United Kingdom Of Gender Variance ?

[Karin]

Ive just taken this from the government site that handles our documentation changes here in the UK

The Gender Recognition Act allows transsexual people to apply for a Gender Recognition Certificate that gives them legal recognition in their acquired gender. However, in order to obtain a full Gender Recognition Certificate a person who is married or a civil partner must first dissolve their marriage or civil partnership because same-sex marriage or opposite-sex civil partnerships are not recognised in the UK. - HM Courts and Tribunal Service (June 2006)



Im bummed about this really. As someone who wants SRS, it seems that every step and turn with our system is filled with stupid and arrogant hurdles to overcome that are so...

As a parent and main income provider going through this, i have quite a balancing act to acheive in my life. I have to juggle 'employability with a need to display myself', and i am also concious that i dont want to place my children in a situation where they are ridiculed for who i am.. formulative years and all that.

I dress respectfully when im out an about so as not to embarrass anyone, not drawing too much attention, yet satisfying my needs too. This has worked brilliantly for us here. Now for me to get treated surgically I am faced with the following predicament..

To get SRS I need to prove who i am and that i have track record as Karin and am of sound mind.. granted, thats reasonable. One of the main proving mechanisms is the changing of my name and documentations etc, via deed poll or statutory declaration. This is where it gets sticky now. Some of the state documentation has hidden gender markers within the numbering system, some has a blatant M or F as we all know. The criteria for a gender change legally here is based around having GD, living it for a few years, and having the world recognise it. I could apply for this and would be granted it so long as i dissolve my marriage. If i did that, i could ultimately be my true gender and recognised as such.

If i dont want to divorce, i have to lie to the docs and say i intend to, just to satisfy the requirements for surgery, get it done and say 'oops sorry, changed my mind )Then i can live as i need to physically, change my name, but have mismatching documentation...Karin (M). To me if the documents are wrong, theyre wrong.
So rather than lie to people, me being me would prefer to just get the SRS without a song and dance, let the world see 'him" use 'his' name etc but inside i would be me, and i wouldnt dislike my body the way i do etc.. Work wouldnt have to have a 'third set of loos', the kids wouldnt get teased and i would be quite happy. After all im doing it for me and nobody else anyway. Is this 'everyones happy' way possible? Nooooooo. I would first have to tell everybody im having body mods done, live in the open etc or they wont treat me. How many other people have to tell the whole world about personal medical issues just to get treated?? Just TG. I call shannanigans!! Boo Hiss!! If all the people in my works had to state all their medical issues, nobody would turn up!

So all this just makes it seem like I cant do this discreetly, nor can i do this and remain in a happy marriage despite both parties wanting to do so. As i am in an international marriage, a civil partnership would probably rile them too, not that thats what it would be because we are married despite what the state says - thankyou England!

So no matter which way i go, it would seem that my paperwork will only ever be a bunch of *X$%$! anyway, so who needs that. Just like the HRT im beginning to think i need to go it alone for the SRS too and just not tell the state

[Carol Ann]

Karin,

Love what can I say except I am sorry and feel for you, I for one don't want SRS I just want to live full time and be me and happy.

[Paulette]

International issues are very difficult. Sometimes impossible.

My wife's tattoo artist's partner is an FtM trans, who is managing his US paperwork here just fine. Slowly and painfully, but fine so far, with no impossibilities seen yet.

However, his university records, including his degrees are all from Italian schools. When he asked for a change of records, showing his current sex/status, they simply erased all the records he had established, including graduate degrees, permanently, so that they apparently could not be retrieved. Fortunately, he does have earlier transcripts, though they show him as "her," with her name.

He would like to be simply who he is and have his background records reflect it. His professional standing requires it. He can't have that -- or rather, he can but only if he is willing to be outed every time he applies for a new job.

Someday all of this will be much easier. Once national freedoms and rights are established it's hard to remove them, and all Western nations are rapidly (in bureaucratic terms) getting there. In the meantime, you do what you gotta do. And that requires making difficult priority decisions about what is most important and least painful for you and yours. And you know that better than anyone. Good luck, Karin. I wish it were easier, but we know it could be much harder, too.

[Anthony Simon]

Well...

Seems like there are two aspects to this. The first is about having to divorce your wife if you want SRS - which is the law is an backside type thing. The second is about you having to live as a woman for an extended period before you qualify for SRS - which seems reasonable.

On the first, I don't know anything beyond that Jan Morris stayed living with her wife after SRS (see Conundrum) and I find, on looking it up on Google, that they did indeed have to divorce but are now living in a civil partnership (since 2008).

As far as I can make out, the problems of you being visible as a woman before you have SRS are the source of a lot of the angst in your rant. But you also seem to acknowledge that you having to live as a woman before the op has a point to it. Although you don't mention your parents and other relatives, I'm wondering if these people particularly are what are bothering you.

Especially given your desire to do everything gradually, the abruptness of the change seems like it may be a problem.

[Karin]

Anthony,

The fact that i have to live openly as me for two years isnt really an issue to me. Granted i havent put my parents through the 'what?? why?? and how? isnt really an issue i think? I mean, what exactly does 'living as a woman' mean anyway? In my part of the world i rarely see a GG running around shouting about whats under her clothes. I live as me everyday, i wear what i want and i act how i want etc etc. Laying it down to people happens as and when it needs to, and not just cos somebody ive never met nor will meet made some laws about it? Telling people isnt an issue for me. My point is that it feels like victimisation that i have to state things about myself that nobody other than a TG would have to do. Its intrusive to me, period. Id say its sexist maybe? except those happy with their birth assigned genders dont have to dance to the organ grinders whim.

Im not blazing a trail here in knee jerk decisions, nor am i fumbling around in a pink fog. Its a very big decision and takes years and years to both plan and achieve. So that said its very important for me to have a viable plan, slow and methodical is fine, so long as it is a solid plan of the road ahead.

Like Paulette says, international can be impossible. Im not sure if youve ever dealt with british immigration, but i have. Just to get to where we are now,took a year of chasing an immigration lawyer (who subsequently got charged for breach of their own rules), being told by immigration that my wife must leave the country, my british daughter born here is no longer british???? despite her NI and Passport showing she was born five miles down the road, my member of parliament getting involved and giving up. This resulted in me actually going to Washington DC and getting..An american guy, yes American??!!? to over rule the british immigration and sort out the mess. The american dudes exact words? British immigration are a national embarrassment.

The very thought of dealing with those idiots is enough to alarm anyone. Last time i tried to call them, i made 180 telephone calls without getting a human. I bluff not. If i dissolve my marriage, this family is 7 thousand miles apart. Now thats far more important to me than dancing like a monkey to get fed my treatment lol And why? ummm i dont see a good reason really cos changing my gender wouldnt change any of the logistical aspects of funding my family etc etc. It takes viable and turns it into non viable, a British trait im afraid.

I may sound bitter but im not. I just have experience of our archaic systems and im a realist. A realist who needs a solid plan of my path ahead so that i may manage it as best i can. That plan would seem impossible in this country, this year if i use 'legitimate' methods. Hence my remark about going it alone..

[Anthony Simon]

Karin,

Seems like there is a bill currently going through parliament that bears on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_m ... ed_Kingdom

http://www.policymic.com/articles/24957 ... lls-behind

[Karin]

Im just looking at this too. It seems that this would be the answer i need

So far this bill has reached and passed stage 7 of 12 on its way to becoming law, as per this..

http://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws ... al-assent/

The amendments are already beginning to flow by the looks of it too haha. It will afford same sex marriage almost all the 'rights' of opposite sex marriges with one of the exceptions being that 'non-comsummation' wont be grounds for divorce , and neither would adultery count unless it was with the 'opposite' sex. O.M.G. did they really type that????

Well lets hope that this gets passed, and that it happens soon, or else plan 'B' may be the way...

[Noeleena]

Hi,

You can have HRT & any SRS, in New Zealand wether your married or not does not make any difference .or have your surgerys over sea's makes no difference the cost does of cause,its a 3rd of whats done in N z, & thats only one type of surgery,

So who ever it may be can live together as they have done for how ever long that was & can for as long as they like.

What happens is you could not have your orignal birth cert's changed to female , you can change your name to any name you wont = say pussy cat, it does not matter or miss Alice.

You dont have to have a sepiration or devorce ether you can have an anuulment, that can be done in a day.

You go to the Court house before the Judge youll have your documents in order you can then after SRS have your named changed anuulment all done at the same time, you can then have a new civil marrage type wedding or simila,

Now there have been a few changes since 07 so this is what it was like then.

Oh & no Psych talking going on for months 3/4 of an hour & signed off Endo would have been only two meetings then HRT.at my requst 3 months . with in 3 years surgerys, again at my requst my surgerys were a little different from trans surgerys, two letters at my requst for going over sea's , putting it simply no hoops needed to be jumped through.

And i paid for my surgerys so this is where some details will have been different, cost all up then $16.000 every thing was included,

As a point i rang the Australian Monash surgery dept & was told i could have had my surgerys two days after i rang .
And there was no issues there & they would have done it . cost then was about AU $ 28,000 for SRS,

Not unfortunaly like the N H S & all the hangups & carry on

...noeleena...

[DonnaT]

Karin, you don't need to divorce in order to get SRS/GRS.

The divorce requirement (soon to change) is only to get a Gender Recognition Certificate, legal recognition of your acquired gender. Surgery is not a requirement.

[Karin]

True Donna,
What I do need to get SRS though, is to prove I am living as Karin openly and securely. Part of the 'checks' are that all of my documentation is ammended to reflect this? Therefore the state wishes me to have my paperwork stating Karin (M), which might be okay for some who intend on changing the gender marker later, but for me I'm currently prevented from doing that without expelling half my family from the UK. So I ask what's the point in making me change my paperwork halfway anyway, I'd only be doing that for them anyway. Aquiring a couple of shrinks evaluations and then going abroad for the ops, then on my return NOT filing any paperwork, would cut out a lot of bs maybe? It's one thing jumping thru hoops if it gets everything sorted, but to me, if they won't do it entirely, I may as well ignore the bits that don't suite..

Let's hope they pass this law.

[Paula G]

This is the main reason that made me start to support the legalisation of same sex marriage in the UK. To me it seems abhorrent that the State can insist on the annulment of a marriage between two people who are so heavily committed to each other that they are prepared too go through something this traumatic and quite literally life changing. Regardless of the immigration situation (and yes we do stink at this) it is down right insulting to a wife who has stood by her husband and supported him through all the trials of becoming her to then officially reject her and tell her that in fact she is not married at all.

I truly hope that the law changes and comes into effect soon, and soon enough to be of use to you at that.