more explicit of who was saying what.

One object of mine in publicly posting this type of thing is to draw other comments which align with my thinking and I think that if people generally see that the majority of others don't take these things too seriously, then some people who may have attached too much credence to them will see the articles for what they really are. I also believe that we can't really know what the author has in their mind when they construct these tests, by that I mean if they are directing the questioning to obtain a particular result.

With all the poking and prodding I've had into my poor little brain over the years I'm not sure anyone could decipher now which category it fits into anyway. lol. and as for scientists, well there are scientists and there are scientists, just as with any other group of people and they themselves have as much difficulty in agreeing with each other on any given subject as anyone else, until something is proved beyond all possible doubt.

I'm sorry if I've gone on too much about this, but I just wanted to make sure I qualify what I think about gender tests. Many people are aware of my opinion of them, but I just don't want anyone to think because I posted the article I agree with it, because I certainly don't. I've been round the block too many times and I believe their value is very very limited.

My Kindest Regards.

Sally.

Crossdressers-Haven.com

Gender Tests? To Be Or Not To Be?

Gender Tests? To Be Or Not To Be?

Gender tests? tobe or not to be?