Crossdressers-Haven.com

TGirls, My Lovelies ...
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While I was at the hospital today for my regular visit, I saw a particular employee in one of the outpatient areas ... not for the first time ... who looks very much like a F > M CD ... and who doesn't seem to care that (s)he doesn't "pass" all that easily ... funny thing - noone else seems to care either

I'll be the first one to admit I have to wrestle with some of my own "mindset" issues in this regard ... but after I was over the "staring" bit I couldn't help but ask myself a couple of questions ...

Q1. "Why couldn't I wander around doing my duties, chores etc, dressed pretty much as Mr.Spaceman does, and not unlike the way that TGuy does, with a "shirtfull of boobs", and *not* worry about being "fired", or being ridiculed and harrassed ?"

Q2. "Is there something we TGirl CDs are missing? Is there something we should be learning from the TGuys? "

I couldn't help but notice Sophie's points recently about looking at pics with her Mum who seemed to be rather nonchalant about Sophie's sister never wearing dresses or being "all that femme" ... hohum ... no biggie ... yawn ... like "she's not the first GGirl to reject the typical role and not be noticed for it" ...

It seems noone makes much of a deal about "TomBoys" ... yet it seems Governor Arnie (for one) can make endless publicity mileage for himself with garbage comments about "girliemen"
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Would someone(s) fill in a few blank spaces for me here ... Pleez???

Love / Marda

Marda,
Honey you know as well as I that it is simply society's acceptance of what "they" what to accept or reject! I also think that you will agree that the TG "community" is becoming more accepted or just ignored by the general public! Our society is becoming so jaded by television that it seems very little "shocks" us anymore. Well, ith the exception of the children in Russia being shot in the back as they were trying to run away. "Man's inhumanity to man!" Now even events like that will become part of our collective personna and if it happens again we won't have quite the outrage!
Keep the faith"
Love ya,
Virginia

Hi all,

Marda,

It was the opinion of Sara (an erstwhile member of this forum) that, in a patriarchical society such as ours, it's always much less of a shameful thing for a woman to want to aspire to the ideals of masculinity than it is for a man to want to aspire to the ideals of femininity.

Just a thought.

Love,
CJ

CJ wrote:It was the opinion of Sara (an erstwhile member of this forum) that, in a patriarchical society such as ours, it's always much less of a shameful thing for a woman to want to aspire to the ideals of masculinity than it is for a man to want to aspire to the ideals of femininity.

I read somewhere that ours is a male-driven society, or at least society views itself that way. All power supposedly derives from the masculine. Supposedly all people seek power, so for a woman to assume characteristics of a man is OK with society. By adopting the dress and manner of a woman, a man supposedly surrenders his power, so this is frowned upon.

Oddly enough, once I got over the stigma of dressing up, I began to feel empowered by it.

Hi CJ,
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Tnx for that *Just A Thought*
... sounds *Very Good* to me ... not that I *like* the revelation ...

You for one due to your academic background must have some ideas about *Why* a "patriarchal" society seems to find it so *necessary* to "defend" itself against *Motherhood* images ???
I'm *all Ears*

Love / Marda

Hi Jaye,
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You've hit on what I'm getting at ...
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Men *pursue* power (always gotta "show & prove") ... Women *have* power
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Now, are we getting closer to "why" ... I guess behind my questions ultimately is "who" ???

Love / Marda

Perhaps reflections of autumn colours will cast some new light on this question / Marda

I don't think it is always true that women are not noticed or are not ridiculed when they reject a feminine role. Certainly, where I live, I hear negative remarks being made about GG's when they choose to dress in an overtly masculine way...Geezer bird is one particularly unkind and popular phrase at the moment. 'She must be a lesbian/dyke' is something I hear a lot also.
F>M CDers do face less prejudice than M>F but it does still exist.

Love,
Curly(SO)

Jaye wrote: I read somewhere that ours is a male-driven society, or at least society views itself that way. All power supposedly derives from the masculine. Supposedly all people seek power, so for a woman to assume characteristics of a man is OK with society. By adopting the dress and manner of a woman, a man supposedly surrenders his power, so this is frowned upon.

Jaye, you've summed it up in a short paragraph. You're right on!

Girls are sweet nice creatures who attract sympathy and forgiveness. Men are a superior being who are above those things.

I can relax by becoming that sweet, useless, innocent girl, leaving all the macho pressures of my working life behind me for a few hours each day. It is like being snuggled up in a warm blanket by my Mum and being told everything is all right in the world, and not to worry. Each morning I feel refreshed and rested, ready for the next day's hassles.

So if I were to be honest I would have to say it's about escapism and self-comforting.

Does anybody else recognise these symptoms?

Hi all, I would like to share something on this thread. As most everybody knows I come from New Orleans and CDing is and everyday thing. Most people just look the other way and pay you no mine. How I have moved to the Bible belt and believe me people here DO NOT take kindly to men wearing dresses. Different part of the world different kind of people. Carol Ann

It is certainly a double standard. There is a woman who works in my department who dresses completely in men's clothing, all the time. I don't know if they are all actually made-for men things, but they are all certainly clothes that a guy could wear, shoes included. Her hair is also cut in a very mannish style.
I can't say that it doesn't go unnoticed, as I myself, have certainly noted it, but it certainy doesn't draw the kind of attention that a man in women's clothing would get.

One of the reasons I hid behind for CDing in the early days is:

Growing up with my mom the single parent, I precieved that even though the men appeared to have the power Women were just letting them weild it. The real power is in the femm form. Therfore, to have the greatest power one should be a man but dress like a woman.

I have found that as my experience in this world increases, this truisim is verified each day. In a effort to balance the forces within, Aislin Allows this body to put on manly macho clothes and work for the greater good.

Hi Gang


True power can only come from within. And one way to gain true power is to view our fellow brethern as equals This is the best way to gain true respect from another. I think the greatest leaders are the ones who view themselves as not above the people but as one of them.

As to personal power, one can gain that through learning about one's self and finding acceptence for one's self. A good level of self confidence and self esteem will help anyone achieve whatever it is they wish to. Now that's what I call power! ##oo##

*Hugs & Love*

Behind every great man is an equally or even more powerful woman, that's me.

i agree with what CJ said though...because its always been in this world, that men run things, and are said to have power, the president has never been a woman, women weren't even allowed to vote for the longest time....and for us, it's like vice versa, we're wanting to 'lower' ourselves in their eyes, i don't understand where the hate even stems from, if anything they'd just be like, hm that's weird, but people take it to a HIGHER level as far as prejudice goes.

Hi! In many technologically primitive societies it has been noted that a woman's power to bleed without being wounded is a fearful thing to the men. They fear contamination or reduction of their spiritual power, their own relationship with nature, and the society often sets aside a special place for the time of the month usually referred to as a moon hut. It also serves as a place for the birth of a child, and is a place of seclusion protected by myth and social convention. A man may often not eat food prepared by a woman during her period, and she has to be careful not to touch his tools or weapons during this time. (Given the tendency for periods to synchronize in groups of women who live together, the guys must go hungry or go visiting to another village pretty often, huh?). In part because of this mysterious thing happening to women that does not happen to men, I have thought that the second class status often ascribed to women is the result of the male fear of this unknown.

Even in our own society, women on their period are viewed as more unpredictable, less stable, and even flighty, and don't forget the preconceptions of PMS (something my little sis has used to terrify the men of her household for years, yet since I am unimpressed, she has yet to turn that on me! Not making light of her, because her time of the month has never been easy from the very first, but often she uses her period to vent to them with impunity. They just walk on eggshells around her, and she gets whatever she wants, pretty much. ) I am just saying that even in our own supposedly well educated culture which should be more aware of biological function, a woman's cycle is not well understood by most males, and a measure of that and the half fear associated with it is the crudity of the jokes they make about it.

Some cultures, during childbirth, have the couvade where the hubby has to pretend to parallel the pains and peril of the mother giving birth, and follow a seclusion rule as well. Some anthropologists view this as a support to the new mother during a dangerous time (health wise in particular) while others view the couvade as a male attempt to establish some part in the mysteries of birth and therefore some social control. Control over these mysteries is maintained rather jealously by the women of the group. It has only been in recent times that the husband in our own society has been admitted to the scene of the birth, and this as extended family has broken down and only the nurse or midwife, and sometimes a Dr., along with the components of the primary family unit are present at a birth. A hundred years ago, and even less, the husband was supported by his close kin and friends, usually outside the house around the barn or corral, or later standing around the automobiles as though they were ready to load and run, out of hearing of the birth room in the house, with lots of nervous jokes, imbibing and pacing. Still is in some few areas of the country, I guess.

So, anyway, after all that dance, I would suggest that part of the patriarchal attitude of dominance is based on a long held, primitive fear of women's mysteries and the unknowns of the biological processes.