Crossdressers-Haven.com

Deatails to come... cannot post now... will post when i calm down...

Sit down sweetheart, catch your breath, and relax. Now what happen?
Carol Ann

Okay, here's the story... I was at my usual spot last night...

So this loud little underage, Eminem-wannabe (this little jerk was no older than 18 or 19) started making wisecracks from the getgo, pissing off all my ladyfriends & making my buddies want to knock him out.

Now, I initially ignored him as I always do whenever I hear smart comments from a stranger. But I will face facts...Lorna can no longer pass for a real woman. Being older, heavier & less attractive will take its physical toll. (I can't stop time, I can live with that) As soon as I walked by, he was saying, "OH MY GOD! Look at this!" the laughter & wisecracks rang loud and clear. I don't care if I was uglier than the woman in Planet of the Apes... THIS LITTLE **** WAS BEGGING FOR A BEATDOWN. NOBODY needed to hear the racist homophobic **** that this little jerk was spewing! I ordinarily would ignore it & say it's not worth my time & trouble. But someone needed to teach this little underage jerk a lesson. Plus I had a very bad week in general, and this was the final straw.

Deep down I wanted this little jerk to suffer the humiliation of getting beat down by a CD.

It was bad enough that he accidentally burnt my leg with his damn cigarette, burning a HOLE in my brand new pantyhose in the process! Drunken MORON...

But then as soon as he started cursing out my goth friends who were standing by me and calling everyone freaks, I just LOST MY PATIENCE. So I GRABBED that little **** & literally threw him out the door! 2 seconds later, there was a team of bouncers standing right in front of him, escorting him OUT.

****ing Moron. I'm friends with the owner of the club, you moron. The bouncers have MY back. Don't **** with Lorna.

Being a crossdresser may still be considered freakish & pervertd & disgusting to some, even in the year 2004 which yes, I find absurd, especially in NY. But I will be **** if anybody tries to spit on my right to be me! If you don't like me, then **** YOU. Just like it says in my sig, step on my toes, and I WILL STEP ON YOUR HEAD.

Okay, I'm done... soap

First, I'm glad you're ok Lorna.

Question? Are you on probation? Meaning, if the cops had been called or he had pressed charges, what would have happened to you?

Ok.. it's true, I admit. If I was watching a movie I probably would be cheering, but because it's real life I think about what your actions. I'm sure you did embarass him and he deserved it.

Another question. Do you think the next time he sees a CD'r walking he'll hurt them because you humiliated him in front of others? If you had punched his lights out then I would think he would be somewhat afraid, but since the bouncers where there he'll always consider it unfinished business with our community.

Ok, maybe I'm being a back seat driver. It's easy to say this when I didn't experience it.

My last question. Why didn't you call the bouncers and tell him he was causing problems instead of taking actions into your own hands? That was dangerous.

Call me a worry ward or over protective or whatever, but I hope others here call someone to get help and don't take matters into their own hands.

Like it or not, you're someone people look up to.

I'm totally shaking in my boots because no one usually questions you about your actions, but I'm going to. I don't suggest folks pile on btw. Let me take a beating if Lorna is p'd at me for asking this series of tough and what could seem judgemental questions.

I don't mean them to be, but I do have questions, but I am not owed answers. I'm only a friend asking another friend TOUGH questions.

Beauty

Valid questions, Beauty. I'd be happy to answer them for you.

Question? Are you on probation? Meaning, if the cops had been called or he had pressed charges, what would have happened to you?

No, I am not on any probation of any sort. Besides, I only pushed him. I didn't strike him (as much as I wanted to). Plus, if the cops had arrived then I had at least a dozen witnesses who would have said that he started the altercation and I was only defending myself.

I'm sure you did embarass him and he deserved it.

Oh, did he ever!

Another question. Do you think the next time he sees a CD'r walking he'll hurt them because you humiliated him in front of others?

No, I honestly think that he will think twice before opening his mouth. When he sees a CD he will keep his mouth shut & walk the other way.

If you had punched his lights out then I would think he would be somewhat afraid, but since the bouncers where there he'll always consider it unfinished business with our community.

I don';t think he had beef with me personally as a CD per se, he seemed to have a problem with everyone within the goth scene! He was also harassing girls, grabbing them inappropriately, and cursing out and bumping into guys. He was making everyone uncomfortable.

My last question. Why didn't you call the bouncers and tell him he was causing problems instead of taking actions into your own hands? That was dangerous.

First off, I had already told the bouncers about this troublemaker beforehand so they were within close range the whole time. Second, this little jerk really had it coming. Third, he was about half my size and so drunk that he could barely stand up straight. He posed no threat whatsoever. Fourth, as long as you have known me on the web, you know how I am, Beauty. I have never been the type of person to turn the other cheek whenever someone was causing trouble or messing with my friends.

Call me a worry ward or over protective or whatever, but I hope others here call someone to get help and don't take matters into their own hands

I would not encourage anyone else here to take the same action in that situation. But as for me, well... this is who I am. I have had to fight my entire life. When I was taking beatings as a child for being small for my age or being too weird, I had to fight. When my freedom to just be me was threatened, I had to fight. When tragic events started taking place in my life, I had to be strong, be tough... and I'm not speaking in a traditional "macho" sense. Women have to be tough too in this day & age. Women have to be fighters too.

You've known me on the web for some time now. This is who I am. I have been thru a lifetime of battles condensed into 31 years. I don't have the luxury of ever letting my guard down. I know that you don't agree with my actions, Beauty, and that's okay. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But when I shoved that kid out the door, you know how I felt? Totally justified for the first time in months! I finally felt redeemed.

Many others here will propbably disagree with me and that's okay. I did what I felt I had to do.

And on that note: if anyone ever tried to hurt or insult you, this forum, or any of my CD sisters here, I would totally UNLOAD on that person. (But I wouldn't do it here, I would take it elsewhere, don't worry) But I guarantee that they would think twice before messing with folks in the future.

Like it or not, you're someone people look up to.

Yeah I know... but I am also only human. I sweat, cry and bleed like everyone else.

I am just so sick and tired of people being pushed around by stupid intolerant jerks, just because they're different. And I'm NOT going to stand for it anymore. My patience has run dry.

Hi Lorna,

Yes I do know you. I feel I know you well.

Knowing you is one of the zillion reasons I love you so much!

You are a protector. Yes, I do know you. I know you on the web very well.

You do not look for fights, but if someone is dumb enough to bring one, well... they asked for it.

Thank you Lorna for answering me. I literally gulped when I saw your response. (before I clicked on the link and read it)

Thank you!!!
Beauty

p.s. It's great to know you'd protect me if I needed you. I'd do the same, I promise.

Beauty wrote:Hi Lorna,

Yes I do know you. I feel I know you well.

Knowing you is one of the zillion reasons I love you so much!

You are a protector. Yes, I do know you. I know you on the web very well.

You do not look for fights, but if someone is dumb enough to bring one, well... they asked for it.

Thank you Lorna for answering me. I literally gulped when I saw your response. (before I clicked on the link and read it)

Thank you!!!
Beauty

p.s. It's great to know you'd protect me if I needed you. I'd do the same, I promise.

I love you too, Beauty!

Basically that's all I want to do - protect my friends and their right to be happy. I don't look for trouble. But if someone tries to hurt me or my friends, then BRING IT ON. Plus, my GG friends down at the club look at me as a big sister type...

Lorna wrote;

Many others here will probably disagree with me and that's okay. I did what I felt I had to do.

Now that you have filled in the details it makes it easier to understand. I think there is wisdom in both of your approaches, what works for one person may not work all that well for another.

Lorna I would disagree with you only if you had not acted true to the way you are inside. If one is able to do that with the right attitude there is room for adjustment, should you see the need for that in the future.

Beauty, I really appreciate you asking Lorna the questions the way you did, That is good healthy communication, and done right can only benefit the people on this forum.

Lorna (or should I say Xena),

I'm only getting to this thread now. I glad you are safe. I would also say that I believe a reason CDs are picked on at times, is that we allow others to get away with crap. Just because we love to look good and where feminine clothing does not mean we have given up on our own self esteem. If more of us were braver (and admittedly, I am not yet) I believe we could really change the perception society has of us. Society still does not like gay/lesbian persons, but as you can see, while there is still much room for improvement, they have come a long way. If we never start our own revolution (like addressing issues like Lorna did) we will forever been seen as freaks. Our destiny is in our own hands. Lorna, I wish I had the courage to stand up for what I believe in like you did.

Nuff Luv,

Erica Shade

Beauty wrote: . . . Call me a worry ward . . .

okay . . . you're a worry ward!








Lorna, be careful out there!!! I'd hate to see an unexpected mob mentality of passerbys turn against you!

Lorna,
Knowing the folks at the establishment was very important and I would guess you have that in the back of your mind that you had their support. Knowing you to some degree, I doubt that your reaction would have been the same in a different situation where you may be on unfamiliar territory.
I am, however like you, with my background in martial arts - I simply give not quarter! There was a line in the movie "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" "If you are going to shoot - shoot! don't talk!" You done good and I am proud of you!
Love.
Deborah

Alexandra wrote:

Beauty wrote: . . . Call me a worry ward . . .

okay . . . you're a worry ward!

I've began to look at this forum as a community---full of different perspectives that have helped shaped my own---- I hope you all realize the how much I enjoy DIVERSITY of opinion.. these thoughts I offer are in this spirit:

For one to truly wish for acceptance for how we look or act---like EVERYONE wants---perhaps the challenge is to accept another for the same
---especially when your first reaction may be to write that person off, or raise words or hands against them

--- a drunken character won't recall a boundry lesson.
---adding your light to the sum of light is easier than it sounds
----Lorna, you've an artist's soul with a passionate zeal for action--------I think your strength of character will always serve you well and that your individuality and confidence will inspire the people around you
----You are special and one of a kind-enough to go another step and inspire vexed-spirits as well.
---mostly anger and agitated behavior is from lack of love and acceptence
---don't be fooled by the time it takes for change to sink in--a crowd at a club---all of whose lives will lead off in many directions:
---they'll take with them whatever they saw and reflect on it as their lives unfold
----Non-action isn't weak:
---its from the sharpest part of a knife's-edge
---non-violence creates a stronger change that shapes the long-haul
----Non-violence is for a better future
----ENTER THE DRAGON(BRUCE LEE):-------" It is the art of fighting without fighting"

This way requires regarding justice as a fuse---not to be lit...world is full of war ---all parts believing their different justices.
----------our day to day can change the world.
--------All things are possible
----These thoughts are thousands of years old-
--------------I hope you remember I look up to all of you I think of you as kindred-spirits.--who I want to know what I REALLY think.


-------8) Tea-cake

Hi all,

This is an important thread. Anyone who goes out dressed will probably have to deal with the sort of thing that happened to Lorna at least once. So here's my two cents. What will you do when this sort of thing happens to you? Just ignore it? It's true that sometimes, keeping one's distance is the best tactic, depending on the situation. But, it seems to me that in PUBLIC situations it is best for us, for our cding sisters, and for non-cders who need to be educated to confront the jerks head-on. Confrontation doesn't mean violence. For me, if I don't confront someone right away, the anger can build and lead to rage and then either to a physical fight or having that rage eat away at my insides. That's why I'd try to confront right away--verbally, but in such a way as to turn the tables, explain who we CDers are, and at the same time, de-escalate the crisis. So, I salute Lorna for standing up and doing something. I'm also with those who counsel against violence because it doesn't serve our community's need, which is to educate.

In all honesty, I haven't ever faced the situation as a cder (though I have in my male mode), because I haven't ventured out on the street and in a public place until just recently (today, actually for the first time!). I know that fear can be paralyzing, and I respect that difficulty. For that reason, I think it would be useful to continue this discussion and try to determine what things can be said and done when we are confronted with insults, etc. without resorting to violence.


Laura

Hi Laura. You raise some very interesting points.

In all honesty I know that whenever I enter an establishment that I am relatively safe. I will only go where I know people whether it be friends or staff or both. I will not go to a place that looks "seedy" in any way shape or form. On that note, I would NOT encourage anyone here to venture into an unfamiliar area, especially alone.

That night I was surrounded by numerous friends and I also know the owner and bouncers quite well. Unfortunately the only reason I referred to mild violence was because the 'protector' in me surfaced, and yes he deserved it. NOBODY disrespects my friends and gets away with it, especially a lady.

Who remembers the movie To Wong Foo? (Remember the scene when Patrick Swayze contfronted the dirty redneck who was beating his wife? The wife-beater recieved an old school butt-whoopin from a Drag Queen! I cheered!!! )

Serious side note: my father used to beat my mother. I guess that's why I just go nuts when a man is physically abusive towards a woman. Or in any case where someone is being a bully.

But just please note: I am not suggesting that we all grab sticks & bats & bum-rush the troublemakers. There are always more dignified alternatives. Plus, having the appropriate parties nearby is always a plus!

Nowadays, Penn Station is FILLED with police officers so I KNOW I'm safe as I wait for my train!