Crossdressers-Haven.com

Hi all

Originally this was wrote as a response to another thread, but once finished I thought it might hijack the thread so I am posting it here instead.

I am not more than one person, I am a person who feels right in my own skin when dressed in womans clothing. I am also a person who appreciates the fact that I was born with the body of a male. And am grateful that I do not want to spend the time outside of my home presenting myself as a woman.

The reason I am like this is because the more I wear womans clothing the more some of it becomes normal, (no special treat, no special feeling,) just more comfortable. It is a treat to come home change out of my male clothing, and slip into something more comfortable.. It is a treat to lounge around in my panties a night dress and a house coat with a wig as I am doing today. It is a treat to save the special womans clothes that I have for those times when I need to feel special.

At times I need to dress in male clothing so that I can continue to appreciate the simple enjoyment of just feeling comfortable in the likes of what I am wearing today. As in anything else a steady diet of something begins to loose it's appeal, and soon becomes mundane.

To make the point in what I am trying to say, I will use an example of a brother in law who is a faller. Who was employed in a logging camp where the company served steaks every day. The crew ended up going on strike because there was no variety, and they began to hate steak.

For me the same principle applies. If I dress in my finest every day, the finest becomes normal and I need to keep finding different outfits etc. in order to feel special. For some (maybe not all of us) pushing the envelope could be responsible for pushing us further. I feel that is true in my life, and would like to be able to balance it out to where I am able to get my needs met, with out going any further than I need to.

Does this makes sense?

Hey Sis, I thiink I understand what you are saying. Is it that the male determines what Darlene will wear at any given time? What ever the mood happens to be at that time determines the style of dress?! I guess I come at it from a different way. If I understand your other comments you do not quite understand what drives me to Virginia or Virginia to me and I can accept that as I don't know that I quite understand it other than I know it exists and happens. That is, Virginia has in mind what she wants to wear, so when I/we survey the closet and chose an outfit she already know how she wants to look and what she wants to wear.
I guess it goes a lot deeper than we/ I understand what forces drive us to select outfits, make-up to go out in public or not, how often we dress, what we wear. As I said before, I may not know or understand other than the fact that I love it and what it does to and for me.

Love,
Virginia

Hi Sis.

No I am not saying that the male decides what I will wear. I often ask myself what I want to wear and if I listen intently enough I am usually told what I should wear, and if I am obedient, I am never disappointed. I don't put an identity to the person I ask other than it being me, or perhaps my inner child. At any rate it is defiantly my inner self. whether that is Joe or Darlene does not matter to me, I just see it as part and parcel of being who I am.

I only do this when I am in the mood for something special. At other times I just wear what ever appeals to me in the immediate moment, but it is womans apparel all the time that I am at home.

From reading your post it appears that we are probably coming from the same place, just communicating it differently. And although I once had the desire to go out dressed as a woman, and did so earlier in life, but only at night when I could be alone. I no longer have that need.

That happened many years ago before I was able to get past the denial stage. So I can't even truly say that I understand that need in you as you are well past that point. I think that is the only part of you that I would like to understand more, but probably won't be able to. but it is fun trying as long as I can do it in a way that does not hurt you.

Love Darlene.

Hi girls,

I am having trouble with this no matter what thread is it in. There is only one me. I think that because I don't feel a need to present as male, that I just don't have the feelings that many of you have. I believe that I tend to be more on the extreme side of crossdressing, because I don't see it as fullfilling a need. I see it as who I am.

I feel absolutely no need to present myself as male, anytime, other than for legal precedings where other have direct control over my life and my be prejudiced against me, for dressing as a female. Once these preceedings are over, I do not see myself dressing in male clothing, unless something changes from how I feel right now. For instance if I were to have to return to work, and could not get a job as a transgendered person. I would have to go back to dressing as a male, but not as a preference, only as a matter of necessity.

So it is not a matter of feeling comfortable in female clothing, for me it is a matter of feeling very uncomfortable in male clothing. I love being able to wear makeup everyday, and have nail polish on all the time. Not being ablt to do these things, would definitely take away from my quality of life, and how I feel about myself. I would go to a fairly great extreme, to avoid having to go back to wearing male clothing, and present as a male.

Because of this, it makes me much different than most of you, who still enjoy being a male, and presenting as a male. Because I don't have a male mode and a female mode. I only have one mode. And even when I am in boy clothes, I am still the same person. When I have no makeup on, or clothes, I now still see Elizabeth in the mirror.This is further complicated by the fact that I do still desire to be with women sexually as a man, but emotionally as Elizabeth. This is all very confusing. I have just come to accept it.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Hi Darlene,

Yes your first post makes sense and it was stated very eloquently. What I mean is I understood what you meant about both sides male and female dress. I also understood the part about dressing all the time in the best can get old too. You're right steak all the time is not variety and I also like variety. Maybe I should refer to it as duality. I'm probably not wording my understanding of your post too well, but I really did get it.

I am sort of the same. I like to dress nice as a guy. I'll be honest, I enjoy the attention gals give me. Women (not as a broad stroke of a brush that paints ALL women into a "type") but generally I've noticed they do like sharped dressed men. Anyhow, why sort of the same? Well, you know about my desires to do more things to my body, but none of those should affect me being able to present myself as a male. So that's why the sort of.

When I get home I also enjoy just relaxing in normal femme wear. Going out and about doesn't really phase me as much as it use to. I still do go out occasionally, but it's usually for a drive or over to an accepting friends house.

Thanks for the thread. BTW, you're totally awesome!

Beauty

I'm not sure this exactly fits here but here goes.

A very wise person (Maria) once told me...

Wear your job (or anything that troubles you) like a loose garment, take it off when it gets too warm or too heavy. Sleep naked.

From that we have, at work, picked up the habit of telling each other, when its obvious that the stress level is getting too high...

"Take off your clothes, go and get naked!"

I think it could work telling yourself to go put on something silky too. It does not matter who the clothing was manufactured for. If it makes you feel better; provides you some comfort, put it on and feel better!

Maybe that's being too simplistic but sometimes you really can just let it be as it is.

Elizabeth,

So it is not a matter of feeling comfortable in female clothing, for me it is a matter of feeling very uncomfortable in male clothing. I don't see it as fulfilling a need. I see it as who I am.

That really sounds like it is a play on words to me. If you feel uncomfortable in male clothing, how can you not see it as meeting a need to dress in female clothing? I am sorry but that does not make sense to me.

Thanks Beauty,

You know your not so bad yourself, BTW, you're awesome too.

Terri,

Sometimes you really can just let it be as it is.

I think that was the point of my post. One may need to understand just what letting it be as it is really means before deciding whether or not to push the envelope.

There have been reports of those of us who have (in my opinion) pushed the envelope, and gone on to surgery only to regret it later.

Love Darlene.

Darlene,

No play on words. The discomfort I feel in men's clothes is allieviated by removing the male clothing. What I meant when I said that I don't see it as a need, I meant that it does not fulfull an anxiety. I don't build up stress if I am not dressed. I can be perfectly comfortable naked.

I was only attempting to show that I am not in the group of crossdressers that dress to relax or to relieve stress. I guess I could have chose better words. Indeed dressing in female clothes fulfills my need to be identified as "not male", to releive me from the social obligations expected of males in our society. However, it is more than just that. It is my preference. I feel normal in female clothes. And I also really enjoy many feminine things, not just clothes. As I have mentioned before. I prefer my house to be decorated more feminine. Lacy, frilly bed linens, soft colors, stuffed animals. So? if preferences are needs, then yes. But to me it is the same as asking oneself why thier favorite color is thier favorite color? Does ones favorite color fulfill a need? It must, but I am not sure what need that is.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Yes Elizabeth, I know of what you speak. You have taken a slightly different path than some of us and in some areas passed a lot of us by. Then again some of us have reached a point in our travels that we are confortable at and choose to remain there. Then there is Julie who has chosen to take the final leap of faith and we all wish her well I am sure. I also agree that a lot of us do not yet understand what or where we are and it really seems to trouble some of us. Others, Virginia included, may not quit understand where we are, but are definitley enjoying the trip. Some unfortunately are simply rolling down a hill hitting every rock and tree and really being bruised by the whole episode and that is most unfortunate, not only for them but us as well as they are our sisters and in some instances, which shall go unnamed we have not seemed to help them ---- but, we tried and perhaps in the future our help we come full circle and make a difference in their lives. You know the thread for the one wish? Well I have another "one wish." and that is that my sisters here know in there heart of hearts what a blessing that they are to each other and that this is the major reason that we are here in the "veil of tears." To love each other and lend a helping hand as often as we can.
Girls, I am sorry, I guess I should stop "waxing philosophical." But seeing the good that we do and having been the receiptant of a lot of the love generated here I just have to keep reinforcing what a great place this is for girls like us!
Love you all.
Virginia

Hi all,

I am normally satisfied with dressing for a couple of hours in the evening.

An extra day off recently gave me the luxury of keeping nail polish on overnight. I really enjoyed lounging around in nightgown and satin robe the next morning, then dressing up for the rest of the day. At mealtime, I took off outerclothes, ate wearing lingerie under a robe, then changed outfits afterward. After almost 24 hours, I felt I had to take a "boy break" so off came the nail polish and femme clothing for a couple of hours, I went out on an errand, then home, another femme outfit but no nail polish.

Each of us is an individual, and our crossdressing needs and desires encompass a wide spectrum.

This forum lets each of us exchange the extent of our individual needs and desires in a very accepting environment.

Just my view,

Jadeanne

Hi girls,

a fascinating thread, and one kind of close to my own heart I have been thinking about the "duality" question a little, and have really enjoyed reading this. Only thing is, I wish I had something a bit more insightful to give to you all on it!

It seems to me that a large number of us do kind of have this "other self", by which I mean that we are content to dress as males sometimes, and females at others. For other girls here, they identify as female 24/7, and so the duality doesn't really apply for them, they identify that way all the time. At the other end of the scale, there must be girls on the site who identify male almost all the time, but dress just now and then.

This made me wonder if that level of "duality", is a function of how frequently a girl dresses? (Probably a gross over simplification, but I wanted to explore the theory). Do 24/7 girls indetify femme 100%, or do they have a male voice talk to them quitely sometimes, the way that Katy does to me sometimes when I am identifying male? Conversely, are there girls who hardly dress at all, but identify femme most of the time?

I know all that is only conjecture, but thought it might be a question worth asking?

For my part, I guess I can identify most strongly with the way Virginia describes herself, in the way that Katy-Jane is present inside me. And I enjoyed your waxing philosophical by the way Virginia, please don't stop it! Also, given how much this site has helped me, I never tire of reading comments about how cool it is.

Also Terri (SO), thanks for your post in this thread, whether it fitted or not, I got alot from it, thankyou.

see you later sisters (staurday actually!) ,

Katy-Jane

Hi all,

Katy-Jane,

You wish you had something insightful to contribute to the thread? Oy! But you do! And you did. Before reading your post above, I swear I had never actually given much thought to the possibility of a man considering himself mostly female, but not dressing much. To my mind, one goes hand in hand with the other. But, now that I think about it, I'm not so sure.

This is where I think I am, regarding the "balancing act": although I don't dress often (and, here, I mean "to dress fully en femme, to present as female"), I do realize that there are a great many traits and features (if not most) of my personality--of who I am, gender-unspecified--that are considered by others to be feminine. (It's a bit odd, really; I've been told that, because of my gender inclinations, I'm both "not a real man" and "not a real woman"... to which I always reply, "maybe not, but I'm a real human being." )

I guess I don't make too much of an issue about which gender I feel myself to be inside because I have no real pressing to need to present as female. What's a bit irksome sometimes, though, is that, although I don't feel a pressing need to present as male either, people try to convince me that my anatomical sex requires me to do so. No, sorry, it doesn't. I have a say in the matter. Those that would tell me I don't are blind to their own possibilities as human beings, let alone to mine.

Cool thread. Thanks, Darlene.

Love,
CJ

Hi girls,

Katy-Jane,

I have to start out by saying that I am having a very difficult time understanding all of this, particularly the part about having different aspects of ones personality to draw upon.

I do dress 24/7 now, and I have known personally that I was transexual or at least transgendered since I was around 9 years old. I have had different personalities, but because one was a completely made up one.

I will try to explain. I have never identified with men/boys. I have never felt the physical competitiveness that most boys/men feel. I was not good at sports, and had no desire to compete physically. I was intimidated into joining football and wrestling by my brothers, but I quit both of those. I was too afraid to hit anyone in football, and was too weak to defeat anyone in wrestling. Also, I lift the least amount of weight, and was the slowest runner. Not doing the traditional "boy" things put me on the outside. I used an eye injury as my excuse not to have to play sports, and got my eye doctor to give me a note that excused me from Physical Education for all of Jr High, and High School.

Also a string of accidents when I was 13 and 14 left me with a broken leg, and two shattered elbows in three different mishaps. I just was not very coordinated. Not to offend anyone, but I throw like a girl. I still can not throw a ball very far, or very hard, I have never skipped a rock on water, and I also can not catch. When I coached little league football, all the 11-12 year old kids could throw farther than me, and everyone knew to hand me the ball, because there was little chance I would catch it'.

Because of these things, and working in "The Man's World", I had to invent a male persona. I don't like beer, I am not interested in cars, I don't hunt because killing animals makes me feel bad. I just don't have the macho killer instinct. The one thing I had in common with most men, was that I loved looking at, and talking about women. However again, I did not do the standard degrading of women, and openly admitted that I loved my wife, and she was more important to me, than any of them. So it seemed that no matter what I did, I just could not see eye to eye with most men.

So I became a forman at an early age, and put myself in a position where I could use being a boss, as an excuse not to associate with the people who worked under me, and used the men that worked under me, as an excuse not to associate with the people above me. This was all masked in a shield of high job performance, being a know it all, arguing any point to the death, and being extremely unemotional in the workplace, or anywhere that I was in contact with other men. This made me appear as an abitious, hard working type A personality, alpha male, who took no prisoners.

But the real me, Elizabeth, was always right there with me. In private, that is who I was. To my children, I was Elizabeth. And to my wife. She openly admits that she married me because I was a kind, gentle man.

So once I became disabled and could no longer work, I really did not need the fake personna any more. So when I came out of the closet, and accepted who I really was, It was easy to be me, because all I had to do, was to stop pretending to be someone else.

My personality is fully intergrated. Whatever male personality traits I have, or female peronality traits I have, I have not tried to distinguish, and really is of little importance to me, because I draw on all of my resources all the time, without distinction of where it came from.

That is why I am having so much trouble understanding those of you who feel that there is definite divisions in your personalities, and which ones you draw upon, for different things. I am Elizabeth, I can only draw upon that, my collective knowledge and experiences. My emotions, my intellect, and my intangibles, are all just one thing to me. My phony male personality had no substance, it was just a projection, like a hologram. So there is nothing there to draw from.

I hope that helps explain what I am feeling, but I am not so sure that other 24/7 dressers will agree with how I feel.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Hi Elizabeth,
I.we ( Virginia) may not understand eachother, but that is in the fact that we as human beings are a very, very complex organism. None of the "sciences" can claim to understand much at all of how we function and the diversity is actually pretty amazing - you and I are only one example of the divergence of the complexity. I still enjoy my sport of powerlifting, although my training partner is a woman who holds several world records I compete physically and mentally as a male. Since I hold several World, National and American records and I love the sport I can train a a male, but when it comes to the emotional, empathic (if that's a word), love and caring aspect of my existence Virginia is the strength of me. It is not a matter of who is "in charge" at any given time, but in a given situation the "necessary" personnal will rise to the occassion. I know it may sound strange, even weird, but there have been times in my training when I have actually "heard/felt" Virginia exorting me to lift a certain weight! It is like I hear her voice saying, "come on, you can do it - make me proud of you!" Kinda of scary in a way, but to have the female personnal rooting for the male to achieve some goal is ... wel it's interesting to say the least. And no I am not hearing voices and there in lies the conflict with understanding, ie my sis, Darlene, it is just difficult to understand, but it works for me. I may not understand it and maybe I don't want to take the time to study it right now. You have taken a road that you are happy and seeming content with to let Elizabeth be Elizabeth 24/7 and you are comfortable with that so don't let anyone take that away from you, just as I may not understand all about me/Virginia, but I am very comfortable with what and where we are so on we go on "our"" Magical Mystery Tour" and no one will take that away from me either.
Love ya,
Virginia