The Cross-dressers Driving force

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:38 am

Hi all I have been doing some more research, and have come up with this.

Life is filled with many losses, conflicts and traumas This can lead to varying degrees of emotional distress. This forces us to seek bliss in many forms. We all need to develop an inner soothing, an inner cooing, We seek it in our relationships with others, and with ourselves in our art, our play, and our work. This drive is so strong that some of us begin to demand that others provide it for us.

Failing to find it...I believe is the root cause...that forces one into unhealthy situations where one turns to alcohol, and drugs, or other dangerous activities.

Cross-dressing provides this bliss for me, Indeed it is a gift that I cherish. It sets us all free we don't need to depend on others to provide it. And I do not feel responsible for providing it for others.

I believe it is the pursuit of bliss that is the driving force behind my needing to cross-dress.

Love Darlene.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:04 am

Darlene,

This is kind of a from the hip answer, but I am not so sure I agree that it is the root cause. The reason I say that is because while I do feel bliss, that does not wholey describe what I feel. Bliss is just a part of what I feel. Soothing is just a part of what I feel.

I can not quantify exactly what it is I feel, but it seems it is much more than just bliss or soothing. It seems to be about who and what I am. There have been times I dressed where I did not have much time, and the result was incredible stress. Not to mention the stress of hiding clothing, and the secret as a whole. I have continued to dress when I knew it was going to anger my SO, which for sure was going to bring more stress.

I know dressing fulfills a need. And yes, I do feel bliss and soothing, and a sense of myself that I don't get any other way. However, my need to dress is all encompassing. I feel the need to dress all the time and I certainly don't feel bliss all the time. However, even when I am sad or even crying, I still would not want to take my girls clothes off.

Perhaps you are correct and we are just mingling over words here, about what the feeling is caled. I will be interested to see what my sisters here feel about this.

Love always,
Elizabeth

CJ · Post by CJ » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:49 am

Hi all,

Hmmm... interesting viewpoint, Darlene.

I'm not sure what your sources are for the research, but you make it sound as though crossdressing is the outcome of a voluntary process. I'm just not sure that's the case. From almost all the sources I've read (and MedLine is a good place to start; it's where sexologists, among others, publish their papers), Gender Dysphoria is always considered to have subconscious roots in our childhood... even if we "take up" crossdressing only much later in life.

There are some things, I think, we are entitled others provide for us. For example, children are entitled to a secure and loving home. It's expected. An employer is entitled to honesty and integrity on the part of an employee (and vice versa). It's expected. A spouse is entitled to moral, emotional, and material support (that "entitlement" is called a marriage, "for better or for worse"). It's expected. I do see what you're saying, though (and you know I agree with you on this one); it's when we make our sense of entitlement the cornerstone of our happiness that trouble comes. That I do agree with. Could it be, Darlene, that, because of the work you do, you've just seen too many relationships and individuals destroyed by a sense of "over-entitlement" and that this is what makes you so fiercely emotionally independent? Just a thought. In the end, it would be nice to not need anyone to provide us with anything. I just don't think that's very realistic an expection for so social a creature as a human being. Even Thoreau himself had to leave Walden Pond once in a while in order to "deal" with other people... a way for him to "get" from others what he couldn't on his own; a way for him to "ground" himself in his own humanity. This very forum is a good example: it provides many of us with an emotional boost that is the very reason we come here. It's something we do need from others (okay, admittedly, either here or in "real" life, it matters little).

Again, a thought-provoking post, Darlene. Thank for sharing.

Love,
CJ

Julie M. · Post by **Julie M.** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:40 pm

For me this is not bliss or an escape, it's wearing the clothes that feel right on me. I find relief not from wearing women's clothes but from getting out of men's clothes. I'll become anxious and frustrated when I have to wear men's clothes for too long because I just don't feel right in them. I can wear women's jeans, tops, underwear and still look male but I don't feel male and I'm okay then but if I'm in all male clothes too long I start to get uncomfortable.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:23 pm

CJ

Could it be, Darlene, that, because of the work you do, you've just seen too many relationships and individuals destroyed by a sense of "over-entitlement" and that this is what makes you so fiercely emotionally independent?

I appreciate your concern CJ. I find it interesting that you view me as being fiercely emotionally independent. I feel that my emotional needs are being adequately met. Perhaps they are just being met through a different source?

I am not sure what your reference means by the kind of work I do? I am retired. and before that I was involved in the building trades industry. What I have to share here is the result of my journey out of a very confusing and abusive life. (and I am not complaining about that)

But once again thanks for your concern.

Some other comments:

you make it sound as though crossdressing is the outcome of a voluntary process.

The first article of clothing that I tried on was a pair of my Auntie's panties.(mostly out of curiosity) Since that time it has been a voluntary decision, due the rewards that it provided, Along with the fact that nothing else in this world will provide for me what that provides. Although it now requires much more than panties.

There are some things, I think, we are entitled others provide for us. For example, children are entitled to a secure and loving home.

Could you help me out here. What does that mean? How does that look in real life? Who or what ensures that that will be a reality?

As a child that was not my experience, and there are many homes today where that is not their reality.

Yes I agree with you, It's expected, But what good is that when it does not materialize.

We too as cross-dressers have those same rights but what good does expecting them do? Is it not the same principle that we are dealing with?

How does that all work out ? How does it all fit together?

I really want the in-put of others here, and don't intend for this to become a situation where you and I are airing out our differences of opinions. I have responded to what I believe are some of your assumptions. and am not interested in getting into any side issues.

I would like to say feel free to PM me, and I would welcome that, with the understanding that I am not interested in changing any of your beliefs. or defending mine. (that is not why I am here) I will however attempt to answer any questions you might have.

Love Darlene.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:46 pm

Julie thank you for responding to this thread. I had you in mind when I started this thread. I would really like to be able to understand people like you more than I do.

Could you please elaborate on some of the things you wrote?

I too find relief from getting out of men's clothes. But that statement has raised another question. Would you then feel relief from being naked?

When I get out of male clothing and am naked I do feel that I have escaped when I put on the women's clothes I feel Comforted, soft, and soothed, which I define as bliss.

Is it different for you?

The rest of your post I could have written myself. I am curious as to what is pushing you to transition? Yet I don't have that need.

Love Darlene.

Gelinda · Post by **Gelinda** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:55 pm

Darlene

I can't answer a lot of what you are saying but I do disagree as some of the others have.

I do not think it is a voluntary process. I base this on my own account only. If it was voluntary then I could destroy it in my mind and it would go away. It is like my drinking problem as long as I do not drink at all (alcohol) then I do not have a problem but if I drink one then I can't stop until I am passed out. The doctors tell me it is from my genes and there is nothing I can do about it except not drink. But when major bad events and uncontrolable things in my live happen then what is the first thing I go fore and can;t stop myself most of the time from. ALCOHOL. I truly believe that the CD issue is the same, it is from out genes or a chemical imbalance in ourselfs.

Gelinda

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:01 pm

Gelinda, and others,

Please who said it was a voluntary process? Who are you disagreeing with? I am rather surprised at some of the responses. I suggest that if there was something else that you could find to do, that would surpass the benefits that cross-dressing provides that you would voluntarily switch without a hitch.

My original post said nothing about why some of us feel the bliss that we do. In other words it does not attempt to address the reason why we are cross-dressers, or what made us that way. It instead suggests that because we like what it provides for us (that can't be provided any other way) We voluntarily want to experience that, as much as we need to in order that we can feel good in our own skin.

And it suggests that is the driving force that makes us want to repeat it. Again it does not attempt to suggest that it has anything to do with why we are cross-dressers.

Among other things I used to be an alcoholic, while I was an alcoholic I was also a cross-dresser, and I used to cross-dress while I was drunk. In fact many times I needed to be drunk in order to cross-dress. That was while I was still in denial about being a cross-dresser. (Oh and also I was in denial about being an alcoholic) Alcohol deadened my conscious, it was an attempt to escape reality. It did not provide the bliss that cross-dressing provides. It is like trying to compare apples and oranges. I drank to escape denial, I now cross-dress to enjoy life. And that my friends is a voluntary decision that I have made. I can quit and did for eight years, but I choose to return, because it is the only way that I can experience the bliss of feeling good in my own skin. And that is the driving force that caused me to resume the activity of cross-dressing.

But when major bad events and uncontrolable things in my live happen then what is the first thing I go fore and can;t stop myself most of the time from. ALCOHOL.

Sounds familiar no roses (bliss) to be found there.

Love Darlene.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:19 pm

CJ

I just came across this on another forum that really speaks to the situation here, as I see it. And it is the reason I responded as I did to you in this thread.

It hurts me to try and justify my self, or prove my self "right," at the expense of others. It is their well-being that is foremost on my mind, not mine. And I am not interested in going there.

That is why I have invited you to discuss these things privately.

I hope this helps.

Love Darlene.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:06 am

Hi girls,

Darlene wrote:

I too find relief from getting out of men's clothes. But that statement has raised another question. Would you then feel relief from being naked?

Very good question. For me this is an unequivical yes. It's a spectrum of comfort.

Bad<===============================================>Great

Boy clothes....no clothes....no clothes/body shaved....Girl clothes/makup

Being in boy clothes really does make me uncomfortable. Much more now that I am acclimated to wearing women's clothes all the time, than it used to. Just getting out of boy clothes causes instant releif. I can see my shaved body and painted toenails and it makes me feel better. Being in boy clothes is what I imagine it would feel like to impersonate a priest or a doctor or a cop. It feels like fraud. Not just to the public, but to myself. So just getting out of them is a serious improvement.

From there it is matters of degrees. Being just naked used to bring releif, but then I needed to get rid of my body hair. I hated it, and only kept it for the benifit of others. So being naked and having my body shaved is up on the scale. Being naked, having my body shaved and having my nails polished and/or having makeup on is an improvement on just being naked and hair free. And of course at the high end of the scale is having my body shaved, having nail polish on, having makeup on, and being in female attire including accessories.

It is apparent from all the posts I have read here, and even polls I have conducted on this matter, that everyone does not feel this level of distress with thier bodies. One of the most important things for me, and I can only speak for me here, is not having to lie about who I am anymore. This is incredibly important to me. Having to keep this secret for so many years has damaged me more than any kind of rejection ever could have. Knowing this prevents me from lying about who I am now. I can hold my head high when I am out, because I know the only alternative is to lie about who I am.

I have come to beleive that crossdressing for some is to make them feel better, but for others, it is not to feel bad. And for others it is somewhere inbetween.

That is one girls opinion.

Love always,
Elizabeth

CJ · Post by CJ » Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:26 am

Hi all,

Darlene,

I'm sorry; I was under the impression you were an attorney. I stand corrected. The lawyers I know (admittedly very few) tend to be skeptical about the possibility of our getting our emotional needs met in human relationships. That's all I meant.

You will not hear from me further in this thread, I promise.

Peace,
CJ

Jassmine(SO) · Post by **Jassmine(SO)** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 12:10 pm

Hi Darlene

From what I gathered from your original post is that you are talking about free will. One always has a choice....One can choose to do whatever one wishes be it either for good or ill, to themselves or others. Am I guessing correctly???

*Hugs & Love*

Kersten Lee · Post by **Kersten Lee** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:14 pm

Hi,

More and more these days, I am beginning to think that free-will can also be an illusion for some people. I am not making a sweeping statement. I always believed free will is absolute, because that is what I was taught through Sunday schools and church.

I tried to talk my wife out of marrying me 30 years ago. I told and showed her the evidence that badly abused children become abusers themselves by a majority percentage. I told her it was set in stone and that I would never have children. I would not chance doing to my children what was done to me. I took her to meet my family to cause her not to marry me. I was then a kind and considerate person. She saw that I was a child and she believed she could help me to be happy. She took me in like she had done with hurt birds or a sick puppy. She did so many things to save me and I returned the favor with abuse. I could never believe I would abuse the woman that I thought I loved and depended on for my sanity and continued life. Yet this I did. When I did it, I knew I chose to, but you must believe even during the horrendous acts I didn't want to, but could not stop. I believed, like I was told as a child, that I was evil.

Some may say I was possessed by evil, they may say I chose to do evil. Neither was true. I was systematically brainwashed as a child to believe that I was evil and that those around me were evil. Anyone can say that I had free will, believe me I did not.

Through two years of therapy I have learned to view myself and others more realistically. I slowly, with a very bumpy ride of ups and downs, have had more and more ups and fewer and fewer downs. I have found through knowing myself and finding the basis of what I am, I am becoming free to choose. It is becoming my choice to be happy or sad or mad. I am free to have a range of emotions and expressing them. As Darlene has said so many times, her happiness is not dependent on others. Neither should others define depression or hate for ourselves.

I once believed I was born with a genetic tendency to love feminine traits and in turn led to cross-dressing. I dressed to cope, to give myself comfort, and to feel feminine so that I would not feel the male in me. My dad is a horrible example of humanity. I have hated men all my life, but barely learned to function with them around because it was a requirement for me to survive and succeed in the world as it is.

We are all born with our own unique mix of gender traits. Parents and all the external nurture imputs work on and with what we were born with. For myself I had these majority feminine traits and probably with a more normal loving family would have grown up to be a sensitive man as I am. It is impossible to tell today what could have been. I have finally accepted, for some time now, that I will never know all the answers.

Currently, I dress in woman's clothing always when at home. Yes, I would rather be naked and am sometimes naked at home, rather than be dressed in mens clothes. I love my feminine side and wouldn't give it up for the world. I am right being me and the part of the world that disagrees is wrong!

Dressing still gives me peace and comfort. The big thing that has changed for me is that I am not desperate to dress because I must. I used to do it to survive all the hurt and pain that came from with in or what I took in from others. Now I do it because I am free to do so, and it makes me happy to be me. I have no desires to transition and never have, but I now do understand why some of you must to complete the person you are and to exist in happiness as you really are.

Darlene, I hope I didn't take this off topic. I don't think so, but if I did, please forgive me. You always seem to put out questions that I could never conceive or ask, but I always love to respond. Thank-you.

Kersten

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:44 am

Kersten,

WOW! What you have written is not because Darlene said it, It has been written because that is your reality. you are experiencing it, and that is neat.

My heart is happy for you. The thread did go off what I intended from the topic, but that is never a problem with me. Especially when it has this kind of stuff in it.

To say it another way, the person who is dependent on others for their happiness is not a self controlled person, because they are giving me (or others) the power to make them un- happy. And if I can make you un-happy. then you will need to spend some time dealing with that, and those who have not learned how to get rid of that are controlled by it for God knows how long.

And when one is loaded down with that kind of baggage it prevents them from focusing on the kind of things that will benefit their lives. Which renders them unable to make the appropriate choices. Just like you said.

Love Darlene.

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:41 am

Jassmine,

Kersten has just answered your question in part for me.

As long as one is in denial they are unable to make a conscious choice, and are driven. It is probably an unconscious choice at that stage.

But basically I think you are correct.

Love Darlene.