Crossdressers-Haven.com

Hi,
I have been afraid to write what I am doing for fear some may object. Many here don't like the therapy route and I do understand why. Therapists like all of us are individuals with their own ideals and set of experiences. I just read the thoughts on Sally's post, Just a Cross-dresser.

My close woman friend, who wasn't then, gave me hope that I could become a happier person and showed me the faith that she had. I was a wonderful human being and could be helped to see this. I thought I might kill myself because of my constant suffering. I did go to a therapist she recommended and thank God I did.

When I began to accept my cross-dressing I told her in person that I was. I was so afraid I would loose a best friend and confident. She even chuckled and said, "that's all". She was a human resources officer and quit to pursue a masters degree. She has been working part time in child services.

She called a while back and asked if I would be a subject for her practicum. She said that means practice. I would be video taped and the professor would monitor and advise her and could use clips in the general class. I did it. I have been open about my life in general and my journey to accept cross-dressing.

A couple weeks ago, she asked me, for the professor, to come to the university as a live subject for the class to view. I said yes. I am doing this, this Wed. I took a day off work to go. My friend and the professor will interview me and the class will watch live on a telvision.

My friend said the professor was quite impressed with my candor and the ability to look at myself and the complexity of my explainations and answers and the composure that I had when doing so. He felt with the wide range of problems I have had and the way I have been helped by therapy that I was a good example for the group to see the good that can be done.

I thought this is one thing I can do for all abused children and for cross- dressers to relieve some of the fear by seeing a real live functioning human being. These are next generation therapists. I can present myself as well balanced and not a nut. I think I can make a little change by putting myself out there for these future therapists and counselors to know. I have and can explain my feelings of the feminine separate from
abuse issues. No one can say abuse caused my cross-dressing. I hope I will be up to the task to present cross-dressing as a natural part of me.

I have went to these tape sessions with her, so far, wearing my sandals and shiny toes. I got my nails done fresh Sat, and am going that way and not en fem. I wouldn't be good at, in your face. I will wear a little light mascara and a little light make-up like I have been to the tape sessions. I have used a little pink lip gloss to brighten my lips a bit.

I would like all of you to send a little support my way so I can show my wonderful soul and not get befuddled. Of course all comments are welcome, good and not so good. I do respect all comments. This is a little risk for me, coming out to people I don't know and hope that they don't try to harm me in any ways.

What do you think?
Kersten

Hi all,

Kersten,

All the more power to you! I think it's awesome that you're willing (and able) to do this. It's one example of what I meant when I said elsewhere that, by being ourselves, by helping ourselves, we encourage social tolerance.

I've also done exactly what you're doing. MY GF, back in the early 90s, chose crossdressing as a subject matter for a year-end presentation in a college social studies class. I helped her flesh out her material, so to speak. She then hit upon a bright idea: she asked me if I would feel comfortable enough to actually "present" myself to the class. I said, "sure! but not dressed, though!" (I wasn't that comfortable yet, I have to admit.) I did it and it went off without a hitch. After the presentation, people came up to me to thank me. Many marvelled that I'd been so open about myself and wished that they had the same kind of guts. I told them it had little to do with guts and everything to do with self-acceptance.

I wish you well, Kersten. I know you'll do this to the best of your abilities and this will be another step on your journey to health and wholeness.

Love,
CJ

Kersten,
I think this is a great thing you are doing! Like you said, these kids are the new therapist that will be working with our current and future sisters and the more they can learn the better they and we will do.
As for supporting your efforts - sorry to put the pressure on you, but just remember the 500+ sisters here that you will be representing and we want only the best for you! I know you will do great.
If you want to mess up their minds, tell them that one of the girls here on the forum is proposing the theory that true crossdressers are the next stage in human evolution. That is the ability to transistion between male and female personna. Just a thought.
Good luck girl and you will be in our thoughts!
Love ya,
Deborah

Kersten:

Working in a University setting, I can assure you that for the most part, no one will be anything but interested in what you have to say. Most people realize that this will be a rare event indeed. No one knowing of this upcoming exercise will be absent.

If I may suggest, "be yourself." Just "be." After all is said and done, if you have any concerns, it should be only for the gift to provide answers to all of their questions.

Fear is a powerful result from which we can learn that we are all just part of the human race. Their will always be nay-sayers, and those that will remark about us in a negative way. My spouse took a grade reduction in English II, becuase of her fear of public speaking. She was given a "B" instead of an "A" that she so richly deserved. I could not convince her of the quality of her work or the presentation that she wrote of. It was simply not in her then as it is not in her now, to stand up in a room with others present, just as nervous, and give a speech of any duration.

She can never go back and change that grade or give that speech. The grade, well it really isn't the grade that was important, it was her chance to overcome something that has been with her all her life and no doubt will be there for 1000 tomorrows. The ship has sailed without her!

This is your time! Your chance to present an image as you see fit. Your time to say, this is me, this is that internal person that I so warmly represent. Wear what you like, be yourself, no person will find fault except perhaps those that are still living in their childhood, and children, we can forgive.

You will be asking yourself afterward, why didn't I wear this or that, do this or that, it all went so well. So, rather than telling me so in this thread afterward, I will be with you in spirit, standing right there for you to lean on and comfort you. All you need do, is think, Danielle Marie is sitting right next to me with any answer that I need, for the answers lie inside your self and the beauty that is you cannot be dampened or suppressed, or put out. It is a raging fire, a passionate understanding for all those that live inside this forum and a desire to bring those that we talk to, closer to a better understanding of our communiy values.

P.S. Everyone present and on the otherside of the camera forgot their clothes today! They are all naked! Only you are wearing what you came on set with! They all look pretty funny don't they! Keep this pictue in mind that day during the interview. It will take a great deal of effort to keep from laughing!!! I know, that is what I do in large (250 - 700) person gatherings where I am the guest speaker or adjunct teacher.

Black slacks and a sweater are very feminine by the way and look rather neutral. Pearls are also a nice touch...... You can do it!!!!! Don't disappoint yourself.



Bless You!

Hugs

Danielle Marie

Hello Kersten,

You certainly have come a long way in a short time and it's wonderful to see.

I know it takes great courage to do what you're doing and I do believe what you are doing is proof of the great gains you have made. You are also proof of what can be achieved, you are a shining example to others both inside the TG community and outside.

Regarding depression, I'd like to draw your attention to what Gianna Israel says and I quote, " Depression is not about having one or several isolated bad or low-energy days; its about feeling badly and having an emotionally poor quality of life, day after day, with no hope of relief in sight. The preceding description reflects the state of mind that characterizes depression and lends understanding to why people do not seek treatment.

It should be noted that in providing depression treatment to transgender persons, there exist several dynamics which frequently prevent persons from seeking help. As previously mentioned, transgender persons routinely have been characterized as mentally disordered because their crossdressing and gender identity issues seem unusual to non-transgender persons. Regrettably such attitudes still exist today within the medical and mental health professions, particularly in locations that do not have access to up-to-date professional literature on gender identity issues. Both care providers and transgender persons should understand that having a transgender identity or individual crossdressing needs does not cause depression; rather they are caused by experiencing seemingly unresolvable social and circumstantial pressures. Learning effective coping skills which concurrently resolve these pressures while preserving a person’s gender identification is the correct approach in these situations. " Unquote.

It's obious you are learning those ' coping skills ' to which she refers and I'm sure the positive steps you are taking will see you emerge to be a confident success story. .

I'd also like you to read another article posted in our current gender magazine, I think it may be of interest to you.
I think it's a valid point Jenny is making about crossdressing when she says, " The aim is not to lose one gender and to replace it with another but to create a life that enables one to journey between the extremes so smoothly that each change of presentation flows from one to the other without any friction."

Her whole article follows.

Emerging Pangendered

by Jenny Lovelace

I am pangendered. I am biologically male and happy to be and to live my male-gendered life. However, I am also - and no less - a woman by gender. I love to live for extended periods – an evening out, a weekend and (planned) for weeks on end, as a woman. I cannot live as an androgyne - that is, presenting as both at the same time, with work boots and tight (!) short shorts at one end and a pretty pink bow holding back my long hair at the other. I wonder if you can guess why.

Coming out to the wider world beyond the Gender Diverse community and a very few others who understand is not an option for me. I am not a football coach, but the work I do (and love) no less prohibits me from disclosing who I fully am. People just would not understand. It is a challenge!

I am no longer sixteen. In fact many people of my age are retired. It is possible that my ambition to pass as a teenage Audrey Hepburn may be a bit beyond me. I know I cannot pass well in public. I have no interest in taking hormones. I will never undergo surgery. My make up skills need a lot of practice. There is so much I need to do improve, to become as feminine as I am able. These include such things as voice and speech work, posture and movement and the right kind of shape-enhancing underwear. Fortunately I have been an actor, singer and dancer so I know I can develop heart-felt skills given time to immerse and practice.

I have courage. It takes real courage to go out in the daytime, away from the dim lights of gay friendly night clubs and to have to talk to people whenever one needs to buy something or to ask for directions. No longer, when dressed, can I look for even a fraction of a second at a pretty girl and give away my admiration. And I certainly cannot look at any man that way, especially at my age! No longer, when dressed, can I catch anyone’s eyes unless I am communicating with them. Peripheral Vision!

Dr Anne Vitale (T NOTE #11 – Emergence, July 2002) tells us about biological emergence – when an aquatic insect rises – journeys - from relative safety at the bottom of a body of water to the surface where it must break through the surface tension to be, now transformed, a creature with wings . She compares this to people who journey from presenting as their birth genders, through a stage of presenting as both, to the time when they at last present as the gender of their choice – forever. The agony and the ecstasy of it all!

Full transition requires only one, albeit rugged, journey. For the pangendered person the journey is repeated over and over - forever. The aim is not to lose one gender and to replace it with another but to create a life that enables one to journey between the extremes so smoothly that each change of presentation flows from one to the other without any friction. We, the pangendered, emerge from being trapped in one gender role into a world within which we present now one way then the other as grasses swaying back and forth with the breeze that flows from deep within our hearts.

This will be difficult for many people to understand, both some gender diverse and, no doubt, many gender comfortable people. What they may find hard to understand is that we who are pangendered are both genders and all places between. We experience ourselves as the one whole person and the outward presentations we choose and love to adopt are merely the external presentations of the one deep and self-searching inner soul. We are the true chameleons. This is the way we are – the way we have always longed to be.

The physical changes you can see are nothing to the inner changes we must endure before we achieve the happy, fulfilling balance that is who we truly are. “It takes a psychological shift far beyond just wishing it so,” says Anne Vitale. She is talking about the one-way journey. The dance of the pangendered is a constant movement in all directions. It is the mindset of the truly pangendered that must be essentially found if the dance is to harmonise with the music of life-fulfilling meaning. There is no one-fits-all formula for either one way or all encompassing journeys. Uniqueness is a uniquely human characteristic!

If you are gender comfortable, please try to understand us, especially if you love us. Our being is no threat to you and we love you no less. We are still the same person you always knew. If you are fully transgendered please do not regard yourself as in any way superior to those of us who have no desire to change our gender presentation completely. Perhaps we are able to feel your longings no less than you whether you are FtoM or MtoF. Surely we can love each other simply for the people we are.

As a counsellor I do hope these thoughts will be of use to you, professionally or as a friend, when you are with pangendered people like me. We do not all call ourselves ‘pangendered’ but there are quite a few of us and at some time we all need help and understanding. As counsellors our own sex, sexual orientation and gender self-identification is of absolutely no importance – if, and only if, we are only, totally, concerned to see and care for the emerging souls that need our help to find and to be their own true selves.

“Success” Anne Vitale so wisely says, “is a matter of accepting what you have done, demanding space to exist and then relaxing into the situation.” It is absolutely vital for our wellbeing that we all - we the gender diverse, we who love and care for the gender diverse and we who presume to offer help – be there for each other. The rest of the world is going take time to shed its fears and wise up so it is up to us to create the strong, protective and loving world we need if we are to survive – joyfully.

Note:Dr Anne Vitale may not agree with anything I have to say but I feel her article is worth reading. It was reprinted in R-ATSAQ UPDATE the newsletter of the Australian Transgender Support Association of Queensland, Issue 30, May 2004. Dr. Vitale is a licensed psychologist specialising in gender related issues in California. Her e-mail address is info@avitale.com and her website is at www.avitale.com


Jenny Lovelace (along with her male alter ego) is a qualified and practicing psychotherapist specialising in trauma resolution support counselling.

Kind Regards.

Sally.

Kersten,

I just did a little rant on why we are subjected to all this prejudice. One reason I cited is too many of are afraid to go out in public and make a postitve difference. We fear exposure and the subsequent repercussions. What you have chosen to do is very selfless and noble. I hope someday I will have the opportunity to do the same.

After the Be-All Convention I wrote Oprah and talked about the prejudice we all face. I offered myself to act in whatever capacity she felt so long as the end result would be to ric crossdressing of it's present and undeserving stigma. Had I been contacted I would have gladly offered my help even if it meant appearing on her show. But I have yet to be allowed that chance.

I realize I went for the gold on that one. Having Oprah in your court can ease the impact of everyone who knows you find out you are transgendered. But I didn't know what else to do. Maybe contacting the local universities would be a better place to start. Going out on weekend nights to TG safe bars just isn't cutting it for me anymore.

Julie

Kersten,

As you know, you have really been a source of inspiration for me. You have counseled me on many topics related to being a transgenedered person in general, and how you are coming to terms with it.

I just can not tell you how proud I am of you! To have come so far in such a short period of time has given me hope that I don't have to waist any more of my life. I can come to terms now.

I agree that getting out and letting people see that we are in fact caring, loving human beings with needs, is the correct thing to do.

Good luck

Love always,
Elizabeth

Julie,
I am going to the SCC in Atlanta in September and that is one of the issues I hope to raise. What can we do to get our voices heard. I am also going to be looking for help in possible starting a TriEss chapter here.
Small steps, just smal steps.
Love,
Deborah

I'm at a loss for words. That is rare for me. Each of you should get a personal note from me. I'm so sorry I can't at this time. One thing please , don't put me on a pedistal. I am not an angel or a crusader. I struggle. I fail, but now I do feel happiness at times. I have only been in stores en fem 4 times this year. I'm not out declaring myself to everyone.

I felt this was only a small risk for me and took it as an opportunity to be live for people to see that I am as normal as anyone. I thought I could at least do that for these people who are becoming therapists. I was starting to think that I could not present as a good representative. Tonight, my long time regular therapist was proud of me that I would do this. She thought it would be a good experience for them to see a live cross-dresser. I asked her if I will do more harm than good? Will I look to them as a lunatic pervert or even give them the chance to see I am ok? Can I be convincing that I am happy with myself as I am? She told me my sincerity shows in everyway. She told me to show them the confidence and sincerity that she sees in me. She told me to be myself, that is good enough and that is all I need do. I cryed and I have tears now.

Thank you all for being a family I never had. I don't feel alone in the world tonight!

Love,
Kersten

Wishing you the best with this special project Kersten.

7/21/04
Hi Everyone,
Now that I have my face dried off and cleaned up, don't fear. I was up to the task despite my inner conflicts. I have learned the show must go on.

I was confident and clear-headed. I presented and took questions very well. Basically I told of my general growth this last two years. I told of my belief that we are all a composite of all human components that make us human. At some time I said that I believe gender discussion needs to evolve beyond what makes a man a man or a woman a woman. I thought it would be the greatest if all we humans could proclaim our identity and have others appreciate who we are at any moment in our constantly changing lives.

I told of the long battle to accept and appreciate the wonderful human that I am and how that in turn has caused me to look outward. Now I find myself looking at others with an eye toward accepting and loving the diversities they contribute to the world. I said that in my near past I castigated those who didn't conform to the rigid stereotypes I was raised to believe. I told how I spiritually have grown by now being able to accept diversity in all things.

I told of having so called feminine feelings and ideals at age five and up. I was open to ridicule by other children and my father. I was made to believe I was less than a real man and no one had to tell me I wasn't a girl. I told how I felt about the governor of Cal. using the words girly man as an intended insult to other politicians. Did he do harm to children by saying that? I felt yes he did. The governor is a real man, he said he will stand by his statement and not apologize. I said he might be a great governor, I don't know. But I question whether such men follow the best traditions of this country, be the best you can be?

I told of how for 28 years I thrust the stereotypical view I held a woman and a wife should be on my wife. She did not fit my definition. I realize now that neither did I fill hers. I told how we are struggling to learn to love each other again for the people we are.

I told how I have gotten so much help and support from the fine people on a forum about and for cross-dressers and their families. I told how the discussions centered not on satisfying perverse sexual needs but rather how we can be ourselves and yet fulfill all the obligations we have toward wives, children, the work place, the community, churches, and our governments. I said we are the same as the PTA. We are concerned about the same things. The only difference is we need the freedom to express portions of our feminine natures by dress.

I told that men accepting feminine traits as part of our make-up seem to me to be a good thing for our lives. Women have had gains in being able to be and perform in traditional men's roles, instead of living those lives "in quiet desperation". I feel that times need to change to allow all of us to be who we are and not live in that life of quiet desperation.

Thanks to all of you again for all that you have shown and taught me about others and myself. I include all the beautiful genetic wives or significant others who have helped and advised me on wide ranging topics. The brutal honesty everyone has given, makes this the best place to examine what is truly real. Everyone may get a different truth answer for themselves, but answers just the same.

I love you all for what you have meant to me. It may not be the truest love, but I hope it is good enough for now. I have to go try and shower a little love on my long-suffering wife, God bless her.

Kersten

Hi Kersten,

Your post is encouraging, Were you able to get any reading on how well you and/or the information was received? Id like to get some kind of a picture about that through eyes other than my own?

Darlene,
I have said I'm no hero, and I'm not. I feel now all of us do the best we can. I only felt this was something I could do, if only widening one person's view of cross-dressing.

I hope I haven't missled anyone. I was a subject for my friend in her requirement to display her book taught skills in a real life situation, meaning me. Her professor sat in on this and questioned me directly and also spoke comments to my friend. He questioned me on subject matter we covered and what if anything I had gotten out of these 10 meetings. I used this to talk of the gains I felt I had made and how she contributed to my gowth in my own self reliance and confidence in my beliefs about myself and life and people in general. Through this process I was able to bring forth all the things I mentioned earlier. It was taped to use in class discussion and the class also was watching live on tv monitors. I wanted to say to the students, I don't know who any of you are, so please if you disagree please don't hurt me. I stayed strong and didn't give in to my fear. I remained confident in how I described myself.

One meeting with my friend several weeks back she told me smiling that she just loved my toes. She told me they really were me. That made me beam. She couldn't have said anything nicer. For a moment I felt like just one of the girls.

The professor was kind and considerate and said it was great to see that I'm putting my life right after all I had been through. He commented that my views that we all are mixed bag of gender definitions was progressive and is gaining in popularity in educational fields. He seemed to agree when I commented that every person is a subset of one in humankind. I didn't use those exact words, I can't remember each word exactly.

This is the best I can describe. I don't feel this will in anyway answer your question as it doesn't answer that same question I still have. I will never know until, if the day ever arrives, that I dress completely and stand in front of a group of non cders give each a heavy stone and say here I am, how do you feel about the real me.

Thanks for the question, Darlene.

Take Care,
Kersten

Bravo, Kersten! Bravo!

Love,
CJ

kersten, Right now you are the wind that pushes my sails, I thank for representing all of us to next therapists. Like the wizard said " You done good" . .........kristen