Crossdressers-Haven.com

Yesterday my wife and I were going to go to Navy Pier to take a sailing trip on one of the boats. It would be a few hours and the skipper and Gilligan wouldn't be there to shipwreck us

When we checked the weather she said it would be too cold. So I kept prodding her for what she wanted to do. All I heard was what she DIDN'T want to do. I figured that meant another night sitting around the house doing nothing.

The day before Jacki had asked me if I wanted to go out Saturday night. Of course I wanted to but I had to consider my wife first.

When it looked bleak that we would do anything I mentioned to her that Jacki had asked if I could join her. Well she lashed out, "What about me!?" All day long I was looking for something from her, some hint of what she wanted to do, and I got nothing. Suddenly she was offended just at the mention of me getting dressed and going out as if that meant I preferred that to being with her. I had talked all day about spending the entire day and night with her but she remained non-committal. But as soon as it looked like I might make other plans she got pissed.

So I called Jacki and said I wouldn’t be joining her.

My wife and I talked for a while. I told her I felt like a dog to be there whenever she wanted me and to be ignored when she didn’t. I had to be at her beck and call. That’s how I see our relationship.

This morning I got up and she had already left for work. She works a few hours every Sunday morning then has breakfast with her best friend. I had this urge to dress up. I was thinking about doing the whole thing but I knew I didn’t have the strength to go through another battle when she came home to see me dressed. So I just put on pantyhose, bra, skirt and top. Suddenly I was happy again! I knew this is what I will wear next time out and I started thinking about going out.

When I heard what I thought was the garage door opening I realized I didn’t want to explain to her why I was even partly dressed. I have heard her ask too many times, “Why do you need to have boobs and wig?” So I got up and went upstairs and removed my clothes. As I did I started to feel extreme sadness overcome me. I was holding back crying.

I don’t want to live like this. I want to be me and not pretend to be someone else. I want out of this relationship. I’m tired of this. This scenario never ends. She keeps using my dressing as a trump card. When we argue and I have made some valid points that supports my position she will move the argument to my dressing even though the original subject had nothing to do with it. I’m tired of her hanging this over my head. I want to live a happy and peaceful life. Is that too much to ask?

Sorry to burden you with this but I just didn’t know where else to turn. Thanks for listening.

Love,
Julie

Julie,
I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this. It sounds so much like what I went through, though I did not even have anything like dressing to find solace in. My husband treated me the very same way; He didn't want to do anything with me but wouldn't tolerate me doing anything without him.
What I think is that she is very unhappy, you are very unhappy and the dressing is just the easiest, most obvious topic to make the excuse for discord. You deserve to be happy, dressed or not. She deserves to be happy too. If you cannot be happy together, don't be together.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think divorce is something that should be taken lightly. It took me about three years and a couple of therapists to come to the understanding that it had to end. And in the end, it was like the weight of the world was lifted. Even the kids were so much happier: a happy mom makes happy kids.
Do what you need to do to make yourself happy. I, as a gg, would only ask you to not make your dressing the center of everything. I realize it is a huge part of you, but you are so much more than that.
The man I'm with now, a CD, and I made an intellectual connection with first which allowed him to see I could accept his Maria side from the beginning. I accept his dressing as part of our life but as I have to remind him: Maria's cool but I don't want all Maria, all the time. Compromise is very important and it sounds like you have that capacity.
I really hope you can find the happiness you deserve.
Terri

Hi Julie

I want to live a happy and peaceful life. Is that too much to ask?

Nope, it is not too much to ask for. Everyone deserves to be happy. But to gain what you are seeking, you must make the necessary changes within yourself and in your life. You are the ONLY person who can make yourself truly happy and content. Noone else can do that for you.

Sorry to burden you with this but I just didn’t know where else to turn. Thanks for listening.

No need to apologize This is what friends are for

Wishing you the best of luck and the brightest blessings

*Hugs & Love*

Hi Julie I know you would like to hear words of encouragement and things will work themself out. But sometimes they don't. There are times when an end must come. Marrige can not be a one way street, if it is to survive. I really feel sorry for you, your kids, and your wife, the future looks rough for all of you. I can't say I know what you are going through, because I don't know. I do know that you have emotional pain, I can read it in your words. These words we give are just our opinions and it's up to you and your wife to decide what is best. Whatever the outcome, I hope your future is bright and enjoyable.
My good Friend.
Love Amelie

Hey Julie, all you have to do is change the name from Julie M. to Virginia and we have pretty much the same sceinario as you know, mine has gone to the final stage however. She wants to split everything and we are in the process of trying not to involve attornies and courts and all that. It ani't easy. I can so identify with your situation. "Honey, what do you want to do?" "I don't care!" Want to go out to eat?" "I don't care." Where would you like to go?" "I don't care!" wait, wait, wait. "you want to go now?" "I don't know?" So you pick a place finally go and when you get home you get both barrels -" I did not want to go there, the food was terrible, why can't I pick the restaurant?" etc., etc., Sorry, Julie, we can't win!!!!! Fortunately I don't have any children to deal with and I am tired of being treated like a leper, so we are going our separate ways and I will get more involved in other things and as was said crossdressing will NOT become the center piece of my existence, but like you, I love how I feel when Virginia is dressed, Even just riding around town in the car is a great feeling.
Hang in there, honey! Consider all the alternatives, but I, like you feel life is to short to be miserable and if you are and there are ways to be happy, go for it!!!!
Love ya,
Virgina

Hi Julie,

Unfortunately, I have been in a relationship where my partner used my CDing as a way to blame me for everything that was not perfect in our relationship. When unhappy, everything turned to my CDing even if it had been dormant for a long time. It increased my guilt level and ultimately made me resentful of her. I eventually left and I am so much happier with someone who gives me space. Being intolerant of CDing is not really that different from being intolerant of anything else you do as far as I am concerned.

It sounds as though you still have two options. You can spend some time being very direct and emotionally accessible in trying to explain the need for time and space or you can part. Both options are very difficult. In either case, you deserve happiness. There are limits to how much you must sacrifice.

All the best,

Chantelle

Hi all,

Julie,

I'm sorry to hear you're going through such a rough time.

You know, Jassmine has a point; nobody but yourself can make you happy (oh, you can share your happiness with a loved one and thereby increase it--but to "get" it in the first place is nobody's "work" but your own). This goes for your wife, too. It almost looks as though she has trouble defining what her own interests may be--apart from your role in them--or what it is that's out there that might fire up her own enthusiasm. That puts a heavy load on you; it's quite a responsibility securing another person's happiness. When you fail to do so, that person may resent you (sometimes, this resentment can be blatantly irrational and it'll come out in ways that are "convenient" for the person who's frustrated but that are unfair to the person who's a target of that frustration). Unless I'm mistaken, Virginia's in the same kind of situation.

What can be done? I don't know. I guess it depends on the particular couple. What's worked for me in the past--because I've been there, too--is a temporary separation... long enough that each "half" can, first, get a better handle on what some of their interests and passions, away from the other, may be, and, second, have a chance--by missing them--to begin to remember all the things they love and cherish about the other person. If both halves of the couple have no interests of (and on) their own as well as miss nothing the other has to offer, it may be time to end the relationship.

Gibran's Prophet has this to say about marriage:

You were born together, and together you shall be forevermore.
You shall be together when white wings of death scatter your days.
Aye, you shall be together even in the silent memory of God.
But let there be spaces in your togetherness,
And let the winds of the heavens dance between you.
Love one another but make not a bond of love:
Let it rather be a moving sea between the shores of your souls.
Fill each other's cup but drink not from one cup.
Give one another of your bread but eat not from the same loaf.
Sing and dance together and be joyous, but let each one of you be alone,
Even as the strings of a lute are alone though they quiver with the same music.
Give your hearts, but not into each other's keeping.
For only the hand of Life can contain your hearts.
And stand together, yet not too near together:
For the pillars of the temple stand apart,
And the oak tree and the cypress grow not in each other's shadow.

Even in a relationship (hell! especially in a relationship!), people need a bit of room to grow, room to move, room to occasionally stand back and see both themselves and their spouse from a broader vantage point. To do that, she musn't be afraid to be left to her own devices when you move away a bit. Do take that time to follow your bliss, Julie, even as she searches for hers. Who knows? You both may find something you feel is worth sharing with each other, after all. If not, I think it really is time to look at other options--options that, unfortunately, don't include a shared life. Sad but true.

I hope this helps. Please remember: all this may be a load of nonsense to you and in no way apply to your situation. That's perfectly okay, too. It's just what's worked for me, is all.

I hope things'll soon be looking up for you, Julie. You're in my thoughts.

Love,
CJ

Julie,

Believe me – I know from whence ye come!!! And it’s not a comfortable place to be either. What you DO have going for you is at least some degree of acceptance, understanding, and tolerance for your femme side. I know this isn’t the time to be telling you that, but it’s true. There are a LOT of us whose wives won’t even tolerate any aspect of our crossdressing (mine is at the top of the list) but we’ve cared enough for them through the years (36 in my case) to sacrifice any references to our crossdressing in an effort to make them happy and keep the fuss-fights to a minimum.

And as Virginia said in her reply:

I can so identify with your situation. "Honey, what do you want to do?"
"I don't care!"
“Want to go out to eat?”
"I don't care.”
“Where would you like to go?"
"I don't care!"
. . . . . .wait, wait, wait.
"you want to go now?"
"I don't know?"
So you pick a place finally go and when you get home you get both barrels:
" I did not want to go there, the food was terrible, why can't I pick the restaurant?" etc., etc.

Then Chantelle said in her reply:

I have been in a relationship where my partner used my CDing as a way to blame me for everything that was not perfect in our relationship.

And

Being intolerant of CDing is not really that different from being intolerant of anything else you do as far as I am concerned.

I too, grow tired of attempting to deny and keep hidden the other personality inside me, and like Chantelle has mentioned it seems that anything and everything that goes awry in my relationship is somehow referenced back to my being a crossdresser. And this is regardless as to whether it had anything to do with crossdressing or not. The really odd thing is that if we (and I’m talking about all of us crossdressers here) who have no support from our wives, had the ability to suddenly get rid of the crossdressing AND THE PERSONALITY CHARACTERISTICS THAT GO ALONG WITH IT, I don’t think it would take long before these unsupportive wives would be wishing they had their original person back. The reason I’m saying this is because whether we realize it or not, or our WIVES realize it or not, a lot of the traits they like about us are directly related to the fact that we are crossdressers.

Now. . . . (sorry I got a little side tracked there), your wife isn’t unique in the actions you described. There are feminine traits that GGs have which, believe it or not, we DON’T like and we DON’T have any desires to emulate. That ‘fickleness’ is one of them. Add to that the fact that a lot of GGs swing from full acceptance at times to “wishing it would just go away” (hormonal influences, maybe???) sometimes and they are occasionally on an emotional roller coaster. We, as MALES, need to recognize that this IS going to happen from time to time and we need to try to be as understanding of their attitudes at the times when they’re in one of those ‘LOWS’ as some of them are about us when we’re on one of our “femme HIGHS”. So give her a little space and some time to cool down. Then when things are back to somewhat of a normal pace, try to talk about it and in rational voices discuss how she made you feel and WHY you felt that way. Then let her tell you how SHE felt and WHY. It’s communication like this that can head of further problems.

Dixie
http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

You know sometimes I think I HAVE to be the Rock of Gibraltar, the tough one, the one who can solve everything for everyone. Partly due to the way I was raised and partly to my life's experiences and I suppose partly due to my personality, I too often believe that. I have so often been the one to give without any expectations of getting back. That has never bothered me, in fact I enjoy that I have helped someone. Seeing their happy face makes me happy.

So I create these scenarios in my life because I am the giver who expects nothing in return. But eventually I want to get something. I want to be appreciated and I want it to be genuine and unprompted. Suddenly I am the one who is asking or demanding something but I don't tell anyone. And I just expect them to know. Then I become resentful that I am seemingly taken for granted. I need to communicate better.

Yesterday my wife is all upset. She was mad because she felt I wanted to go out dressed more than I wanted to be with her. I told her, "You don't understand! I want to be with you but you don't want to be with me when I am me. I have to be a person that fits your expectations but when I want to express myself outside of that you say 'Not with me!'" I would love to spend time with her while I was dressed. In fact I'd prefer it but she'll have none of it. In reality she's rejecting part of who I am. I wonder how the SOs would feel if their husbands rejected part of them????

CJ, you read me like a book. Everything you said clicked. As I read your post I thought you must know us (my wife and I). The burden of being responsible for someone's happiness all the time is too much. When I've talked to her about it she thinks I am blaming her for something. I saw me and my wife when I read your post.

Today we went to Navy Pier and took a cruise on a tall ship. The weather was nice and she seemed very relaxed. We later walked the pier and then stopped at a Mexican restaurant and had a drink. Then we headed home. After we were home for a while and watching TV she came up to me and kissed me on the cheek and thanked me for the day. I thought about yesterday and then today and felt I must be on the biggest roller coaster life has to offer. One day you're down, the next you're up.

But I wasn't up. I'm not sure I can really say why but 10 or 15 minutes after that I got up to strecth my legs. As I walked around I suddenly felt this overwhelming sadness. I started to cry. I thought about how much I had wanted to go out last night, about how right it feels being dressed, about how I have to hide part of me, about so many other things. She never heard me or even knew. I kept it to myself.

So now I wonder, "What the hell am I doing? How many times will I go through this? Will I ever find peace?" I know that's all up to my and I thank you all for helping me with this. Thursday is couples counseling. Maybe I'll be able to get some of this on the table then.

Thanks everyone for all your support! The Rock isn't much of a rock and I know I don't have to pretend to be that here.

I love you all,
Julie

Hi Julie--
No, I know that I couldn't handle that roller coaster of up one day, down the next. I went through it at least three times in my life in living-together set-ups, and again toward the end of my last relationship. Did counseling in two of those situations; it postponed the breakup for a while.

I don't say this is where you're headed, but only mention it to say-I know some of what you're experiencing. I have a very low tolerance for that kind of life, when it goes on for weeks and months.

It almost happened that my ex-GF was going to come back to this area to meet girl-me at a street fair, but it's not going to happen now. We see each other so seldom that I don't think it's fair to make her spend time with Anita, but I had told her that it creates distance between us as friends. So it's a stalemate right now.

I'm glad you have the counseling session coming up.
A

Julie ,

I will just add one thing ,

You are you ,
you are who you are,
( wheather you are crossdressed or not you are still Julie ! ).

Nobody can take that away from you !

Please dont be sad , there are some partners that just dont understand.

Merinda Widget wrote:you are who you are

Thats what my Mum said to me, best advice EVER!

Julie I hope your feeling better, I know it's not fair like when you need to go out or something and you have to get the makeup off in a hurry, it hardly seems fair.

Still, just enjoy dressing up when ya can, that's what I do and when you can't dress up just look forward to the next time

Sophie xx

Hi Julie,

You don’t have to let her words control your actions. If you feel like partially dressing or fully dressing, then just do what YOU please. It is your right to do so, especially on your day off. No one deserves to feel like the “child who needs permission” in any relationship or marriage.

Hope everything works out for you.

Julie, you and your wife are not much different from a lot of CD/SO couples. In fact, your going out dressed with friends far surpasses anything a lot of us have done. If I went out fully dressed, my wife would pack her bags and head to TX. So, to me it seems as though she has not rejected a part of you, but has only placed limits on it.

Your desire for CDing appears to be overwhelming not only your wife, but you too. Your crying/feeling better jags indicate how ovewhelming that desire is. Has your wife seen the crying and asked about it, or have you hidden it just like a man? Your counselor needs to know this is occurring. Lots of guys can't admit to crying, but if the counselor doesn't have all the facts, he/she can't do his/her job properly.

For her, she wants to see more of the man she married. Seeing you in a wig and with boobs, she sees herself loosing the man she married. Many SO's go through this. It's to be expected. My wife has, but it's never permanent. One of the biggest things that eats at them is the thought that the husband wants to be or look like a woman 24/7, not just dress up occasionally.

And I disagree with any advice of "just do what you want". Marriage is a two way street, give and take, respect for each others feelings. If she says, quit or else, and you say, I'll do what I want when I want, there is no respect left, no give and take, no marriage.

Personally, I'd really really appreciate it if my wife and I could go out while I was dressed, and I continue to slowly work on this. However, I do try to see things from her perspective. Currently, when we go out M/F, we hold hands, kiss, display affection in public. Would I do that if she were looked like a man (F2M CDing), and everyone around thought I was being affectionant to another man? Honestly, no, I couldn't do it. So I could not expect the same thing from her, if we were out dressed as two women.

Sure, I could go out and "hang" with her as friends if she preferred to F2M crossdress, and I expect no less from her. BUT, and that is a big but, if we were out more and more with her in F2M mode, would I see it as loosing my wife? I would hope not, but can't say without experiencing it.

So, already I know if she were to agree to accompany me out while I'm M2F CDing, and indicated that she was having a problem with it, I would limit such outings to what she could put up with. After all, currently it is zero, and going back to zero, though disappointing, would be doable. I can live with dressing at home.

If she asked me to stop CDing altogether? Well, she has before (a few times), but I always let her know I can't quit. She knows it will never go away. I continue to be thankful what she does tolerate.

Additionally, it sounds like you both are experiencing forms of depression. Her with the lack of deire for going out and doing things, you with the crying and anger. If so, I would suggest taking a supplement for omega-3 fatty acids to fight depression. For example, http://www.coromega.com/index3.html It can't hurt to try it.
[/url]

[/quote]No one deserves to feel like the “child who needs permission” in any relationship or marriage.

Very well put Lorna!