Crossdressers-Haven.com

I submit the following which I just found while doing some research. I have never seen this before and I think it defines me to a tee. Perhaps this explains why I have no interest in some of the things others here do.

ANDROGYNE
Definition:
A biological condition resulting from hormonal miscues during fetal
washing of the brain during gender identity development. The patient
postnatally merges both polar gender identities displaying an
assortment of both masculine and feminine qualities.
Alternative names: third sex; unisex

What is a person who is Androgyne?
A person psychologically, intrinsically and socially intermediate
between male and female, displaying physical traits and manifesting a
merging of the roles traditionally stereotyped as belonging to male
and female. The primary difference between people who are Androgyne
and other individuals is that they cannot live life fully as either
men or woman because they are intrinsically both genders.

Is there a biological basis for Androgynes?
Yes. The biological basis for the inborn condition stems from an
interaction between the developing brain and sex hormones in the
first trimester. There is the formation of a gender system within the
brain that is fundamental to ultimate gender identity and gender-role
development. The person's development and individual choice
accelerates or retards the emergence or degree of characteristics,
behaviors or self-expression of their biological capability. People
manifest their condition at different stages in their lives ranging
from infancy to old age. The genetic and endocrine systems provide
a "fertile soil" for environmental influences; thus, biology creates
the capacity while nurture and individual choice accelerate the
emergence or degree of the condition.

What are the causes?
Biologically, it is the result of the process by which embryos take
on sex differences. Androgynes are the result of abnormalities in the
male and female sex chromosomes and imbalances in hormone washing of
the fetal brain. All human embryos develop in the very earliest
stages of gestation along more or less feminine lines. Those destined
to become males differentiate from the master template after a
complex series of hormonal secretions starts to masculinize the
embryo. This produces what is called the brain's hardwiring, or
subconscious mind. Miscues in this process result in crossed signals
in the portions of the brain that are responsible for gender
identity. Therefore, the brain develops with the subconscious mind of
one biological sex and the body develops with the alternating
biological sex. Years later the conflict arises when the brain and
body do not agree.
Clinical psychologists hypothesize that the psyche of all men and
women are innately androgyne (i.e., having the characteristics of
both genders). The Jungian contention is that every human being is,
in essence, a psychological androgyne, and much of the individuation
process consists in making this androgyne explicit or conscious.
Through cultural processes, however, most boys grow up to be
fully "masculine" men and most women mature into fully "feminine"
women. According to this hypothesis, these people reconcile
the "residue" of their opposite gender traits through a variety
of "acceptable" means. However, for people who are Androgyne, this
residue is significant with strong characteristics, which are
manifested to varying degrees.

What is the sexual orientation of person who is Androgyne?
Sexual identity, sexual orientation and gender identity are
independent of each other, thus a person who is Androgyne can be at
any place on the sexuality spectrum as in any other part of society.
The internal integration of a person who is Androgyne does not imply
overt changes in one's physical [e.g. sexual] characteristics.
Although sexuality and identity are intimately interwoven, the
confusion arises where the condition is equated with sexual
orientation. The fact of the matter is that the condition refers to
one's gender condition as opposed to sexual orientation. The
interchanging of the condition and sexual terms leads to confusion.

What does a person who is Androgyne look like?
Biologically speaking, a person who is Androgyne blends traits of
both of the accepted polar sexes sometimes displaying an appearance
that resembles more closely one of those sexes. Individuals merge
characteristics in subtle ways with variations on presentation and
social role, the details varying dramatically from person to person.
They have an assortment of both masculine and feminine qualities,
usually including features of stereotyped, culturally-sanctioned
roles, per formative aspects, attributes, and/or behaviors expected
of or considered appropriate for both genders. Both genders are
natural to the expression of a person who is Androgyne, yet permanent
polarization in either direction would likely bring significant
unhappiness. Individuals who alter their secondary sex
characteristics (genetically transmitted anatomical, physiological,
or behavioral characteristics that first appear in humans at puberty
and differentiate between the sexes without having a direct
reproductive function) may not self-identify as Androgyne. An
individual may accept the identification of Androgyne as consistency
and permanency develops. Some people find a partial physical
transformation of value, however, extreme actions regarding these
issues are predominantly viewed with great caution.

Treatment
Current medical/psychological practice considers the Androgyne from
the viewpoints of its socio-biological context (its relationship to
the overall functioning of individual in their social contexts),
measuring the effectiveness of diagnosis and treatment through
outcomes expressed as improvements in the patient's quality of life
and treating each patient according to their individual need rather
than by a standard, prescriptive regimen of health care. There are a
variety of sex and gender identity tests designed to measure both the
mental, or brain sex of an individual, and the social gender
conditioning that an individual has absorbed (the combined effect of
nature plus nurture). These multifaceted tests oftentimes help
individuals who are Androgyne understand themselves.

Some common misconceptions about Androgyne:
» A prevalent mistake without any factual or scientific support is
the idea that there exist two separate and "opposite" genders,
masculinity and femininity. Apart from the biological male and female
functions of breeding, the terms masculine and feminine are
culturally based ideas and not related to biology. A person who is
Androgyne (sometimes called the third sex) chooses to live outside of
socially prescribed gender roles, thus are "socially intermediate
between male and female". Intellectual and psychological adjustment,
influences, role models, personal social environment, hormonal
experience, anatomical variation, and even variations in one's
personal sensuality play important parts in facilitating one's
preference to take on the combination of traits, roles and attributes
of male and female gender.
» Despite prevalent beliefs, people who are Androgyne do not have
gender identity dysphoria (clinically diagnosed depression caused by
the sex or sexual identity that one is born with) and do not
necessarily have difficulties with their gender identities after
identification and self-acceptance.
» People who are Androgyne rarely consider themselves to be members
of the transgendered community.


RELATED INFORMATION:
Biological Determination of Gender
Biological Differences Between Genders
Differentiating Between Sex and Gender
Science and the Gender System
Copyright © 2001, Email. www.geoocities.com/info4androgyne/home - All
Rights Reserved.
Permission is hereby granted to reprint or repost provided the
document is not altered and this statement remains intact.

Hi Darlene
Fine piece of research
Thank You

Love / Marda (Green)

Darlene,
That was extremely interesting, sounds a lot like me. Except of course that there was a long period of time, I truely felt like a woman trapped inside a male body. I am not sure, it is very confusing to me.

I would not have SRS, but there was a time I would have. It is the problems that keep me from doing it, more than desire. I mean if someone could wave a magic wand and make me a real girl? I would do it for sure. The risks, the cost, the related health problems, and the lifetime maintainence required, not to mention the problems associated with socially changing make it less attractive than it was when I was 19.

So I am not certain if I am androgenous because that is what I really am, or because that is the least of all evils available to me. Perhaps with more time I will know. I am not so certain it is all that important to me now though, having pretty much decided how I am going to live my life. I will have a decidedly female appearance most of the time, and doubt I will ever dress fully in boy mode, except perhaps in divorce court, so as not to prejudice the judge against me. I don't really care what anyone else thinks. It is thier problem to deal with, not mine.

Thanks for the information though, I found it quite informative, and indeed interesting.

Love always,
Elizabeth

P.S.

That link does not work

Hi all,

Great article, Darlene. Thanks for posting it. I'm not sure how much I recognize myself in there, but I do agree with the author's view that masculinity and femininity are socially constructed.

Elizabeth,

I fixed the link. Here it is, again: http://www.geocities.com/info4androgyne/home

Love,
CJ

Thanks, Sis!!!
I do take exception with the term"abnormalities" in the article. That we,"rarely consider themselves to be memebers of the T/G community" is true in that I have read were the T/G community shuns crossdressers because we do not actively support their agenda. I need not explain why, but we all know most of us just can't. "The residue is significant with strong characteristics which are manifested to varying degrees." Oh yeah!!!! I am telling you we are the next phase in human evolution, the pioneers for the 3rd sex - the ability to transistion almost at will ... well anyway
Thanks for all you have done.
Love ya,
Deborah

Thanks Deborah,
This is somewhat of a confirmation of what I have been saying. There is biological basis for all we are. More and more will be learned in years to come. Nurture and culture also is part of who we are.

The chalenge coming to us will still be how to counteract those people who now believe we are destroyers of society. These people as a group don't believe in genetic control nor in genetic manipulation. But yet people are starting to choose to abort to get the baby gender they prefer. Gender is that important! Some are aborting babies prone to genetic diseases. When the genes are identified that can lead a person to transgenderism or homosexuality, how will society in general label these genes? In today's climate I fear those presently in control would call these genes defects and could possibly go as far as to say it would be best to eliminate these children.

Personally I believe abortion is wrong but don't believe it is my duty to force my belief on others. Currently there are policies to limit govt. reseach on stem cells which could lead to curing of many ailments. Yet these same people aren't trying to prohibit or close down fertility clinics that produce embryos by the thousands and are discarded or frozen. There are law suits now trying to decide what the rights of these frozen embryos are. Still no push from the right to close these clinics.
There is a disconnect here between rhetoric and reality.

The next revolution will be genetics and the real and moral implications there of.

Kersten

Hiya,

I can't say I understand everything I was reading there but I do believe that we are born like this. The fact that a lot of us get the urge to dress at such an early age when it is nothing sexual at all has always made me believe that.

Nice read Darlene, I'm sure in years to come more and more will be found out and maybe like some of the other girls have said we can live openly as ourselves, that would be so good!

Sophie xx

Hi Darlene,

Thanks for posting! I have always been fascinated by the subect of androgyny...

Hi Girls
It's encouraging to hear your positive reactions to some truly enlightening information. Thanx once again Darlene.

***
Sophie ... it seems the "Brightness* of this light has a definite and wonderful impact on your visible personna ... the "look" in your latest Avatar reveals senses of increasing "peace", "self-acceptance" and "growth" within you

Love / Marda

Great post! The information is consistent with other sources I have accessed over the past few weeks...so it appears that experts are in agreement with each other. (Read: "increased validity to the theory.")

My question is: where are these tests? Can we self-administer, or do they have to be administered by a qualified professional? I know I fall somewhere in between the two poles...but where, exactly, I don't know...and I don't know what the significance of my "inter-genderedness"(?) means exactly.

So many questions would follow from that knowledge: What kind of person am I? How does this affect my relationships with others? What do I need to do to be myself in the fullest sense possible? All huge, huge issues!

Hi Jessica Karen

I'm a teeney bit curious re your questions ... allow me to be *Lovingly Blunt*
***

Are you nervous about being the *Expert* on *Yourself* ???

Do you need some *BookWorms* to tell you *Who you are* ??? ... and according to *Which "Theories du Jour" they're hyping today ??? ...

Do you need a Hetero Male, Hetero Female, Homo Male or Homo Female to tell you what being Androgynous is ??? How the heck would *They* know ? ...

Does it occur to you that *You* may be the best *Expert* on *You* ?? ...

Does it occur to you that *You* have *Graduated* from the *School Where People Are Taught* and are now a part of the *School of Learning* ? ...

Does it occur to you that *You* are now an important *Part of Man's Evolution* and it will be *You* who students read about 10, 50, 100 years from now ... when they learn something about what it was like to live in the *Dark Ages of Gender Identity* ?? ...

Does it occur to you that maybe *You Are The Book* ?? ...
***
All questions raised with *Great* respect for fellow pioneers

Love / Marda

Jessica Karen,

One thing I have discovered about labels and/or boxes is that we all do not fit nice and easy into one box or the other. And understanding ourselves seems to be an inborn need, especially when it involves how we interact with the world. How ever with out labels there is no discussion.

The best definition that I have heard to date of an expert, is that they are nothing more than a drip under pressure. No matter how right one becomes, there will always be some other expert out there with a bit of information that I can use.

As in anything in this world there are extremes, and in my opinion extremes can be dangerous. On any given issue I try and look for those extremes, and try to get myself some where in the middle, which I think is a more healthy approach to life.

I wish I had more answers to give you honey, but perhaps some of the other experts here can provide you with what you are looking for, in the areas that I am less knowledgeable in?

Any way I wish you well in your search, and please share with us what you find out, so that others can continue to learn more about ourselves and this world we live in.

Darlene,

Great thread, great post, and great resonse. I don't have much to add, except that I like your approach. Extremes are rarely the correct view.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Hi Darlene ,

I agree with my sisters , that was most interesting to read.